Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose the opener 4-3

[Canadian Finn]

Love the Leafs.

Hate this team.

 

[rocketman588]

While I'm not sure he was being out-coached (players suitable to be on the ice weren't executing), if he was out-coached, he was out-coached by a rookie pro coach who hadn't coached higher than Peewee until 8 months ago.

You're job as a coach is to get them to be ready to execute. They have an Uber talented top 3 that disappeared against a team that rolled out a 21 year old undrafted rookie. The power play was disgusting as well

He's been outcoached by worse unfortunately

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Really not as much as people think, they just are highlighted more.

We can look at last season for example. At the beginning of the season (for the first 8 games), it was rough. That was hardly exclusive to him (Marner only had like one point in that stretch for example) but he was benched for a couple of games in the end of October and came back at the beginning of November.

After that scratching at the beginning of the season, he had a 2.53 GA/60 at ES the rest of the way (60+ games) which was better than anyone except Dermott and Sandin (both played in sheltered roles). Out of 168 eligible defensemen who played at least 750 minutes from that point on, Holl was 58th in GA/60 and a good number of the guys ahead of him were guys like Dermott and Sandin (i.e. not playing nearly as tough of a role as he was).

It wasn't like he was getting saved by goaltending either... His xGA/60 was 2.32 which was only beat by Giordano, Liljegren, and Sandin. In the playoffs, it was 1.64 GA/60 with a 1.99 xGA/60 in 5 games.

So yes, he does make mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes lead to goals against. Same can be said about literally every defenseman in the NHL. I will take being good for the vast majority of the game and occasionally making costly mistakes when the overall bulk of his work results in him being a major net positive. Especially out of a 2 mill RD who is a high end PKer and plays 20+ tough minutes a night.

And therein lies the problem. Anyone who thinks Holl is a top-4 defenceman who should be playing those kind of minutes, including high-leverage minutes late in games, is sadly lacking in hockey knowledge. He shouldn't be in the top 4 because he does have a propensity for making dumb mistakes. Those times when he makes these mistakes can be minimized by lowering his minutes and pairing him, with someone other than Muzzin, on the third pairing. I agree that for most games he does an adequate job in being a big body who has a good stick and disrupt plays. I also agree that we tend to remember the really senseless plays he makes (remember the playoff pick on Tavares' anulled goal, the low IQ play in the last few minutes, the awkward positioning on the winning goal). I don't share your assessment of how he played the entire game, I thought he was clumsy, awkward, and generally made poor decisions throughout the game. It's not his fault the coach feels compelled to play him too much.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Love the Leafs.

Hate this team.

Fair and reasonable way of putting it.

Something's got to give.

 

[Jojalu]

Longest rivalry in hockey history, first game of the new season, new players, hopeful of a redemption arc, etc.

Just another game 'cos that suits a "certain narrative".

There is not a lot of redemption arc 2 years after the playoff loss. That would have been last year.

I don't find game 1 any more or less important than game 32 or 54.

The Leafs will lose somewhere between 20 and 30 games.

 

[leafsfan5]

Mathews was horrible. Complete non factor kinda like against Tampa in game 7 last year.

Doesn’t drive offense imo

The MVP of the NHL doesn't drive offense? What?

He had one bad game

 

[Jojalu]

Longest rivalry in hockey history, first game of the new season, new players, hopeful of a redemption arc, etc.

Just another game 'cos that suits a "certain narrative".

Also.

Well played. Lol

 

[JT AM da real deal]

1st game of season, against da Habs and playing the bottom team in East and there was no excitement, no effort, no jump, no speed nothing .. basically got lunch fed to them .. disgusting display on TV (hard to see full game on TV so will reserve judgement to tonight when i see live)

Looks to me like we are getting slower, much slower, even from last years team .. you can't use your skill when you can't keep up to game pace as quite a few non player stats guys on here don't understand

Rielly and Brodie look fine .. but after that bottom 4 D are flat out not at NHL level speed (and really not even close to it) .. everyone expects it from Sandin and Holl who never could skate with any pace at all .. but now we see Muzzy and Gio who looked like turtles too .. I hope it is just Muzzy and Gio getting into game shape as vets (as that does occur with vet pro defenders) .. but bottom line if it is father time kicking in here then this team is doomed .. you can't win a pro hockey game with that bottom 4 it is mid AHL level quality at best

On positive side Murray held team in game in 2nd with a couple 10 bellers when Leafs were flat out killed .. people blaming him on game winning goal OMG .. Muzzy puts a beautiful pass to Habs and then Holl completely screens his tender .. when a D tries to block shot in slot you must save it otherwise you are leaving your tender in an impossible situation

