Confirmed with Link: Leafs have acquired Ryan O’Reilly, Noel Acciari & Josh Pillar in a three-team trade with STL and MIN

[WillyC]

To all the folks who think ROR is washed or won’t be able to help… prepare yourselves to be proven wrong.

He’s going through the wall for us.

 

[kb]

What blows my mind about what a good fit Acciari is the fact that he signed for $1.25 million for 1 year last summer while the Leafs paid $1 million for Aube-Kubel and dumped him a month into the season.

Kinda would love to be a fly on the wall with that conversation between GM and pro scouts.

He was signed for $2.5 million.

St. Louis is retaining 50%

 

[SprDaVE]

He was signed for $2.5 million.

St. Louis is retaining 50%

Nope. He signed a 1 year 1.25M contract on July 13 2022. Blues have not retained any salary on Acciari.

 

[kb]

Nope. He signed a 1 year 1.25M contract on July 13 2022. Blues have not retained any salary on Acciari.

Huh. I stand corrected. Why did I think he was retained too?

 

[leafsfan5]

To all the folks who think ROR is washed or won’t be able to help… prepare yourselves to be proven wrong.

He’s going through the wall for us.

People forget it was just last year he was top 5 in selke voting. He's been top 5 for the last 4 years, the only other player with that honour is Patrice Bergeron

He had a tough 40 games driven by some of the worst luck in the NHL, but he's legitimately one of the best 2-way players in all of hockey. He's going to be dominant once he adjusts

 

[Puckstuff]

This is a definite wait and see trade, O'Rielly has less points than Engvall so I wouldn't include O'Rielly in any list of superior players TO needs to be more successful in the playoffs. I do expect O'Rielly would be a fine addition to TO's bottom 6, I'd love to see him and Engvall on the same line with maybe Acciari/Jarnkrok even Kerfoot. TO might now have the foundation of a decent bottom 6, some decent offense and d but O'Rielly's -26 in 42 games is scary and paired with his puny offensive numbers, I wonder if his true value was 2019, not 2023.

TO still needs another forward, a starish type that can play and contribute in the top 6, O'Rielly and Acciari probably help but TO still needs a massive addition to the top 6 forwards, someone that can/will contribute when things are on the line, these additions don't move that needle.

I didn't like how Keefe configured the lines with the new additions but I doubt these lines are what we'll see come playoff time.

What I'd like to see:

Bunting/Matthews/Nylander

?/JT/Mitch

Engvall/O'Rielly/Acciari

Jarnkrok/Kerfoot/Kampf

If Dubie can come up with someone decent for the JT line then he will have accomplished something. How he might be able to do this after using so much to acquire O'Rielly and Acciari will be very interesting.

I just went thru the rosters of teams that won't make the playoffs and I don't see a match for TO's needs, for a variety of reasons, so let's hope Knies is a ready made star or at least a decent top 6 player.

Knies-Matthews-Nylander
Bunting-Tavares-Marner
Kerfoot-O’Reilly-Jarnkrok
Engvall-Kampf-Accarai

This is my lineup in April. You can interchange Knies and Kerfoot between 1st and 3rd line. Both are out of place as a top 6 wing (Knies being unproven until he does and Kerfoot is a 3rd liner) but their really isn’t a good internal option for LW and I really like bunting with JT and Marner. If we spend any more assets I would be looking at an upgrade on D. Unless some player like Kane comes cheap but that isn’t happening. Ironically the players we need the most are prime Muzzin, prime Murray and Knies being good. To replace top line LW, top 3 D or a goalie is going to cost a fortune.

 

[Stephen]

Knies-Matthews-Nylander
Bunting-Tavares-Marner
Kerfoot-O’Reilly-Jarnkrok
Engvall-Kampf-Accarai

This is my lineup in April. You can interchange Knies and Kerfoot between 1st and 3rd line. Both are out of place as a top 6 wing (Knies being unproven until he does and Kerfoot is a 3rd liner) but their really isn’t a good internal option for LW and I really like bunting with JT and Marner. If we spend any more assets I would be looking at an upgrade on D. Unless some player like Kane comes cheap but that isn’t happening. Ironically the players we need the most are prime Muzzin, prime Murray and Knies being good. To replace top line LW, top 3 D or a goalie is going to cost a fortune.

