ITM
Out on the front line, don't worry I'll be fine...
- Jan 26, 2012
- 4,878
- 2,833
He was done for me the second the game ended on Salming's Night.
We need a stronger hand behind the bench and that bench needs a jolt.
Post-Game Talk: Leafs lay a next-gen egg in a lackluster loss 4-2 to the Senators.
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He was done for me the second the game ended on Salming's Night.
We need a stronger hand behind the bench and that bench needs a jolt.
Rare Jewel
Patience
They wouldn't be wrong; he's almost the perfect coach for the Leafs, but he isn't available.
Thought he looked his old self when he was with Domi and Knies, and something I would like to see more of.
Torontonian
Registered User
That's been the Leafs MO the past 4-5 years, start off well and for whatever reason don't put the final nail into them and its suddenly a game.
Team has serious structure issues in their game, I have no clue when watching what their game plan is after 30 games. The team is 2 d-man away from having a "good" d-core.
Flyers fan, born and raised in S. Ontario surrounded by Leafs fans, home for Xmas and watching a Leafs game front-to-back.
Let me start off by saying how awesome it is to have so many fans putting their opinions out there about their team and their chances. Whether you want to tear it down, or run it back, or anything inbetween, or more, there are tons of knowledgeable fans with opinions and facts to discuss. Hot takes sure, but in general, the quality of the hockey discussion is high. You're blessed, it is simply not the case for other fanbases.
My own opinion about the Leafs? Mirrors alot of the comments made, both good and bad. In general I would say you have a ton to cheer for, and you should hang in there. The long list of complaints is justified by the intensity of the desire for success on the part of the fans, who know they have something great, and cannot understand why they don't actually get great returns...year after year. But sometimes, the playoff dice roll against you, and you're done...you're not a badly run franchise, you lost a series 4-3. That's basically a roll of a die, until you go looking for explanations.
Anyways. Some feedback on comments from a Battle of Ontario matchup where Leafs seemed to have dogged it, versus a struggling Ottawa franchise who deservedly should get a lift from this emotional win..
They are cute. A style dictated by their top 2 lines which are high high quality, and generally very successful in their approach. I wouldn't say lazy, I see highlights of Marner regularly stripping pucks from behind, and Matthews making pretty smart every-zone defensive plays...if the other players are somehow lazy, well, I don't know about it. I expect if those 2 are expending effort defensively, they should be ok.
When I watch the Leafs, year after year these last few years, I see little evidence of coaching. Not that I am so smart. But I do see a lot of wheeling/dealing Leafs hockey, dictated by the skilled players, with a revolving door of support crew trying to keep up with limited success, and no longevity in the role to learn how to play with such great skilled players. When Mitch Marner wheels around in the O-zone, beats 2 players, and then drops a pass between his legs to the point man with wide open space...is he supposed to make a great hockey play out of that? or is he just suprised to get the puck in that situation? And what kind of player do you have to seek out to be able to cope with that, versus anything more dull and regimented and do-able?
I don't see coaching helping with this at all.
I don't think you need a Tortarella to do this. You need a smart coach, preferably with NHL experience with NHL skillsets. That Keefe has created no real cohesion at all, in any directions, between all the different groups of players/skill levels is extremely telling. Figuring out how to make the most of Marner, Matthews, Tavares and Nylander with whomeever should have been much more successful, and targetted at the dog days of hockey e..g April hockey.
Anyways. A coach should be able to add 5-15% overall effectiveness. If not more.
And Bertuzzi I thought showed a ton of fire in exactly the areas Leafs often are blamed for ignoring e.g. the blue paint, he was all over it. Bertuzzi is just the latest parachuted in winger to the Fab 4 to try the expeiment, and see what he can do. Tonite, looked fine. Did not evaluate his defense much though.
Maybe the key is "practice". I do think the Fab 4 can and DO knuckle down come playoff time, and be more playoff in their approach, deeper into their own zone, fisnishing checks, full speed in every situation. But unless you practice that with your teammates, and get everyone used to the implications of it...then you just don't know how to play.
