Eklund Rumor: Leafs in on Cam Fowler

[4thline]

Playing in the KHL is not playing in the NHL. They don't all make it here just because they played against men there. With the differences between there and here, he is still a rookie and you're trying to justify a rookie in the top four. One obviously wouldn't and that's a good thing but neither should.

You're making "rookie in the top-4" a much bigger deal than it really is, without even considering that said rookie is a 24 year old international level player on one of the big 7.

Sure he may not translate, but you're acting as it it's some big taboo.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You're making "rookie in the top-4" a much bigger deal than it really is, without even considering that said rookie is a 24 year old international level player on one of the big 7.

Sure he may not translate, but you're acting as it it's some big taboo.

Not really. You're exaggerating my words for the sake of your argument. Show me how many 24 year old international level players from one of the big 7 came to the NHL and stepped right into a top four role? I'm not acting like it's taboo. History's just not on your side to think that he's going to do well. If he is played in that role, he's likely to fail and the Leafs are better off easing him into the role by playing him on the 3rd pair this year.

 

[Ciao]

Not really. You're exaggerating my words for the sake of your argument. Show me how many 24 year old international level players from one of the big 7 came to the NHL and stepped right into a top four role? I'm not acting like it's taboo. History's just not on your side to think that he's going to do well. If he is played in that role, he's likely to fail and the Leafs are better off easing him into the role by playing him on the 3rd pair this year.

I've heard of a guy named Panarin, a forward, of a similar age and background who did well in top-six role last season. You might have heard of him too.

Your off-the-cuff comments about who is likely to fail and what a particular team is better off doing are not quite as categorically correct nor as predictable as you might think.

 

[Exit Dose]

And Andersen was basically a sign and trade case. Really rare, and something that increases value a lot. Bernier, with his cap hit, probably had negative value in that trade.

Sign-and-trade means that you sign a player and then trade him.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I've heard of a guy named Panarin, a forward, of a similar age and background who did well in top-six role last season. You might have heard of him too.

Your off-the-cuff comments about who is likely to fail and what a particular team is better off doing are not quite as categorically correct nor as predictable as you might think.

Good job pointing to a forward in response to a question about showing a d-man. You want to try and make a comment like being categorically correct yet you can't respond appropriately to something as plain as what I said. You're not one to talk.

 

[4thline]

If he is played in that role, he's likely to fail and the Leafs are better off easing him into the role by playing him on the 3rd pair this year.

Leafs management disagrees with your assessment.

Lamoriello on Zaitsev: "We all feel in the organization that Nikita can play in the top-4 next year ... we've all spent some time with him"

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/5/2/11568420/nikita-zaitsev-is-officially-a-toronto-maple-leaf

And that's what it boils to. Well that and some strange notion that the Leafs have a limitless supply of top-30 wingers

 

[Liferleafer]

Not really. You're exaggerating my words for the sake of your argument. Show me how many 24 year old international level players from one of the big 7 came to the NHL and stepped right into a top four role? I'm not acting like it's taboo. History's just not on your side to think that he's going to do well. If he is played in that role, he's likely to fail and the Leafs are better off easing him into the role by playing him on the 3rd pair this year.

Artemi Panarin....ever hear of him?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Leafs management disagrees with your assessment.

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/5/2/11568420/nikita-zaitsev-is-officially-a-toronto-maple-leaf

And that's what it boils to. Well that and some strange notion that the Leafs have a limitless supply of top-30 wingers

They're free to do so. It doesn't mean they're right by default either. Your strange notion comment is just further proof that you have no capability of sticking to the actual argument and words said...likely because you don't actually have a substantive response.

 

[Liferleafer]

Playing in the KHL is not playing in the NHL. They don't all make it here just because they played against men there. With the differences between there and here, he is still a rookie and you're trying to justify a rookie in the top four. One obviously wouldn't and that's a good thing but neither should.

Which is why i said "not a shoe in for top 4 in the NHL". Lou Lamorillo has stated that the Leafs have scouted and spent time with Zaitsev, and he feels he can play top 4...so pardon me if i regard his opinions just a tad higher than yours.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Artemi Panarin....ever hear of him?

Read the rest of the thread. Artemi Panarin didn't step into a top four role on the blue line and even if that was a legitimate response, do the Leafs have a Patrick Kane for someone like Zaitsev to play off of? Give me a break.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Which is why i said "not a shoe in for top 4 in the NHL". Lou Lamorillo has stated that the Leafs have scouted and spent time with Zaitsev, and he feels he can play top 4...so pardon me if i regard his opinions just a tad higher than yous.

Yeah and how many of these types of finds has Lou actually gotten in his career or in the more relevant time of the last five to ten years where they step into the top four immediately?

 

[Liferleafer]

They're free to do so. It doesn't mean they're right by default either. Your strange notion comment is just further proof that you have no capability of sticking to the actual argument and words said...likely because you don't actually have a substantive response.

Many posters have given you a substansive response...the fact you want to plug your ears and go LALALALA doesn't mean said posters are incorrect.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Many posters have given you a substansive response...the fact you want to plug your ears and go LALALALA doesn't mean said posters are incorrect.

No, they actually haven't.

 

[Funk21]

If Fowler was a right hand shot I could see what all the fuss was about but he is not so it really does not make a lot of sense for the leafs to be pursuing him unless the ducks would be selling in the cheap and we all know that isn't happening.