If we could somehow delete Kerfoot and or Engvall for 2 other reliable 3rd line players it would feel very solid top to bottom.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

If we could somehow delete Kerfoot and or Engvall for 2 other reliable 3rd line players it would feel very solid top to bottom.

I'm not holding my breath. Dubas seems allergic to messing with whatever the current roster is any given TDL. I guess he doesn't want to mess up team chemistry or depth during the season but sometimes you've gotta let go of your favourites to give the rest of the team the best chance possible.

Though I think I've defeated my own argument. Going through the past 5 Cup winners and the only real example of this is Colorado trading Jost for Sturm midseason, which ended up not mattering all that much. Still though, I'd prefer it if the Leafs could parlay Kerfoot and Holl into an obvious upgrade. And though it's another league but in the same city, the Raptors traded Valančiūnas for a clear upgrade in Gasol and look how that turned out.

 

[SoftDumpNtheCorner88]

It's funny how Accarai, already looks better than anyone in our bottom 6 (only 2 game sample).

Guy finishes his checks and battles hard on the boards. ZAR looked to be that guy at the start of the season but dialed it down afterwards.. hoping Accarai sparks him.

Engvall looked better lately but again the guy is scared of contact. He has that potential but instead tries to play a finnese game, when it's clear we have enough of that.

We need more meat and potatoes, that energy spreads throughout the line up. When your line up sees engvall back down in a fight against HAGAL... That pissed me right off, because HAGAL is more dangerous than Engvall ever was in terms of being a scoring threat and you have that guy itching to fight Engvall and he turns it down as if he didn't want to get baited in for a fight... Dude, get a clue.. that's the type of match up you want to take into the penalty box and your chance to fight to not only stop you from looking like a p***y but also spark the team and the guy declines and turtles... I wanted Engvall off the team ever since that moment... That type of shit demoralized who ever sees that on the bench and spark the other team instead.

 

[frizzer1]

If we could somehow delete Kerfoot and or Engvall for 2 other reliable 3rd line players it would feel very solid top to bottom.

Bunting is a perfect fit on the Matthews/Nylander line.
Why change them?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

It's funny how Accarai, already looks better than anyone in our bottom 6 (only 2 game sample).

Guy finishes his checks and battles hard on the boards. ZAR looked to be that guy at the start of the season but dialed it down afterwards.. hoping Accarai sparks him.

Engvall looked better lately but again the guy is scared of contact. He has that potential but instead tries to play a finnese game, when it's clear we have enough of that.

We need more meat and potatoes, that energy spreads throughout the line up. When your line up sees engvall back down in a fight against HAGAL... That pissed me right off, because HAGAL is more dangerous than Engvall ever was in terms of being a scoring threat and you have that guy itching to fight Engvall and he turns it down as if he didn't want to get baited in for a fight... Dude, get a clue.. that's the type of match up you want to take into the penalty box and your chance to fight to not only stop you from looking like a p***y but also spark the team and the guy declines and turtles... I wanted Engvall off the team ever since that moment... That type of shit demoralized who ever sees that on the bench and spark the other team instead.

Give him a couple of weeks and Acciari will dial it back too. Seems to always happen with whatever physical player the Leafs bring in. They come out the gate playing with good physicality and edge and then slowly it gets neutered from their game.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

If we could somehow delete Kerfoot and or Engvall for 2 other reliable 3rd line players it would feel very solid top to bottom.

Maybe we have different interpretations of reliable 3rd liners, but Kerfoot and Engvall are about as reliable as it gets. Strong defensive numbers and they tend to outchance/outscore the other team in the big picture. I'd be thrilled to move Kerfoot out though, because the line between reliable and vanilla is so thin. He's just a solid player night in night out, but I think the Leafs could do better for his salary. ZAR also has no business being a top 12 forward on this team

 

[Stephen]

Maybe we have different interpretations of reliable 3rd liners, but Kerfoot and Engvall are about as reliable as it gets. Strong defensive numbers and they tend to outchance/outscore the other team in the big picture. I'd be thrilled to move Kerfoot out though, because the line between reliable and vanilla is so thin. He's just a solid player night in night out, but I think the Leafs could do better for his salary. ZAR also has no business being a top 12 forward on this team

Yeah I think our definitions of third liners and reliability probably aren't aligned.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Give him a couple of weeks and Acciari will dial it back too. Seems to always happen with whatever physical player the Leafs bring in. They come out the gate playing with good physicality and edge and then slowly it gets neutered from their game.

