Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose again to poverty franchise

[SeaOfBlue]

marner and jt were so bad

jt is regressing to last year levels. even marner can't help.

Marner hasn't been all that great since his point streak ended either (and I understand he still has 4 points in the 6 games since then).

It is not uncommon for that to happen with Marner's linemates, including Matthews. The puck is designed to go through Marner so when it is going well, it goes very well and when it doesn't, then it is hard to change it up unless you decide to take the puck out of Marner's hands.

A couple of posts doesn't help either.

6 games where they are still dominating possession and getting good chances is not enough to take the puck out of his hands when he is coming off of a historic point streak.

The nice thing is that the depth guys have stepped up. Engvall is on a 4 game point streak. Kerfoot and Jarnkrok have been excellent. Kampf is humming along. Holmberg is a pleasant surprise. ZAR has mostly been useless but oh well.

I actually didn't hate Marner, Tavares, or Nylander last game. No points but they at least looked interested. I even think Rielly had a much better game than he was given credit. There were a few miscues with him on the ice, but he was the main cause of maybe one of them.

Matthews was the real disappointment in that game and our goaltending hasn't been sharp for the past couple of weeks. Matthews is still getting points and playing a strong two way game, but his shot has not been good this year and while he is still pacing 40 this year, that would be the worst pace of his career. He is supposed to be the headliner for this franchise and he has the worst ES goal rates out of the big 4 right now.

Fortunately, I would hope a 16% career shooter does not continue with a sub 11% pace for the entire year, so imagine how scary the Leafs are when Matthews starts to be more dangerous with his shot... but he needs to start bringing that to the table more often.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Over the course of the year. Marner has been our best playmaker, nylander our best goal scorer

Put them together and tell Tavares and Matthews to f*** off till they get their shit together

The only problem with that is that Willy has been our second-best playmaker.

Do we want them on the same line?

 

[Hellcat]

Yep.

A strange anomaly in sports. It's impossible to figure out why over so many years and so many different teams, Arizona just beats the Leafs.

I think TB last to Arizona something like 7-3 last year. IMO the Leafs look structurally better this year.

I'm not about to panic over ONE loss. Since Nov 1, the Leafs are the 2nd best team in the league. 2nd best GA, 2nd best in goal differential, 3rd in Shots against, 3rd in FO lost, 4th in FO%, 4th in SV%, teams like to hit us 1st in Hits against (910 - 2nd place is 788).

This is a really good team, some say Matty is sleep walking through this season, imagine if he wakes up.

Not saying Rielly is a problem but (my opinion) the Leafs look like they are missing something when he plays. Granted he's probably in preseason playing shape while everyone else is in mid season form.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Matthews line was a defensive shit show and does Matthews practice at winning a faceoff?

I'll assume that comment is based on Matthews and Nylander each being -4.

Shows how useless +/- is in small samples.

I'm not sure you can blame the forwards for the defence falling over each other for the first goal. The empty net goals were from turnovers by Tavares (missed an easy pass) and Marner (bad pass to nobody from the corner).

 

[ULF_55]

Watched Netflix and Prime rather than the game.

Didn't have great expectations, and kind of expected a Rielly return letdown.

Less than half the season is done ... can't wait until the team is set.

 

[KPower]

Not gonna panic over one game but our goaltending is starting to become worrisome.

 

[notDatsyuk]

No one can answer which goal was on Murray when challenged.

He was way out of position on goals 5 and 6.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Folks blaming Rielly should take a step back .. you are putting blame where it should not rest .. NO ONE in pro hockey comes back from an injury he had without a conditioning stint of 2-3 games in minors to get back to game speed .. this is all on Dubie/Keefer .. you can't put a guy skating at 75% into a game where 2 points are at stake .. but Dubie/Keefer clearly decided these next 2 games are losses ahead of time .. especially for Rielly whose game is entirely focused on his speed .. a Rielly skating at da level last night won't survive for long in NHL .. which is why i was not a supporter of his long term deal .. not for next 3 years where he will be fine in fact a STEAL really .. but after that he will be a BUYOUT guy which will affect next GM .. Rielly can't be in a lineup without his speed he just flat out is not a defensive player in slightest .. he made Lily look like utter crap last night which he isn't ..but Holl was also back to his normal crap self too .. an out of condition Rielly and Holl in same D lineup is kryptonite .. you could see it in Rielly's face that he was costing team and he knew it (he truly is an amazing leader) .. and Matty with another I don't give 2 craps game too .. oh well it is 1 game folks .. on to da next loss to avs

 

[GQS]

We just signed him to a 7-year extension with a NTC good luck. He ain’t going anywhere and this game isn’t just on Rielly. Our PK has straight up been a disaster. We gave up two PP goals.