I will say this. The Flyers, if they make the playoffs, have practiced playoff hockey every single shift of their season so far. It looks exhausting, but the players still seem happy, if not ecstatic, about expending the effort for their teammates. And when someone slacks, man, they get benched and benched hard. It's really quite crazy to see all these HFB fans complain about benchings only to hear player interviews acknowledge the correctness of it and how it was necessary in the context of the "agreement" between Torts, his players and their collective goals.
Fascinating stuff to be honest, there's a translated interview out there from Egor Zamula, a rookie Flyer Russian defenseman, who talks very clearly and at length about many things including the players' thoughts about Torts and his approach, and what they think about it all. And it is just 180 degrees opposite from what most fans think.
Anyways Leafs fans. Don't do anything crazy. You have a great team. Woll is certainly good enough to win a Cup, so is Jones, even Samsonov can do it. The squad justs needs to gel, gel hard, and dig deep for 6-8 weeks. Totally doable!!
Let me start off by saying how awesome it is to have so many fans putting their opinions out there about their team and their chances. Whether you want to tear it down, or run it back, or anything inbetween, or more, there are tons of knowledgeable fans with opinions and facts to discuss. Hot takes sure, but in general, the quality of the hockey discussion is high. You're blessed, it is simply not the case for other fanbases.
My own opinion about the Leafs? Mirrors alot of the comments made, both good and bad. In general I would say you have a ton to cheer for, and you should hang in there. The long list of complaints is justified by the intensity of the desire for success on the part of the fans, who know they have something great, and cannot understand why they don't actually get great returns...year after year. But sometimes, the playoff dice roll against you, and you're done...you're not a badly run franchise, you lost a series 4-3. That's basically a roll of a die, until you go looking for explanations.
Anyways. Some feedback on comments from a Battle of Ontario matchup where Leafs seemed to have dogged it, versus a struggling Ottawa franchise who deservedly should get a lift from this emotional win..
They are cute. A style dictated by their top 2 lines which are high high quality, and generally very successful in their approach. I wouldn't say lazy, I see highlights of Marner regularly stripping pucks from behind, and Matthews making pretty smart every-zone defensive plays...if the other players are somehow lazy, well, I don't know about it. I expect if those 2 are expending effort defensively, they should be ok.
It is insane to think about Nylander being added to the level of salary he richly deserves, before any meaningful success achieved by this exact same group. But in a vacuum, it is totally the right move...letting Nylander-level player walk is unthinkable for any team. And I get the country-club jibe...such a frustrating situation, soooo much top talent and no satisfaction. Stay the course man.
To me, this is maybe a real Achilles heel of the Leafs squad. Who is this coach exactly? Where did he come from to be coaching the Leafs (AHL coach when Babcock fired mid-season, and never a look back...?) When he gets fired eventually, is his pedigree such that some other NHL team will add him to the coaching carousel? He has a great regular season record, as he should...but what is his value-add?
When I watch the Leafs, year after year these last few years, I see little evidence of coaching. Not that I am so smart. But I do see a lot of wheeling/dealing Leafs hockey, dictated by the skilled players, with a revolving door of support crew trying to keep up with limited success, and no longevity in the role to learn how to play with such great skilled players. When Mitch Marner wheels around in the O-zone, beats 2 players, and then drops a pass between his legs to the point man with wide open space...is he supposed to make a great hockey play out of that? or is he just suprised to get the puck in that situation? And what kind of player do you have to seek out to be able to cope with that, versus anything more dull and regimented and do-able?
I don't see coaching helping with this at all.
Man, trading Marner would be very hard. I get it. But first the Leafs would have to figure out exactly what skill sets, and then team approach, they want to follow with the returns from the trade, in return for giving up such a skilled player, a great player. Not sure Leafs can get better in such a trade, it's just a roll of the dice without a clear agenda. So far, the Marner way of doing things, along with his fellow 10+millionaires, is the Leaf way...what would be the new way?
So. I am a Flyer fan. Flyers are not at Leafs level, at all, period. But it is damn sure that the coaching staff and the approach that the players have clearly bought into has added 5-10 wins, has added hugely to the inter-teammate belief and made them all more confident playing with each other, has made the goalie's jobs easier as they know exactly what their players will do in every situation and what types of shots and from where they will (mostly) face. It is a thing of great beauty.