I hope not…

If this is true then it’s Front office, with the woke, everyone happy, participatory trophies, no one hurt feelings culture we need to get rid of…

Trying to win at HOCKEY championships here… not raise a culture where the teacher wants strap on breasts to feel validated like in Oakville.

 

[Hellcat]

Tampa literally traded a first for 37 playoff game guy Savard at the 2021 deadline.

Youre reading too much into it brotha.

I'm kinda looking at what Dubas chases, Jumbo Joe, Spezza, Gio, Foligno, ROR, Hainsey ... they were all at one time Captains in the NHL - maybe not Hainsey, all highly revered for their leadership, all at the end or near the end of their careers (meaning they were not coveted primarily for their athletic ability / point production, it was another trait they were coveted for) seems to me Dubas is telling us, without coming out directly and telling us, a lot about this team and their fatal flaw.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I'm kinda looking at what Dubas chases, Jumbo Joe, Spezza, Gio, Foligno, ROR, Hainsey ... they were all at one time Captains in the NHL - maybe not Hainsey, all highly revered for their leadership, all at the end or near the end of their careers (meaning they were not coveted primarily for their athletic ability / point production, it was another trait they were coveted for) seems to me Dubas is telling us, without coming out directly and telling us, a lot about this team and their fatal flaw.

It’s weird how everyone is quick to jump on the guy for playing too much Moneyball and then ignores that all of those guys were under 2 mil cap hits that they significantly outperformed other than Jumbo and Foligno when it’s convenient for another narrative.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Yeah I think our definitions of third liners and reliability probably aren't aligned.

Well they're #7 and #8 in 5v5 ice time among forwards and play both special teams on a top 5 team in the league, so I'd be curious to know why they wouldn't be considered 3rd liners under your definition.

Reliability is at least up for debate, but the fact is the Leafs score more goals than the other team when they're on the ice and that's kind of the ultimate purpose of hockey. I'm not even trying to make a case for keeping Kerfoot, but if you want to just replace him with another reliable player for the sake of it you aren't making the team any better

 

[Hellcat]

People forget it was just last year he was top 5 in selke voting. He's been top 5 for the last 4 years, the only other player with that honour is Patrice Bergeron

He had a tough 40 games driven by some of the worst luck in the NHL, but he's legitimately one of the best 2-way players in all of hockey. He's going to be dominant once he adjusts

Those reputation awards really don't mean much TBH, Ovi a few years back had votes for 1st team all star for RW, LW, C and those votes came from the Hockey Writers Guild. Apparently asking them to be aware what position a person actually plays is too much to ask.

The Norris has been a joke for years, rarely the best defenceman wins, a guy who is a defenceman and scores the most almost always wins, no matter how shitty he is at defending, he still wins.

The fact that Marner's highest Selke finish is 10th, kinda tells you all you need to know about how BS those award are.

 

[Hellcat]

Give him a couple of weeks and Acciari will dial it back too. Seems to always happen with whatever physical player the Leafs bring in. They come out the gate playing with good physicality and edge and then slowly it gets neutered from their game.

Or they play like boneheads, Clifford / Simmonds I'm looking at you, and take stupid F-ing bonehead penalties at the absolute worst times and bring zero offence to make up for those bonehead plays.

 

[Hellcat]

Well they're #7 and #8 in 5v5 ice time among forwards and play both special teams on a top 5 team in the league, so I'd be curious to know why they wouldn't be considered 3rd liners under your definition.

Reliability is at least up for debate, but the fact is the Leafs score more goals than the other team when they're on the ice and that's kind of the ultimate purpose of hockey. I'm not even trying to make a case for keeping Kerfoot, but if you want to just replace him with another reliable player for the sake of it you aren't making the team any better

When you get into to that area of ATOI, you got to ask are they getting the minutes because they earned it or because there is no one else that can take it? IE the options are worse than those two.