Also two of Rielly’s -3’s were from empty nets. Liljegren and Brodie were legit fire fires tonight. At least come correct. People love to change the narrative. Weren’t Rielly and Timmins a big part of giving us a 3-1 lead?

The best time to trade Rielly was a couple of years ago when he still had an extra year left on his 5 million contract and any team that wanted to trade for him it wouldn't be for a pure rental. Leafs probably would've gotten back a pretty good package at that time for him the same way the Yotes are looking for a nice package back for Chychurn with 2 years remaining after this season on his current very nice contract.

Now with his new contract he's definitely not going anywhere anytime soon unless he starts to really play bad and the Leafs want to move out from under his contract the way they did with Phaneuf or Zaitzev.

Lets just hope Rielly improves because for better or for worse he's going to be here for at least the next few years so all we can do is hope his play improves so that he won't hurt the Leafs when he's playing 20+ mins a night.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think TB last to Arizona something like 7-3 last year. IMO the Leafs look structurally better this year.

I'm not about to panic over ONE loss. Since Nov 1, the Leafs are the 2nd best team in the league. 2nd best GA, 2nd best in goal differential, 3rd in Shots against, 3rd in FO lost, 4th in FO%, 4th in SV%, teams like to hit us 1st in Hits against (910 - 2nd place is 788).

This is a really good team, some say Matty is sleep walking through this season, imagine if he wakes up.

Not saying Rielly is a problem but (my opinion) the Leafs look like they are missing something when he plays. Granted he's probably in preseason playing shape while everyone else is in mid season form.

Unless Rielly is telling the forwards to not play defense when he is on the ice, I don't think he is the problem.

Also, Rielly was on the ice for 8 5 on 5 goals against in the first 5 games. Partially on him, but also some bad goaltending performances and team defense early on as well. After that initial stretch, he was only on the ice for 8 5 on 5 goals in the next 15 games.

It is not like we are giving up goals like crazy with him on the ice. He was shutting guys down before his injury too. But forward defense has been a little bit sloppy the past couple of games.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

It was a terrible gamble at that, in what world does that puck get through on the boards when there's two Coyotes on the wall? Even if they both fail to block the pass, the guy receiving it now has two Coyotes forwards within 5 feet of him and a defenseman coming to close him off, there's nowhere good to go with that puck.

0 upside big downside gamble at a crucial time.

Absolutely correct. And that's another problem, his decision making with regards to when to go, when not to, passing into high danger spots, not taking the man out along the boards....all deficiencies on the defensive side. If there was greater offensive production maybe we could overlook some of these, but zero goals with PP1 time for most of the season? Very poor shot selection on the PP, not looking to put it into the slot for a tip or a rebound. He is showing us right now why when he was injured, the team defence and making the simple plays all led to more success. Pity, cause I really like him as a person and a leader.

Honestly, I'd look to trade him for an upgrade in the top 6.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Folks blaming Rielly should take a step back .. you are putting blame where it should not rest .. NO ONE in pro hockey comes back from an injury he had without a conditioning stint of 2-3 games in minors to get back to game speed .. this is all on Dubie/Keefer .. you can't put a guy skating at 75% into a game where 2 points are at stake .. but Dubie/Keefer clearly decided these next 2 games are losses ahead of time .. especially for Rielly whose game is entirely focused on his speed .. a Rielly skating at da level last night won't survive for long in NHL .. which is why i was not a supporter of his long term deal .. not for next 3 years where he will be fine in fact a STEAL really .. but after that he will be a BUYOUT guy which will affect next GM .. Rielly can't be in a lineup without his speed he just flat out is not a defensive player in slightest .. he made Lily look like utter crap last night which he isn't ..but Holl was also back to his normal crap self too .. an out of condition Rielly and Holl in same D lineup is kryptonite .. you could see it in Rielly's face that he was costing team and he knew it (he truly is an amazing leader) .. and Matty with another I don't give 2 craps game too .. oh well it is 1 game folks .. on to da next loss to avs

Players of Rielly's caliber never go on conditioning stints.

And he didn't even look like he needed one. He didn't look out of it at all.

 

[Twine Tickler]

it is kind of funny how the GWG from last years game in AZ was almost the exact same as the GWG from yesterday. Game tied, we had more then enough high quality chances to go ahead, including at least 3 posts, and for whatever reason you just knew AZ was going to win that game. Not just win, but win in regulation. Off of a pretty meh 2 on 1 goal TBH. Lilly played that terribly, and Murr was just not up to the task. Credit to Crouse for freezing Murray on the pass across, but that's just a terrible sequence start to finish from all 5 skaters and goalie for us.

