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Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 5-4 in OT

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IrishInOntario said:
No doubt the forward groups are comparable, but your comment about the defense is where the difference lies and that difference is important. Because Rantanen took 9.2 million, Landeskog took 7.0 million, Mackinnon took 6.3 million and Kadri to 4.5 million, they could afford to pay all of Makar, Johnson, Toews and Girard, with Bowen being a rookie, obviously. Murray is the only one in the group who is "meh", but he's paid accordingly.

Top 4 Toronto forwards...
Matthews (11.6m)
Tavares (11.0m)
Marner (10.8m)
Nylander (6.9m)
Total: 40.3 million

Top 4 Colorado forwards...
Rantanen (9.2m)
Landeskog (7.0m)
Mackinnon (6.3m)
Kadri (4.5m)
Total: 27.0 million

That 13 million dollars is a hell of a lot of cap space to build a top notch d-core. They've got some tough choices coming up, but to this point they've managed their cap really well and they've drafted ridiculously good, especially on the back end.
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Good post. Objective, non-aligned fan here.

TML got screwed tonight on a few calls tonight, as I felt the Richie and 2nd Brodie penalties late in the game were pure home-cooking, but the bigger issue was the Leafs taking their foot off the gas and coasting once they were up 4-1. And yes, Austen needs to get his rear off the ice if he was that gassed in the OT.

The other difference is that Avs' D are a HUGE step up on the TML (and on most other teams), with Reilly really being your only elite talent. Makar and Toews have like 22 goals between them, that's crazy, and both are elite puck movers. If COL can find some scoring out of lines 3-4 they would be unstoppable, and a match for TBL.

TML is close to contender status, you guys just need 1-2 top 4 dmen.
 
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As a fan, I'm not as upset about this loss as some others. Leafs could have lost tonight 5-1 and no one would have been surprised.

If they could play as well as they did in the first most of any game, they will win the vast majority.

As I saw this game, they just ran out of gas. Many on here wrote them off before the game even started down three starters so.Campbell holding them in for a point is a valid result on the road.
 
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Getting up that big that early against a good team in their barn is almost a recipe for disaster. Hard to continue pressing when up by three but gotta find a way.
 
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leafsfan5 said:
That difference is also negated when you have elite goaltending. Campbell is a vezina level talent while Keumper isn't close.

Offensively they're roughly equal
Defense sizeable advantage Avs
Goaltending sizeable advantage Leafs

Results in overall similar teams

But yeah in terms of cap they've done well. They've done a great job managing it but got lucky with their best player signing before he exploded (Mackinnon). We'll see how they deal with it when it's time to pay Mack 10+
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The issue is that Colorado can expect to play like that most nights because they're deep and don't rely on any one guy too much. Anytime your built in a manner that requires your goalie to stand on his head regularly for you to be elite, you're asking for trouble in the playoffs. Very few guys are special enough to give you Brodeur / Hasek / Prime Price quality goaltending, night after night. When you're relier on your goalie to be the roster equalizer every night, it often doesn't go well.

If Toronto had been able to manage their cap as well Colorado has to this point, they'd still have Campbell, but they'd have 1-2 major upgrades on the defense core (Holl and Dermott out) and marginal upgrades in their forward depth as well, requiring less spectacular play out of Campbell on the regular.
 
hockeyfanplayer said:
Good post. Objective, non-aligned fan here.

TML got screwed tonight on a few calls tonight, as I felt the Richie and 2nd Brodie penalties late in the game were pure home-cooking, but the bigger issue was the Leafs taking their foot off the gas and coasting once they were up 4-1. And yes, Austen needs to get his rear off the ice if he was that gassed in the OT.

The other difference is that Avs' D are a HUGE step up on the TML (and on most other teams), with Reilly really being your only elite talent. Makar and Toews have like 22 goals between them, that's crazy, and both are elite puck movers. If COL can find some scoring out of lines 3-4 they would be unstoppable, and a match for TBL.

TML is close to contender status, you guys just need 1-2 top 4 dmen.
Click to expand...

Disagree, the Avs D is nowhere near being a "huge" step up on Toronto, the game is played at both ends of the ice.
 
