Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 4-1. Feel Shame.

[frog]

Babcock has no problem giving players like Komarov, Brown or Hyman 19+ mins a night but it kills him to do that for his star players.

Blows my mind this backwards thinking.

Because playing 19 minutes a night wears out our players and makes them tired... Wouldnt you rather a fully refreshed Mathews out for 17 mintues a game or an exhausted Mathews out for 20 minutes? 82 games in a season we have the depth to not wear out our top players in the first month... Keep the top 9 icetime even until playoffs for f*** sakes

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

I don’t understand Babcocks logic when down ina game. Instead of giving his stars like Matthews, Tavares, Marner and Kadri extra ice time he resorts to playing his rl gud pros more. It’s like sorry guys, you lost the game already

 

[DarkKnight]

On pace for a team record 109 points. This is just terrible.

 

[BTP]

On pace for a team record 109 points. This is just terrible.

Tampa and Boston had more than that last year, we need to win the division. Preferably the entire East.

 

[Mess]

Seems teams have figured out through game plan how to slow down and control Leafs track meet/figure skating team.

Too many skaters and not enough workers and as long as teams stay out of the box and clog up the middle preventing the rush attack the Leafs struggle to score goals as we have seen in the past 2 games.

8 shots after 2 periods against a team that has struggled defensively this year, after getting shutout the game before was very poor effort.

 

[LeafsHome]

The leafs need to get back to what they do best - playing reckless offensive minded hockey

 

[ShaneFalco]

Notes about the schedule and the ebbs and flows of a long year aside, there are some concerns worth pointing out, namely that the Leafs need to get their secondary offense going — which is not news to anyone.
Add up the Leafs’ total goals from Nazem Kadri, Connor Brown, Josh Leivo, Par Lindholm, Tyler Ennis, Andreas Johnsson, Frederik Gauthier, Travis Dermott, Igor Ozghiganov and Martin Marincin — their bottom six forwards and bottom pair on defense — through nine games, and it adds up to only one more than Ron Hainsey’s goals output (two). Jake Gardiner and Nikita Zaitsev have combined for zero goals as well, while Zach Hyman is still looking for his first through nine.

Nazem Kadri is a team-worst minus-seven through nine games, has four assists and zero goals, and on a night when the Leafs didn’t really have any line creating much of anything, Mike Babcock never tried Kadri up with Tavares and Marner even for a shift to spark the team and Kadri individually. That one beats me. We’ve seen the spark it can create and Kadri badly needs to gain some traction at 5-on-5.

Instead, the plan seemed to be to get Nazem Kadri’s line — with Lindholm and Brown — up against the Brayden Schenn, Vlad Tarasenko, and Jaden Schwartz line in an attempt to get Kadri going in a top matchup assignment (also probably a response/message after Matthews’ poor showing against Crosby, given Kadri took on that matchup in the third period of the PIT game).
That line struggles enough to score against third and fourth lines, so I’m not sure how the steep step up in competition was ever going to help get them going. In the 8-9 even strength minutes with Kadri and Brown on the ice against Schenn, Tarasenko and Schwartz, the Leafs didn’t put a single shot on goal.

While it relieved the Matthews line of some of the matchup burden, Matthews, Kadri and Tavares played 12 minutes and change at 5v5, with Tavares ranking third in that order. You want your big guns playing more and getting into more of a rhythm than that.
To give Babcock some benefit of the doubt, this isn’t an easy situation to sort through as far as allocating the minutes and keeping everyone happy and going, but Connor Brown playing 35 seconds more than John Tavares at 5v5 is not a good look.

Game #9 Review: St. Louis Blues 4 vs. Toronto Maple Leafs 1 | Maple Leafs Hotstove

 

[Mess]

The leafs need to get back to what they do best - playing reckless offensive minded hockey

Pond hockey days are often short lived as teams, systems and defense starts to kick up as the games progress. Pond hockey is not a system.

Leafs need to compete hard and win more puck battles.

Skill without will = nil

 

[hullsy47]

Wow just Wow a week ago everybody is picking apart Nylander, dumping on Sparks, we were 6-1 now lose two games yeah I know not pretty but for F sakes I can't believe some of the crap that I'm reading, Fire Babcock, this guy sucks, that guy sucks, the defense sucks, Marners too small, Kadri is useless etc and etc. freakin negative like Ive ever seen, our team only 3 seasons ago was a complete rebuild Nylander, Marner, and Mathews accelerated huge for this teams success also adding a goaltender, they are still pimple faced kids that got us to the playoffs 2 years consecutive, teams are now aware if they play the hard fore check and heavy on the body with no space on our team that the our team get rattled and make poor decisions with the puck and take away our speed, we also have alot of guys who have dropped in their play not firing on all cylinders and not willing to get their nose dirty losing a lot of puck battles and not willing to take a hit to make the play with turn overs between the blue lines. This team needs to get hungrier to win with full 60 minute effort, the 4th line is the only ones that put forth that high intensity fore check and pursuit of the puck in recent games while the rest did it in small amounts that is not going to win hockey games. They are going to have to figure how to combat the heavy fore check Boston did the same to us last playoffs, Everybody even the skilled guys are going to have to take hits and get their nose into the grey areas and win puck battles to have any success, thinking that you can out score your opponent with no work ethic will not last I think it was Babcock who stated this earlier on. The hockey insider Idiots who said this is a Stanley cup contender team this year made everybodies head fat and put a lot of undue pressure, thats all they accomplished.