It's tough to blame just Lilly and Murr on that play as they were put in a tough spot trying to defend a 2 on 1. But thats just a moment in that game where we need one or both of those guys to make a play, and neither of them did. Also, I know a lot of people want to blame Mo on that play, but if you look at the unforced grenade that Lilly hucked directly into his skates going D2D right before Mo had to quickly play it up the wall, there wasn't much else Mo could do with that puck. He was put in a tough spot. Not to mention you got Matthews and Willy completely blowing the zone and not giving Lilly any outlet on the initial touch of the puck. So it was really all 5 guys responsible for that play. Just a comedy of errors really.

nonetheless, it was eerily similar to Ryan Dzingel's GWG from a year ago.



It is kind of remarkable how Arizona has seemed to convert on almost every chance they've generated on us in the last 4 games.

We played far from a clean game yesterday, but it should have been a game we got away with. I guess that is just the hockey gods taking a big old dump in our skates for not coming in with our best effort and underestimating this team... once again

 

[GQS]

Coyote fan coming in peace. I was born and raised in Alberta and cheered for the Leafs when I was young, the Keon era. Moved to Edmonton and cheered for the Oilers when they became part of the NHL. Now I live in Phoenix, and I cheer for my home town Yotes. It saddens me to read all these negative and snarky posts from you Leaf fans, who has the richest franchise that has won jack shit the last half century. As a franchise the Yotes have had their issues, but finally we are on the right track with a new owner and building on the horizon. It would be nice to have friendly banter among posters, instead of acting like little kids not getting their way. Anyway, back to the game. It was a very entertaining game and the best team won on this night. The difference between winning and losing in the NHL is very small and any team can win on a given night. You guys have a good day and hope to meet you in the SC finals in a few years.

Well it always sucks when your team loses to a team that on paper shouldn't be beating you. As for the Leafs not winning anything for decades its kind of hard to do so when for much of that time your franchise is owned by one of the all time worst owners in NHL history and then after he was gone the Leafs for a long time didn't have a really good management team in place to steer the ship in the right direction.

We had some GMs who made some decent moves here and there, but overall none of them seemed to be really good and hardly any of them were able to draft really well it seemed. This is why I like Dubas and want him to keep being the Leafs' GM despite the lack of playoff success to date because even without a playoff series win, he's still BY FAR done the most to turn the team around in recent years as well as giving the franchise a decent pool of prospects to look forward to in the next few years.

And also I am rooting for the Yotes to succeed and do well in the desert. It would be nice to see the NHL do well in a market that many feel wouldn't work and prove them wrong.

 

[Gilmour1996]

Hit them often and hit them hard and certain players fold up like cheap lawn chairs. Nick Ritchie played well though.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

About last night's game:

The good - the first period

Thr bad - the rest of the game, Murray, Rielly and the 27 Coyote fans.

Did I mention Rielly and Murray?

The ugly - the arena, lighting and camera angle

 

[SeaOfBlue]

it is kind of funny how the GWG from last years game in AZ was almost the exact same as the GWG from yesterday. Game tied, we had more then enough high quality chances to go ahead, including at least 3 posts, and for whatever reason you just knew AZ was going to win that game. Not just win, but win in regulation. Off of a pretty meh 2 on 1 goal TBH. Lilly played that terribly, and Murr was just not up to the task. Credit to Crouse for freezing Murray on the pass across, but that's just a terrible sequence start to finish from all 5 skaters and goalie for us.

It's tough to blame just Lilly and Murr on that play as they were put in a tough spot trying to defend a 2 on 1. But thats just a moment in that game where we need one or both of those guys to make a play, and neither of them did. Also, I know a lot of people want to blame Mo on that play, but if you look at the unforced grenade that Lilly hucked directly into his skates going D to D right before Mo had to quickly play it up the wall, there wasn't much else Mo could do with that puck. He was put in a tough spot. Not to mention you got Matthews and Willy completely blowing the zone and not giving Lilly any outlet on the initial touch of the puck. So it was really all 5 guys responsible for that play. Just a comedy of errors really.

nonetheless, it was eerily similar to Ryan Dzingel's GWG from a year ago.



It is kind of remarkable how Arizona has seemed to convert on almost every chance they've generated on us in the last 4 games.

We played far from a clean game yesterday, but it should have been a game we got away with. I guess that is just the hockey gods taking a big old dump in our skates for not coming in with our best effort and underestimating this team, once again...