Did anyone see JT pick up his speed (sorry JT is a great guy) but lets stop with Leaf BS media press please .. he played a grinder game with some skill which is exactly what he can offer .. but stop with da bS please

Willy was flying which was great to see in game 1 really only guy with flat out speed and skill we got .. Kerfoot has it too but hockey sense is not in his tool kit .. hard to win in pro hockey with only 2 forwards with speed

I will find out for sure tonight at Hot Stove pre game but looks like Matty came into camp way overweight AGAIN .. where is Leaf media types with breaking this one .. you can't play a pro hockey game with your 2 Cs playing at that pace .. sorry it will never ever work

 

[Budz]

Nylander and Malgin were easily the two best Leafs in that game.

As I clearly stated. They are good players.

I don’t believe our middle 6 have an identity, aside from high skilled and not physical.

I think that is an issue.

 

[Marmoset]

You're job as a coach is to get them to be ready to execute. They have an Uber talented top 3 that disappeared against a team that rolled out a 21 year old undrafted rookie. The power play was disgusting as well

He's been outcoached by worse unfortunately

One thing I am concerned about is hearing the coach say "unacceptable" after a single game. If you're saying things like that already, what are you going to say if the team is struggling five or ten games in?

We can also mention that the coach is responsible for the defence pairing which played a large role in the mess at the end.

The reaction of the coach might worry me more than anything else about the game since I never put too much stock into the season opener.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

The worst thing about last night was that the team erupted all the anger/frustration for fans.

This management group is so tone-deaf.

Why didn't Keefe tear a strip off them after the 1st period?

 

[Mess]

Leafs offense should have eaten up and spit out Montreal's young Dcore with essential 4 rookies on it, but instead it was Montreal's speed and skill that sliced and diced up Leafs aging and slowing Dcore for many odd man rushes and turnovers.

The team certainly didn't insulate Murray in his 1st game as a Leaf but instead hung him out to dry on the evening. Poor game plan and preparation along with uninspired play by the Leafs certainly a factor in this one.

 

[Trapper]

at least he calls the team out in the media...

The fact this needed to be done in the very first game is disappointing.
Sure people will say it’s only the 1st game, but after 6 1st round losses, a summer of saying “the process”, we’ve learned our lesson, hungry, etc. this team continues to make the same statement. Sure they will get their points but trust us earned, and they aren’t trustworthy. The GM has no contract, questions surround goaltending, depth, salary structure and this is your statement. Keefe “we didn’t deserve to win”.
Again, disappointing.

 

[1specter]

I find it odd that people are lumping in Giordano with the other bums on defense last night, just because he's old lol. He played pretty well, wasn't on the ice for any goals against, was on the ice for 2 of the Leafs goals and also controlled his share of shots and chances.

Yeah he's not lightning quick but his skating still looks pretty sharp and he's generally in position. Saw a few instances where he was able to cut across quickly and take away potential chances from Habs forwards.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Very disappointed with Matthews & Marner last night. Just so nonchalant and lacked any sense of urgency.
They don't seem to have another gear when the games are important, they're floating around waiting for chances to come to them.

They'll score tons of points on lazy Monday nights against the Yotes or Kraken though so there's that lol.

 

[Canadian Finn]

Very disappointed with Matthews & Marner last night. Just so nonchalant and lacked any sense of urgency.
They don't seem to have another gear when the games are important, they're floating around waiting for chances to come to them.

They'll score tons of points on lazy Monday nights against the Yotes or Kraken though so there's that lol.

but just wait until we see what they are wearing when they enter the arena.

that, of course, is all that is important.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

I find it odd that people are lumping in Giordano with the other bums on defense last night, just because he's old lol. He played pretty well, wasn't on the ice for any goals against, was on the ice for 2 of the Leafs goals and also controlled his share of shots and chances.

Yeah he's not lightning quick but his skating still looks pretty sharp and he's generally in position. Saw a few instances where he was able to cut across quickly and take away potential chances from Habs forwards.

Gio and Brodie are our best Dmen, I honestly don't know what the f*** Rielly is doing half the time but he seems to be convinced that he is Cale Makar and he couldn't be more wrong.

 

[Apex Predator]

You're job as a coach is to get them to be ready to execute. They have an Uber talented top 3 that disappeared against a team that rolled out a 21 year old undrafted rookie. The power play was disgusting as well

He's been outcoached by worse unfortunately

This narrative has been around since Babcock days.

 

[LeafLoyalist]

Ya it's just game 1 of 82, but i look at the intangibles and habits.