plus this nylander contract squabble has opened our eyes ,I don't think they ll be a salary cap issue at all
these guys either back up the pre season hype ,or get paid accordingly ,
but I think making tavaras the captain will help ,the kids are still too pouty to be leaders

 

[Notsince67]

I'm on the fence regarding Babcock still. However, I really don't think that our secondary player should be getting more TOI over our supposed star players.

You've got to shorten your bench and double shift your best players when you are behind in a game.

I saw that but I assumed the leafs were showcasing somebody for a trade

 

[Peasy]

Because playing 19 minutes a night wears out our players and makes them tired... Wouldnt you rather a fully refreshed Mathews out for 17 mintues a game or an exhausted Mathews out for 20 minutes? 82 games in a season we have the depth to not wear out our top players in the first month... Keep the top 9 icetime even until playoffs for **** sakes

Ovechkin 20+ mins, Kuzy 18:30+ mins, Backstrom 19:40 mins last season during the regular season, they were totally worn out in the playoffs...

Crosby 19:30 and 20:20, Malkin 18:40 and 19:20 when they won their 2 cups.

Not keeping the top 9 icetime even until playoffs really hurt them...

 

[hullsy47]

I just want some heat on Babcock. That’s all.

He’s seriously looking more and more like a dinosaur in today’s game.

how so ,marner looked slow or hurt last night ,he hsad about 30 games like that last year .
Mathews will need another ten games to get used of being molested all night.
refs will call it again ,he ll be fine

 

[Clark4Ever]

We've played the most games in the league so far. I can't help but wonder if our effort the last couple of games is the result of fatigue. We just haven't had the same level of energy.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Alright after taking the night to get over it, I've boiled it down to a couple of things about the game:

- The Leafs were not doing a good job winning those 1 on 1 battles last night off the puck
- The Leafs were not winning enough face-offs
- Those two factors compounded on each other a bit
- Andy was fine, gave them a chance to get some momentum back with some saves
- Marner and the unit need to be more assertive on the PP and move the puck with some more muster. Teams are able to counteract the puck movement right now because it's not being moved quick enough

Overall though what I saw was a Blue team that was tightening the screws defensive, into mid-season form. That's relevant because the Leafs have been used to this early-season loose defensive play where they could make a lot of cross ice passes for nice goals and now those plays are becoming unavailable. They have to get back to basics and get pucks on net.

Also watching Matthews' in person makes you realize how much of a beast he is.

 

[frog]

Ovechkin 20+ mins, Kuzy 18:30+ mins, Backstrom 19:40 mins last season during the regular season, they were totally worn out in the playoffs...

Crosby 19:30 and 20:20, Malkin 18:40 and 19:20 when they won their 2 cups.

Not keeping the top 9 icetime even until playoffs really hurt them...

All those guys you mentioned are playing under 20 minutes (Aside from Crosby) Seems like 17-20 is the normal icetime for a franchise player.. If we dont give Kadri icetime he will not be good, you can already see Kadri isnt the same because of his reduced role.. The challenge is for everyone to have a big enough role to produce. Play Tavares and Mathews over 20 minutes might as well trade Kadri because he wont be effective with 3rd line minutes

 

[Budsfan]

Seems teams have figured out through game plan how to slow down and control Leafs track meet/figure skating team.

Too many skaters and not enough workers and as long as teams stay out of the box and clog up the middle preventing the rush attack the Leafs struggle to score goals as we have seen in the past 2 games.

8 shots after 2 periods against a team that has struggled defensively this year, after getting shutout the game before was very poor effort.

This is our Achilles heel, teams are using the trap and although stretch passes can sometimes break through a trap they have to be pin point accurate and I'm not seeing that and many simply become icing infractions, which brings the puck back to our zone.

Our team is built for speed and like Mess has pointed out in his post, not enough muckers, I think we can change it a bit and try to skate through a trap but again passes have to be acurate.

I like Kadri being given the task of stopping the opposing teams best players but they must learn a little trapping too and forget about goal totals.

If things don't change adjustments in players will have to be made.