As for the leaf situation don't understand what all the heated back and forth is for. Look we have some decent defencemen in Rielly and Gardiner, Zaitsev was a great signing in the offseason(low risk and cost us nothing), yes he is unproven in North America but he has played in the KHL and on the world stage and been great so the belief is that will translate. The rest is a lot of unknown but if said players like Marincin and Carrick play the way they did at the mid season on then this actually may be a strength for us. Is their a fair degree of uncertainty yes but seeing how competitive we were last year makes me optimistic that we are going to see some real growth.

 

[Liferleafer]

Yeah and how many of these types of finds has Lou actually gotten in his career or in the more relevant time of the last five to ten years where they step into the top four immediately?

I think i'll believe him before you....

 

[4thline]

They're free to do so. It doesn't mean they're right by default either. Your strange notion comment is just further proof that you have no capability of sticking to the actual argument and words said...likely because you don't actually have a substantive response.

Well when you could say with a straight face that no player like JVR had any impact on the Pens winning the cup when they had an offensively leaning 1st line wing with near identical gpg over the last 4 years driving their 3rd line (which just may have had a small impact in winning) and a lesser version of JVR (stylistically, big net front presence) riding shotgun on another I had to assume you've got the crazy idea that wingers are completely interchangeable, and that they could have done it with 3x Rust + 3x Sheary (not all playing out of their minds at the same time). I'm not touching that.

Your own words that it was "misleading that they wouldn't have a forward replacement".

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think i'll believe him before you....

Appealing to authority as a response isn't a substantive argument. If anything, this is the plugging your ears thing you were referring to. That Cup picture was what? 13 years ago now? Yeah, I can see why that matters to this subject in the here and now.

 

[Liferleafer]

No, they actually haven't.

Multiple Leafs fans...you know, the ones that actually follow the team....have explained it...the fact it doesn't fit your opinion doesn't make them wrong.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

everyone agrees fowler is not a good fit for the leafs since he's LHD, as usual the crap that eklund spews is nonsensical in attempts to generate hits

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Zaitsev is 24 years old, he's been playing in the KHL since 2009...against men. His last 2 seasons:
57 games 32 points +27
46 games 26 points +21

I'm not saying he is a NHL top 4 shoe in...but he's not exactly a rookie. As far as Carrick...

Rielly/Marincin
Gardiner/Zaitsev
Polak/Hunwick/Carrick/Corrado

Carrick won't be "expected" to play top 4...if he earns it, great. What you also need to remember is this is year 2 of the Shanaplan...nobody is expecting this team to make the playoffs...a marginal improvement is what we are looking at.

it is almost impossible to project how KHL'ers will do here

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Well when you could say with a straight face that no player like JVR had any impact on the Pens winning the cup when they had an offensively leaning 1st line wing with near identical gpg over the last 4 years driving their 3rd line (which just may have had a small impact in winning) and a lesser version of JVR (stylistically, big net front presence) riding shotgun on another I had to assume you've got the crazy idea that wingers are completely interchangeable, and that they could have done it with 3x Rust + 3x Sheary (not all playing out of their minds at the same time). I'm not touching that.

Your own words that it was "misleading that they wouldn't have a forward replacement".

Except there's a pretty big difference between the kind of player JVR is and the kind of player Kessel is. Ignoring that pretty crucial difference is a problem when trying to have these kinds of conversations.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Multiple Leafs fans...you know, the ones that actually follow the team....have explained it...the fact it doesn't fit your opinion doesn't make them wrong.

I probably follow the Leafs better than most that proclaim themselves to be Leafs fans so that type of jab isn't going to do much here. lol Their explanations aren't substantive. It doesn't make them wrong but it doesn't make them right either.

 

[Vipers31]

I mean, there isn't a lot to help you, if you cannot understand the meaning of "urgent". But if you actually want to make a point, I'm sure you can offer me list of those teams, who have so urgent need for a top-4 LHD, that they just simply cannot wait for a bit longer when there will more than likely be those players available as the teams start to get ready for the expansion draft.

Yeah, making up an artificial an unrealistic definition of the term "urgent" in this context isn't exactly making a point. There's very few things that just "cannot wait" for a bit longer - even your proclaimed Lindholm trade in case the Ducks wouldn't sign him before he became an offer sheet target wasn't that kind of urgent, it appears. If you don't see a whole bunch of teams looking to add a top-4 defender, that's your problem.

 

[4thline]

Except there's a pretty big difference between the kind of player JVR is and the kind of player Kessel is. Ignoring that pretty crucial difference is a problem when trying to have these kinds of conversations.

Lol fantastic tapdancing. Wingers impacted their cup win, both of similar kind and ability.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Yeah, making up an artificial an unrealistic definition of the term "urgent" in this context isn't exactly making a point. There's very few things that just "cannot wait" for a bit longer - even your proclaimed Lindholm trade in case the Ducks wouldn't sign him before he became an offer sheet target wasn't that kind of urgent, it appears. If you don't see a whole bunch of teams looking to add a top-4 defender, that's your problem.

The expansion draft can't be ignored while considering Fowler's or any other players trade value.
While there are probably many teams that would like to add a top 4 d-men there is a cost to be considered, that being who can be protected and who would be exposed/lost to LV in the Summer.

A team with a strong top three defencemen under contract for more than two years (or a d-men with a NMC who must be protected lol) might want Fowler but knowing that they will have to expose and probably lose him in the expansion draft won't be offering what Duck's fan consider a fair return.

Teams can't wait indefinitely for Anaheim to get back to them to accept a proposed trade for Fowler.
They will move on to their plan B. Once the number of interested teams gets smaller the return will probably diminish as well this is the urgency.