Post-Game Talk: Leafs embarrass Berube again

[CelticDruid]

Too many giveaways? Stats list 1
Since he has the puck so much that’s not bad
Who played better?

The team was mediocre after the first period.

The team sucked as a whole.
Marner and Matthews are supposed to be leaders.
So much PP time and they failed to produce when we needed it.
That to me is a massive failure by these supposedly leaders of the Leafs.

They should all be ashamed of last nights performance.

 

[Stephen]

The team was mediocre after the first period.

The team sucked as a whole.
Marner and Matthews are supposed to be leaders.
So much PP time and they failed to produce when we needed it.
That to me is a massive failure by these supposedly leaders of the Leafs.

They should all be ashamed of last nights performance.

There are a lot of shameful performances that have piled up over the years. Learning lessons if you will.

 

[Maple Leaf]

If I hear one more time “the players are adjusting to the system” I’m going to lose my mind. We’re 12 games in, this isn’t rocket science. The players have to wake up, start playing like you give a shit. Matthews is sleep walking out there

we are like 9 years in

 

[CelticDruid]

There are a lot of shameful performances that have piled up over the years. Learning lessons if you will.

They will never graduate or learn the right way because the mentality is always pass the puck into the net .

I guess I'm just sick of all the little cute passes and wasted scoring chances in order to get that highlight goal.

 

[authentic]

They will never graduate or learn the right way because the mentality is always pass the puck into the net .

I guess I'm just sick of all the little cute passes and wasted scoring chances in order to get that highlight goal.

Not enough good shooters on the team for them to play any other way. Really who on this team has a good shot other than Matthews and Nylander?

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

If I hear one more time “the players are adjusting to the system” I’m going to lose my mind. We’re 12 games in, this isn’t rocket science. The players have to wake up, start playing like you give a shit. Matthews is sleep walking out there

The problem they have with adjusting, is that playing "The right way" is hard to do and our guys have enjoyed several years of pond hockey. If it was easy to play the right way and everybody did it...it would just be called playing...

 

[Crocket]

The team just doesn't have enough depth. Loaded up front on the top 6, mid D and mid goaltending. Hopefully Berube can get them beyond the middle of the pack but so far it's about the same record to start as last year

 

[Antropovsky]

In his practice interview, Marner credited Knies for being able to keep up with him and Matthews. He mentioned that it's not easy to play with them because other linemates can’t figure out where they’re going since they move sporadically on the ice. Yet, he claimed that he and Matthews somehow know where each other are.

Maybe it’s time for Marner and Matthews to try playing a more traditional style?

Marner also tends to only look for Matthews, which doesn’t help matters.

It’s an odd statement: two players doing what works for them, but by Marner's own admission, it doesn’t work well for a third linemate. It’s also strange because Marner and Matthews haven’t been that productive together for the 3rd year now. Matthews was much more effective with Bertuzzi and Domi than running those "sporadic" routes with Marner.

Split them up.

 

[Gallagbi]

In his practice interview, Marner credited Knies for being able to keep up with him and Matthews. He mentioned that it's not easy to play with them because other linemates can’t figure out where they’re going since they move sporadically on the ice. Yet, he claimed that he and Matthews somehow know where each other are.

Maybe it’s time for Marner and Matthews to try playing a more traditional style?

Marner also tends to only look for Matthews, which doesn’t help matters.

It’s an odd statement: two players doing what works for them, but by Marner's own admission, it doesn’t work well for a third linemate. It’s also strange because Marner and Matthews haven’t been that productive together for the 3rd year now. Matthews was much more effective with Bertuzzi and Domi than running those "sporadic" routes with Marner.

Split them up.

You're way too invested in a largely throwaway comment praising a linemate for stepping into a role

 

[Antropovsky]

You're way too invested in a largely throwaway comment praising a linemate for stepping into a role

Excellent, than you should be able to easily explain why it makes sense what Marner said?