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Brown Dog said:
Getting up that big that early against a good team in their barn is almost a recipe for disaster. Hard to continue pressing when up by three but gotta find a way.
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I think all players in the league know the refs will be looking to help the home team out in that situation, it's a big reason why teams go too passive. Nobody wants to be the guy in the box when the game gets blown. If the league wasn't a joke, it would make for better hockey.
 
hockeyes said:
Disagree, the Avs D is nowhere near being a "huge" step up on Toronto, the game is played at both ends of the ice.
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Makar > Reilly
Johnson > Brodie
Toews > Muzzin
Girard > Sandin
Bowen > Dermott / Liljegren
Murray - Holl

We can be honest here dude. The Avalanche defense is better across the board, and they're still very young and improving.
 
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hockeyfanplayer said:
Good post. Objective, non-aligned fan here.

TML got screwed tonight on a few calls tonight, as I felt the Richie and 2nd Brodie penalties late in the game were pure home-cooking, but the bigger issue was the Leafs taking their foot off the gas and coasting once they were up 4-1. And yes, Austen needs to get his rear off the ice if he was that gassed in the OT.

The other difference is that Avs' D are a HUGE step up on the TML (and on most other teams), with Reilly really being your only elite talent. Makar and Toews have like 22 goals between them, that's crazy, and both are elite puck movers. If COL can find some scoring out of lines 3-4 they would be unstoppable, and a match for TBL.

TML is close to contender status, you guys just need 1-2 top 4 dmen.
Click to expand...
Wonder why we are 10 and 10 against the Avalanche in our last 20 meetings. Seems like they split every year. It is a coin flip.
 
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Maplebeasts said:
They're better offensively. Defensively they suck.
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"Suck" is a huge reach. They're certainly more geared towards the offensive end of things and I'd like to see them move a guy like Girard and replace him with a quality defensive player, but they don't suck.

Defensemen usually hit their prime maturity around 27-28 years old. The defensive part of their game is usually last to mature because they have to add some damn man strength.

Cale Makar (23 years old)
Sam Girard (23 years old)
Bowen Byram (20 years old)
Devon Toews (27 years old)
Ryan Murray (28 years old)
Erik Johnson (33 years old)

They've got some really young guys playing MAJOR minutes. I'm willing to give them a few years before I judge their long term defensive play. I sususpect they'll have to make a move, or two, to optimize the group, but they have lots to work with!
 
IrishInOntario said:
"Suck" is a huge reach. They're certainly more geared towards the offensive end of things and I'd like to see them move a guy like Girard and replace him with a quality defensive player, but they don't suck.

Defensemen usually hit their prime around 27-28 years old. The defensive part of their game is usually last to mature because they have to add some damn man strength.

Cale Makar (23 years old)
Sam Girard (23 years old)
Bowen Byram (20 years old)
Devon Toews (27 years old)
Ryan Murray (28 years old)
Erik Johnson (33 years old)

They've got some really young guys playing MAJOR minutes. I'm willing to give them a few years before I judge their long term defensive play. I sususpect they'll have to make a move, or two, to optimize the group, but they have lots to work with!
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Yes. Their lack of success defensively might be from inexperience but as it is now the Avs are not a good defensive team. A lot of guys on their blueline seem to be great in the offensive zone and in transition but they miss assignments and struggle when they face a good forecheck.
 
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its a long season, there are going to be losses people dont like. this team is still a fantastic team and a team i actually believe will finally break through in the post season. on to the next.
 
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IrishInOntario said:
Makar > Reilly
Johnson > Brodie
Toews > Muzzin
Girard > Sandin
Bowen > Dermott / Liljegren
Murray - Holl

We can be honest here dude. The Avalanche defense is better across the board, and they're still very young and improving.
Click to expand...
Leafs GA per game 2.48 (2nd in the league)
Avs GA per game 3.26 (21st in the league)

The Avs offence is an absolute buzzsaw, it may even be better than Tampa's offence with a healthy Kuch but lets be honest here, there defensive game is only slightly better than the awful run n gun gong show of the Babcock coached Leafs.

They did however destroyed the Leafs defence during the 2nd half of the game, no argument about that.
 
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