Kerfoot has a purpose, he has speed but he thinks he can deke modern day defencemen, and he cant, thus being one of the most vanilia forwards on the roster.

Engvall is 6'6 and plays like he is 5'6, has surprising speed, he has one "go to" move that works a a lot, cross seam shot. I don't mind him if he plays to his strengths but so often forgets who he is.

I'd like to see a few games with ROR, Engvall and Kerfoot on the 3rd line to see what we got. ROR in front of the net, Kerfoot with his puck retrieval skills and Engvall with his good shot would be interesting to see.

 

[Zybalto]

I'm kinda looking at what Dubas chases, Jumbo Joe, Spezza, Gio, Foligno, ROR, Hainsey ... they were all at one time Captains in the NHL - maybe not Hainsey, all highly revered for their leadership, all at the end or near the end of their careers (meaning they were not coveted primarily for their athletic ability / point production, it was another trait they were coveted for) seems to me Dubas is telling us, without coming out directly and telling us, a lot about this team and their fatal flaw.

Character guys that are great leaders and great in the room?

I mean, when it comes to Tampa, youre reading waaaay to much is read into the players up front and not enough at the fact they had Vasy and we've had sulky injured never performed in a big playoff game Andersen and headcase Campbell.

It's true, In playoff elimination games ( a loss could mean someone goes home) the last 3 years:

Leafs are: 1-7

Goals For/game: 2.125
Goals Against/game: 3.25 (with 0 shutouts)

(and Leafs outshoot opposition an average 37-29)

Lightning are 12-2

Goals For/game: 2.66
Goals Against/game: 1.42 (with 6 shutouts)

(Games are far more even and the Leafs have far better D numbers than Tampa)

...and if you want to dig even deeper, Torontos stars have performed as well or better than Tampas have in these games and it has been depth players making the difference for Tampa.

It's obvious the difference between these two teams have been in net in big games though. I dont think that half goal a game scored by Tampa moves the needle that much compared to having the greatest playoff goalie of modern times in net. It's why trying to make "character" arguments is reaching here. (uless maybe you want to talk about possible confidence issues when your goalkeeping lets you down in big games so often.

Few teams have made Vasy look mortal in recent playoff times though and the Leafs were certainly one of them.....and now that they are loading up on depth scoring (and Tampa has lost depth) it might be the breakthough needed. We'll see.

 

[Stephen]

Well they're #7 and #8 in 5v5 ice time among forwards and play both special teams on a top 5 team in the league, so I'd be curious to know why they wouldn't be considered 3rd liners under your definition.

Reliability is at least up for debate, but the fact is the Leafs score more goals than the other team when they're on the ice and that's kind of the ultimate purpose of hockey. I'm not even trying to make a case for keeping Kerfoot, but if you want to just replace him with another reliable player for the sake of it you aren't making the team any better

I don't really trust them with a consistent contribution and neither does the team. Engvall is worse but has a more untapped and unique set of skills with his speed, reach and rushing capability, while Kerfoot is the soft under belly that will be exposed time and again in the playoffs as the weak link.

So yeah, I don't really like either. Could keep one but wouldn't mind a harder third line player to have a more complete playoff roster from 1F-12F.

 

[Stephen]

Give him a couple of weeks and Acciari will dial it back too. Seems to always happen with whatever physical player the Leafs bring in. They come out the gate playing with good physicality and edge and then slowly it gets neutered from their game.

That does seem to be a trend. They probably have a sports science person telling them to minimize wear and tear.

 

[Its not your fault]

If we could somehow delete Kerfoot and or Engvall for 2 other reliable 3rd line players it would feel very solid top to bottom.

We can it just will cost something lol

 

[ACC1224]

It’s weird how everyone is quick to jump on the guy for playing too much Moneyball and then ignores that all of those guys were under 2 mil cap hits that they significantly outperformed other than Jumbo and Foligno when it’s convenient for another narrative.

Then why were Jumbo and Foligno brought in?