Roenick said the Leafs never appear like a cohesive group. He said "they are not all thinking the same thing, they dont all do the same things, its one line here, one line there. One player here, its not one as a group"

Why is Matthews and Marner sporatically moving around the ice and their linemates cant figure it out? Note that Berube has also shown frustration with leafs being too cute instead of doing simple plays.

 

[IPS]

Not enough good shooters on the team for them to play any other way. Really who on this team has a good shot other than Matthews and Nylander?

Well Knies and Tavares aren't bad shooters, Tavares still has a nice wrister in the slot and Knies has a good hard shot that just needs a bit more accuracy. That's the current top-6 anyway.

Go to the bottom-6 and oh boy it's bad. McMann, Domi, and Holmberg, none of them are natural good shooters at all. Kamf, Reaves, Lorentz? Pretty bad too. I get it that it's the bottom-6 but you got Domi, Kampf, and Holmberg who don't even have a single goal 12 games in.

 

[JamieG19]

The Leafs are the same team as last year, just with a more popular coach, and better goaltending for now bc of Stolarz.

And last year they were a very good regular season team bc of their talented “Core 4” and easily secured a playoff spot. And then in the playoffs couldn’t find a way to win the tight 0-0 and 1-1 games in the 3rd.

So I expect them to win tonight against a good Minnesota team bc that’s what they would have done last year

 

[Gallagbi]

Excellent, than you should be able to easily explain why it makes sense what Marner said?

Roenick said the Leafs never appear like a cohesive group. He said "they are not all thinking the same thing, they dont all do the same things, its one line here, one line there. One player here, its not one as a group"

Why is Matthews and Marner sporatically moving around the ice and their linemates cant figure it out? Note that Berube has also shown frustration with leafs being too cute instead of doing simple plays.

It's like I said, you're reading WAY too much into a throwaway quote.

But to answer your question some top guys have had issues finding fit. Crosby went through a number of wingers and couldn't gel with Hossa or Kessel. That's the most notable example.

Marner and Matthews have also had success together with Hyman, Bunting and now Knies. Really it's just Bert who couldn't fit with them - he also struggled for most of the year prior
and then again this year. While Matthews has been fine with Willy, Marners found a fit with JT, Kadri, Marleau, Komarov even Marleau

But sure, they're impossible to play with.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Exactly, by the time a hockey player has made the NHL, he's played for at least 18-24 head coaches moving up through competitive minor hockey, major junior, and/or college ranks. They have played all of the 'hockey systems' out there IMHO.

Adjusting to a new coach is simply adjusting to the new coach and his specific hockey jargon. 'Hockey systems' often have different names, however the actual tactics and methods are nearly identical.

Sure, each head coach has his preferences for player positioning and responsibilities within their version of the system. A seasoned NHL hockey player, and even NHL rookies, should be able to adjust to a new coach and his system nuances relatively quickly.

As a minor league coach, I coached players one season and then coached them again a couple of seasons later. They didn't forget how I wanted them to play within my systems despite being coached by 2 different coaches in between.

What I experienced was that some players decided they wanted to play my systems their way. Of course it didn't always work out because of this.

I think our Leafs, especially our core, have decided that they want to play their game their way and not what the coaches are asking of them. This happened to Babcock, Keefe, and now Berube.

Pond hockey only works if the opposing team wants to play that way too. Run and gun only works if the opposing team wants to play that game too.

IMHO, our core players are running the show. As long as they continue to do this, the longer we'll see the exact same results despite the coaches behind the bench and the coaches running the practice sessions.

JMHO.

Very well written explanation for non hockey fans out there .. bottom line is hockey is 80% recruiting as a coach you need to recruit your own team with guys who inherently want to play your system .. you can get guys to make slight changes to their games which is why coaching helps out 25% of time .. in pro hockey it gets difficult due to CBA and CAP issues

 

[Mess]

Its really disappointing that the Leaf players are really letting down their coach now with the 2nd loss against his former team.