I think Nylander was doing the right thing. If that pass is clean to Rielly, then he hits Nylander in stride in possession, and he is there with Matthews who is waiting in the neutral zone.

And as soon as things went wrong, he was at least trying to backcheck.

Matthews didn't even move for the puck along the boards and just watched it get intercepted... and then didn't even take another stride until the puck was in the back of the net.

Liljegren made a pair of mistakes. Poor coverage and poor pass to cause the issue in the first place. Rielly going up the boards was really the only thing he could do, and in the position he was in at the time, the pinch to try and prevent the 2-on-1 was a risky but probably the only move he had to prevent a good chance. If he stops that pass, no chance against. If he tries to recover, then the pass is still likely completed and there is still a 2-on-1. He may have some back pressure, but he would still be out of position and would likely need to take a penalty to prevent a chance.

It wasn't a terrible effort, but the execution was off. Recurring theme with ARI for some reason, but it is not like we backed off or didn't put a ton of pressure on Vejmelka. The comments about the game makes me think that people just watched some twitter clips though.

 

[MCR74]

The ugly - the arena, lighting and camera angle

Not to mention the dressing room.

 

[MCR74]

Coyote fan coming in peace. I was born and raised in Alberta and cheered for the Leafs when I was young, the Keon era. Moved to Edmonton and cheered for the Oilers when they became part of the NHL. Now I live in Phoenix, and I cheer for my home town Yotes. It saddens me to read all these negative and snarky posts from you Leaf fans, who has the richest franchise that has won jack shit the last half century. As a franchise the Yotes have had their issues, but finally we are on the right track with a new owner and building on the horizon. It would be nice to have friendly banter among posters, instead of acting like little kids not getting their way. Anyway, back to the game. It was a very entertaining game and the best team won on this night. The difference between winning and losing in the NHL is very small and any team can win on a given night. You guys have a good day and hope to meet you in the SC finals in a few years.

Without revenue sharing from the Leafs, your team doesn't exist. That's a fact.

If it was up to me, I'd eliminate revenue sharing altogether. If a club can't afford to keep the lights on (or in Arizona's case, a decent arena), they shouldn't be in the business. Why bother supporting a team constantly on the verge of bankruptcy?

As for not winning jack shit, sure the Yotes have gone further in the playoffs, but did all 27 fans in attendance really care?

 

[Gilmour1996]

Without revenue sharing from the Leafs, your team doesn't exist. That's a fact.

If it was up to me, I'd eliminate revenue sharing altogether. If a club can't afford to keep the lights on (or in Arizona's case, a decent arena), they shouldn't be in the business. Why bother supporting a team constantly on the verge of bankruptcy?

As for not winning jack shit, sure the Yotes have gone further in the playoffs, but did all 27 fans in attendance really care?

Also Game Managment from the refs helps Gary's favorite teams (like Arizona), none of which are Canadian, immensely. The game ain't over until Gary says it's over!

 

[Chief Leaf]

Yes Bunting is our sandpaper but when you start to "wake up the giants" like he did last night to try and get things going,..Bunting has to remember that nobody else on our team wants to participate in the rough areas of the game,(except hunt as he was a least trying to be noble in that area)...whereas the yotes were willing to hit our team, take them into the corners and keep our team shy from the "rough road ahead sign"

Last nights game showed me once again our leafs like to play the pretty game and are not made to encounter a hard hitting, lets make the ice smaller type of opponents that are wanting to punish you near the corners/in front of the net/in our zone.

 

[Matthews4Calder]

Did mathews marner Nylander and tavares play?

Matthews is the guy I'm most disappointed with. Thought last year he closed the gap on being the best player but the difference between him and McDavid is night and day as far as consistency and nightly effort.

 

[Apex Predator]

Not gonna panic over one game but our goaltending is starting to become worrisome.

My only concern is it was in the new year goaltending started to slide. I hope this doesn’t happen again this year.

 

[Matthews4Calder]

Also Game Managment from the refs helps Gary's favorite teams (like Arizona), none of which are Canadian, immensely. The game ain't over until Gary says it's over!

Bettman is a tool. Not the first mistake they made. Guy doesn't like to admit failure and thus still supporting some of these teams that should have moved.

 

[Notsince67]

I'll assume that comment is based on Matthews and Nylander each being -4.

Shows how useless +/- is in small samples.

I'm not sure you can blame the forwards for the defence falling over each other for the first goal. The empty net goals were from turnovers by Tavares (missed an easy pass) and Marner (bad pass to nobody from the corner).

The expected goals against were not a function of just a few flubs. They generated a ton at the expense of cheating on defense and it resulted in a lot of chances.