1. They did not challenge the 4 rookie D, soft forecheck
2. Not enough getting inside the dots.
3. Most of Toronto's goals were scored on Montreal rookie mistakes
4. Most of Montreal goals were scored on Toronto veteran mistakes (Mathews Goal 1&2), Goal 3 1 Montreal player beating 3 leaf players on boards (Reilly/Kampf/Engvall) Goal 4 Holl pinching Muzzin giving it up
5. Murray was not the stone wall goalie Toronto needs with the 6 D in front of him
6. Keefe too wound up for this team, feeling the pressure for sure
7. Same attitude from stars, have to score goals, pad the stats....need to focus on team play, strong board play, making right decisions when to stay high if D pinches....simple stuff

Need to change mind set, everyone focusing on mathews scoring 70...why do we care!!!!! Get the team playing the right way, so much pressure on Marner mathews Tavares to score, but maybe Fans and Media should be pressuring these guys to tighten up defensively and play the right way....ask the Tampa Bay Lightning of 2018/2019.

 

[Notsince67]

Very disappointed with Matthews & Marner last night. Just so nonchalant and lacked any sense of urgency.
They don't seem to have another gear when the games are important, they're floating around waiting for chances to come to them.

They'll score tons of points on lazy Monday nights against the Yotes or Kraken though so there's that lol.

So Matthews was a non-factor but I don't get people calling out Marner. He set up a beauty for the first goal and was buzzing around the net keeping the puck in play all game.
I guess it's just easy to be lazy and make these kinds of comments

 

[CDN24]

They received a first round pick

Keeps playing like that they may receive another one at the deadline. Trade him back to Calgary at the deadline with Max retention for another 1st.

 

[stealth1]

They always just find strange ways to fall flat on their faces in dramatic fashion, like the horrible no show vs Buffalo at the Outdoor Game, dropping 2x games to the Canadiens last year, that 8-1 loss to Tampa before the first round matchup. They just have high highs and big party wins and then they just track meet it other times.

IMO it comes down to during the regular season they rely on their talent to win many games. That only goes so far. I rarely see many nights where they out work the opposition. It's why they fail in the playoffs.

 

[All Mod Cons]

1st game of season, against da Habs and playing the bottom team in East and there was no excitement, no effort, no jump, no speed nothing .. basically got lunch fed to them .. disgusting display on TV (hard to see full game on TV so will reserve judgement to tonight when i see live)

Looks to me like we are getting slower, much slower, even from last years team .. you can't use your skill when you can't keep up to game pace as quite a few non player stats guys on here don't understand

Rielly and Brodie look fine .. but after that bottom 4 D are flat out not at NHL level speed (and really not even close to it) .. everyone expects it from Sandin and Holl who never could skate with any pace at all .. but now we see Muzzy and Gio who looked like turtles too .. I hope it is just Muzzy and Gio getting into game shape as vets (as that does occur with vet pro defenders) .. but bottom line if it is father time kicking in here then this team is doomed .. you can't win a pro hockey game with that bottom 4 it is mid AHL level quality at best

On positive side Murray held team in game in 2nd with a couple 10 bellers when Leafs were flat out killed .. people blaming him on game winning goal OMG .. Muzzy puts a beautiful pass to Habs and then Holl completely screens his tender .. when a D tries to block shot in slot you must save it otherwise you are leaving your tender in an impossible situation

Did anyone see JT pick up his speed (sorry JT is a great guy) but lets stop with Leaf BS media press please .. he played a grinder game with some skill which is exactly what he can offer .. but stop with da bS please

Willy was flying which was great to see in game 1 really only guy with flat out speed and skill we got .. Kerfoot has it too but hockey sense is not in his tool kit .. hard to win in pro hockey with only 2 forwards with speed

I will find out for sure tonight at Hot Stove pre game but looks like Matty came into camp way overweight AGAIN .. where is Leaf media types with breaking this one .. you can't play a pro hockey game with your 2 Cs playing at that pace .. sorry it will never ever work

All the Leafs put on so much weight in the offseason they can hardly skate.

 

[Leafblooded]

he had two primary assists tonight, will still give you 80 points on the year.. he's really effective, I don't understand the hate on him at all. Where was our 60 goal scorer last night?

Cuz he's as effective as RNH for double the money

 

[Hellcat]

The worst thing about last night was that the team erupted all the anger/frustration for fans.

This management group is so tone-deaf.

Why didn't Keefe tear a strip off them after the 1st period?

They looked like they had an all nighter the night before, they were a mess. Lets be honest though the Leafs last night were around 30% to 40% of what their play can be. Montreal was at 90% of their potential abilities. Last night was Montreal's Stanly Cup. For us it was just a game we will forget in a few days.