 

[Peasy]

All those guys you mentioned are playing under 20 minutes (Aside from Crosby) Seems like 17-20 is the normal icetime for a franchise player.. If we dont give Kadri icetime he will not be good, you can already see Kadri isnt the same because of his reduced role.. The challenge is for everyone to have a big enough role to produce. Play Tavares and Mathews over 20 minutes might as well trade Kadri because he wont be effective with 3rd line minutes

Theres only so much time to go around, and Matthews and Tavares are significantly better than Kadri, so why would you not play them more? That is just logic. And Kadri isn't the same because he doesnt have a player like Marner to prop him up. Kadri doesn't have to score 30 goals if you add Tavares and hes scoring 35 and Matthews is scoring 45. 19 mins a night for a forward is not a crazy amount.

 

[Liminality]

As much as people talk about the ice time for Matthews, nothing really changed this game from previous games where we were winning...

Matthews total ice time each game so far this year
MTL 17:29, OTT 20:20, CHI 16:53, DAL 18:30, DET 19:35, WSH 18:40, LAK 17:44, PIT 19:05, STL 17:30.

Matthews played 4:56 PP minutes last game, that's the highest he's had this season and most likely a reason why his EV ice time was down.

This comes down to the players effort, they need to start getting into mid season form. It's inexcusable for them to have 1 goal in 2 games considering our depth, especially going 0/5 on powerplays the last two games.

Everyone needs to step it up another notch.

 

[KapG]

Because playing 19 minutes a night wears out our players and makes them tired... Wouldnt you rather a fully refreshed Mathews out for 17 mintues a game or an exhausted Mathews out for 20 minutes? 82 games in a season we have the depth to not wear out our top players in the first month... Keep the top 9 icetime even until playoffs for **** sakes

So every other superstar centre in the league is just being misused when they are being played over 20 minutes a night?

If matthews cant do it without being tired come playoff time there might be something wrong with his conditioning considering his age. That’s clearly not the problem tho. The problem is Babcock

 

[Cor]

Theres only so much time to go around, and Matthews and Tavares are significantly better than Kadri, so why would you not play them more? That is just logic. And Kadri isn't the same because he doesnt have a player like Marner to prop him up. Kadri doesn't have to score 30 goals if you add Tavares and hes scoring 35 and Matthews is scoring 45. 19 mins a night for a forward is not a crazy amount.

It's October. There's nothing wrong with playing Matthews & Tavares lines fairly evenly and then Kadri line a minute or two less, which has happened thus far this season. We are going to win a lot more than we lose. Come February/March, then you can start creating more of a gap in TOI. Same thing with Freddy. He doesn't need to play ever non back-to-back game this early in the season. I don't like that Sparks is the guy we kept, but we did, and we need to use him.

 

[White Shadow]

All those guys you mentioned are playing under 20 minutes (Aside from Crosby) Seems like 17-20 is the normal icetime for a franchise player.. If we dont give Kadri icetime he will not be good, you can already see Kadri isnt the same because of his reduced role.. The challenge is for everyone to have a big enough role to produce. Play Tavares and Mathews over 20 minutes might as well trade Kadri because he wont be effective with 3rd line minutes

Because it couldn't be his linemates...

 

[BertCorbeau]

Grand scheme of things the Leafs are 6-3-0 .. And we knew that they are amidst a tough early season stretch against good times. Regardless of St Louis' slow start, they are still a solid team on paper looking to gel.

In the last week they've play the Caps, Kings, Pens, and now Blues. And are 2-2-0 .. I'm sure a lot of people here wouldn't be too upset with that heading into this stretch given how much of a tire fire the team defense had looked in the first 5 games.

Now they have back to back games against the Jets with a 3 day break before the next game. They have time to reset, refocus and hopefully grab some wins against another good opponent.

Ups and downs of a season. I, for one, am glad we're not coast through this season early on. We're seeing some trends that the team needs to adjust to to get really going:

- need more secondary scoring. Kadri, Marleau, Gardiner need to bring more offense to the table
- line up tweaks. Clearly the lines are quite in tune. Hopefully Nylander comes back soon and balances things out.
- defensive improvement. It's gotten better in the last week, but they need to keep working at it

 

[Peasy]

It's October. There's nothing wrong with playing Matthews & Tavares lines fairly evenly and then Kadri line a minute or two less, which has happened thus far this season. We are going to win a lot more than we lose. Come February/March, then you can start creating more of a gap in TOI. Same thing with Freddy. He doesn't need to play ever non back-to-back game this early in the season. I don't like that Sparks is the guy we kept, but we did, and we need to use him.

The games in October are still worth the same as the games in March. Playing a line that has a total of 1 non empty net goal more than lines that have scored several while youre behind is just silly.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

I wonder if he'll ever get tired of repeating the same things.

Repeat after me, you need to find a new team.

He needs to find a new sport to watch

 

[Suntouchable13]

On pace for a team record 109 points. This is just terrible.

Why are you quoting pace now? It's next to meaningless because how quickly it can flactuate so early in the season. Lose next game and the pace drops to 98 points. Which is not terrible, but just shows you how much it can fluctuate. I think this team is really good but there are some glaring issues that need to be fixed. Coaching to me has not been good enough, and also too many passengers on the team.