Leafs inability to come up with wins for their coach, which makes these games more meaningful then just regular season games with something extra special on the line then that doesn't bode well for more important playoff games down the road.

The PP with all that expensive talent continues to struggle among the worst in the NHL.

 

[Antropovsky]

It's like I said, you're reading WAY too much into a throwaway quote.

But to answer your question some top guys have had issues finding fit. Crosby went through a number of wingers and couldn't gel with Hossa or Kessel. That's the most notable example.

Marner and Matthews have also had success together with Hyman, Bunting and now Knies. Really it's just Bert who couldn't fit with them - he also struggled for most of the year prior
and then again this year. While Matthews has been fine with Willy, Marners found a fit with JT, Kadri, Marleau, Komarov even Marleau

But sure, they're impossible to play with.

Who said they are impossible to play with? Sounds like you are attacking something that nobody ever said.

A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction

Didnt Marner and Komarov play all off 60mins together?

Mark Masters posted the quote. Check the comments—most of it is fans not impressed and overanalyzing a throwaway remark. So I guess I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

Marner said more than this about Knies. Masters posted this particular comment because he knew it was off.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1852765854519169490

 

[thewave]

Who said they are impossible to play with? Sounds like you are attacking something that nobody ever said.

A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction

Didnt Marner and Komarov play all off 60mins together?

Mark Masters posted the quote. Check the comments—most of it is fans not impressed and overanalyzing a throwaway remark. So I guess I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1852765854519169490

Is he talking about the wall? The weird wall? The weird perimeter wall?

 

[Antropovsky]

Is he talking about the wall? The weird wall? The weird perimeter wall?

Numerous fans state the obvious in the comments. Its a bad quote for many reasons.

 

[Gallagbi]

Who said they are impossible to play with? Sounds like you are attacking something that nobody ever said.

A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction

Didnt Marner and Komarov play all off 60mins together?

Mark Masters posted the quote. Check the comments—most of it is fans not impressed and overanalyzing a throwaway remark. So I guess I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

Marner said more than this about Knies. Masters posted this particular comment because he knew it was off.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1852765854519169490

Honestly man, get out of your own way. There's legitimate concerns with Marner you don't have to be this f***ing pathetic with your rationale. Stick to your valid criticisms instead of this nonsense.

Be better than the Twitter comments. Be smart enough to know you can swap Komarov with Bozak and JVR if needed.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Well Knies and Tavares aren't bad shooters, Tavares still has a nice wrister in the slot and Knies has a good hard shot that just needs a bit more accuracy. That's the current top-6 anyway.

Go to the bottom-6 and oh boy it's bad. McMann, Domi, and Holmberg, none of them are natural good shooters at all. Kamf, Reaves, Lorentz? Pretty bad too. I get it that it's the bottom-6 but you got Domi, Kampf, and Holmberg who don't even have a single goal 12 games in.

Being able to shoot from the slot should be the baseline expectation for a top 9 player though. Matthews and Nylander are the only ones that are threats from the circles, Marner can occasionally get a knuckler through from distance. Nylander’s the only real threat on the rush, maybe Knies gets there. Can’t really play counterpunch rush hockey, the cycle lacks options outside the slot which gets clogged up, no point shots to play for tips and rebounds, and we only have 3 guys that can power to the net reliably once Tavares and Pac hit a wall.

 

[Evilhomer]

Every thread here becomes a Marner debate at some point. It's tiring. Hopefully the Leafs win the next four in a row and the constant nattering dies down at least until the next loss.

 

[myleafs]

Well Knies and Tavares aren't bad shooters, Tavares still has a nice wrister in the slot and Knies has a good hard shot that just needs a bit more accuracy. That's the current top-6 anyway.

Go to the bottom-6 and oh boy it's bad. McMann, Domi, and Holmberg, none of them are natural good shooters at all. Kamf, Reaves, Lorentz? Pretty bad too. I get it that it's the bottom-6 but you got Domi, Kampf, and Holmberg who don't even have a single goal 12 games in.

Robertson has a great shot