I don't think you need a Tortarella to do this. You need a smart coach, preferably with NHL experience with NHL skillsets. That Keefe has created no real cohesion at all, in any directions, between all the different groups of players/skill levels is extremely telling. Figuring out how to make the most of Marner, Matthews, Tavares and Nylander with whomeever should have been much more successful, and targetted at the dog days of hockey e..g April hockey.
Anyways. A coach should be able to add 5-15% overall effectiveness. If not more.
Keefe is not THE end-all-be-all reason for anything. PLus, leafs are just playoff unlucky. But I do wonder what the hell Brendan Shanahan thinks of it all...he's extremely aware of the chemistry, the skill, the everything, Stanley Cup winners need. What does he think? And if he has already dived deep into the $$$ side of the business, which no fan can ever realistically care about, nor should they...well, if the Leafs make $$$, is that success for Shanahan? Maybe. Then a dice roll every playoff.
I understand the thinking. It is hard not to look at that being the explanation when they lose another playoff series. I think the Leafs, even as they are constructed, and coached, are better than that. But I get it.
I thought the young, rookie or AHL dee that Leafs have to play right now, did just great. Enough to be NHL successful,, reasonable defending, forcing direction of play away from net, nothing spectacualr either way. Does anyone expect any of the dee, even the vets when they return, to carry the offense, I mean, c'mon...if they keep it even, Matthews et al should be able to win a battle of attrition.
And Bertuzzi I thought showed a ton of fire in exactly the areas Leafs often are blamed for ignoring e.g. the blue paint, he was all over it. Bertuzzi is just the latest parachuted in winger to the Fab 4 to try the expeiment, and see what he can do. Tonite, looked fine. Did not evaluate his defense much though.
Practice how you want to play...now that is worth thinking about. The main thrust of the Leafs attack seems to be elite players making elite plays. The rest of the squad have to either keep up or not. Dovetails with the coach and his system and ability/inability to harness his skilled players in the same "harness" with his less skilled players. Sum of the parts should be more than the total. That is not the Leafs.
Maybe the key is "practice". I do think the Fab 4 can and DO knuckle down come playoff time, and be more playoff in their approach, deeper into their own zone, fisnishing checks, full speed in every situation. But unless you practice that with your teammates, and get everyone used to the implications of it...then you just don't know how to play.
I will say this. The Flyers, if they make the playoffs, have practiced playoff hockey every single shift of their season so far. It looks exhausting, but the players still seem happy, if not ecstatic, about expending the effort for their teammates. And when someone slacks, man, they get benched and benched hard. It's really quite crazy to see all these HFB fans complain about benchings only to hear player interviews acknowledge the correctness of it and how it was necessary in the context of the "agreement" between Torts, his players and their collective goals.
Fascinating stuff to be honest, there's a translated interview out there from Egor Zamula, a rookie Flyer Russian defenseman, who talks very clearly and at length about many things including the players' thoughts about Torts and his approach, and what they think about it all. And it is just 180 degrees opposite from what most fans think.
Anyways Leafs fans. Don't do anything crazy. You have a great team. Woll is certainly good enough to win a Cup, so is Jones, even Samsonov can do it. The squad justs needs to gel, gel hard, and dig deep for 6-8 weeks. Totally doable!!
Last edited:
34
Registered User
- Mar 26, 2010
- 22,145
- 10,037
They are going to miss the playoffs. This team is f***ing awful. I have never seen a more lazy and entitled bunch of jerks. No heart or Pride. Just Pay Me!
Agree with you both. Bring in what you can that fills the holes in a cheap manner... but do not sell the future for this group. Probably need to take a year and retool, work in the new cap and see where we are at next seasons deadline.
Hopefully this team can make the playoffs and win a round, two even... that experience is always valuable, but I would not be selling the farm. Would be interesting to understand Tre's directives from Shanahan and the board. Guess we'll find out soon!
Superstar
"Be water, my friend."
- Jun 25, 2008
- 12,861
- 9,243
The Panther
Registered User
Yeah, I mean the two teams are tied in regulation wins, and Ottawa has 2 games in hand.
That would be awesome.
Roy has a personality and a pulse, though. The Leafs' braintrust won't want to risk having a head coach with either of those.
Oh an Oilers fan! go back to your own board! imagine a leaf fan posting in the oiler PGT when they lose its an instant infraction. get lost
Yeah those two games at hand should help them make up the 14 point difference in the standings
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Pretty typical game to expect .. I didn't have high hopes, but that fast start had me cautiously optimistic.
After dominating the 1st where they could have had another 2-3 goals with some luck, they got sloppy with their passes and losing a step in winning battles, and let Ottawa get back into it.
Fast forward to the third they lose on a weird bounce/fluke.. but they also could have had 2-3 goals with getting their bounce too.
Karma for not playing a full 60 I suppose.
Oh well.. my boys had an absolute blast at their first Leaf game which is all that mattered to me tonight. To them the game ranked behind the snacks, the 2 zamboni's, Carlton, and seeing their cousin/aunt/uncle. But they'll be talking about this experience for a long time
After dominating the 1st where they could have had another 2-3 goals with some luck, they got sloppy with their passes and losing a step in winning battles, and let Ottawa get back into it.
Fast forward to the third they lose on a weird bounce/fluke.. but they also could have had 2-3 goals with getting their bounce too.
Karma for not playing a full 60 I suppose.
Oh well.. my boys had an absolute blast at their first Leaf game which is all that mattered to me tonight. To them the game ranked behind the snacks, the 2 zamboni's, Carlton, and seeing their cousin/aunt/uncle. But they'll be talking about this experience for a long time
Got offered last second tickets for tonight’s game but turned them down since we are at the cottage.
Toyed briefly with driving 4 hours each way to make the game, and so glad I decided not to.
Not much more to say than what already been said.
Play like tonight makes this such an un-likeable team. They are clearly missing something between the ears.
Clearly Keefe needs to go but honestly wondering if there is really anything that can be done from behind the bench with these guys.
I would give a lot to dial back their skill if it upped their competitiveness. It’s their lack of give a crap that drives me batshit. If it doesn't fall into their laps, it feels like they have no desire to work for it.
On to the next one…
Toyed briefly with driving 4 hours each way to make the game, and so glad I decided not to.
Not much more to say than what already been said.
Play like tonight makes this such an un-likeable team. They are clearly missing something between the ears.
Clearly Keefe needs to go but honestly wondering if there is really anything that can be done from behind the bench with these guys.
I would give a lot to dial back their skill if it upped their competitiveness. It’s their lack of give a crap that drives me batshit. If it doesn't fall into their laps, it feels like they have no desire to work for it.
On to the next one…
34
Registered User
- Mar 26, 2010
- 22,145
- 10,037
I am no Keefe fan, but how is it his fault. Is he supposed to put the goalie pads on himself and make the saves. The Leafs have to worst goaltending in the league. It is literally dog shit.
Tonights game, the team looked LAZY, no f**** given.
1specter
Registered User
- Sep 27, 2016
- 12,906
- 19,568
Seriously, their team is garbage so they have nothing better to do than come here.
34
Registered User
- Mar 26, 2010
- 22,145
- 10,037
trash oilers team. McDavid is not a top 20 player this season. 12 goals?
Me neither the goals on the rush lesson and marner and matty tend to get too cute together
Seath The Scaleless
Paledrake
The Sens had absolutely nothing going until the Leafs gifted them a shorthanded goal. You're supposed to bury them on the PP, not give them hope for a comeback. And then a breakaway seconds later?!? Self inflicted wounds.
Reminded me of game 2 vs FLA. Came out guns blazing and had a 2-0 lead. Then a whole lot of nothing rest of the way
Reminded me of game 2 vs FLA. Came out guns blazing and had a 2-0 lead. Then a whole lot of nothing rest of the way
I disagree one legit difference maker and were in good shape I like the second pair
...in other words, they are who we thought they were!
#1 need- new president.
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