Proposal: Leafs-Ducks

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Can we just like not do anymore leaf and ducks threads... I feel like over the offseason leaf fans have proposed close to a 100 trades to Anaheim.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Pretty laughable, don't wanna pay to get out of your crap contracts but will do without your top defenseman.

Leafs are better off just signing offer sheeting Lindholm. The deal that the Ducks would have to scramble to make to clear the decks to match the offer sheet would be a lot worse then this.

Stoner's contract is awful. Marc Savard's contract which is insured and can simply go to IR and not count against your cap cost a 2nd to move. It ends after this year. Stoner has 2 years left and he costs you actual money.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Pretty laughable, don't wanna pay to get out of your crap contracts but will do without your top defenseman.

Leafs are better off just signing offer sheeting Lindholm. The deal that the Ducks would have to scramble to make to clear the decks to match the offer sheet would be a lot worse then this.

Stoner's contract is awful. Marc Savard's contract which is insured and can simply go to IR and not count against your cap cost a 2nd to move. It ends after this year. Stoner has 2 years left and he costs you actual money.

All these fans say offer sheet, yet no one does it I wonder why

 

[Gavy]

Montour is also very under rated... but hey Anaheim woulda declined anyway

I know he isn't a Toronto prospect but maybe try google his stats and realize he's at one of the more needed position needed In the league, right handed offensive dmen

Oh no, someone doesn't think my prospect is a blue chip, that means he doesn't know anything about Montour

Scored 57 points in his first pro season at 21. He would easily fit Leafs top 4 right now.

Lol no he wouldn't. He's not bumping out Carrick or Zaitsev and he certainly isn't knocking out Rielly or Gardiner

 

[Randy Randerson]

Oh no, someone doesn't think my prospect is a blue chip, that means he doesn't know anything about Montour

To be fair, the "blue chip" label is usually bestowed upon guys with big pedigree. Montour had a great year and has a tremendous ceiling, but I don't think there's many who would put him in the same category as Werenski/Provorov/Hanifin etc. More of a high risk/high reward type IMO

Maybe this also speaks to the dangers of having one label that we blanket high level prospects with

 

[WTFMAN99]

All these fans say offer sheet, yet no one does it I wonder why

Eh, not gonna bother with the back and forth. Basically just saying I see a soft deal coming Anaheim's way whether it be for Fowler or attaching a sizeable asset(s) to Stoner to make him moveable.

Otherwise there is no pretending that Anaheim isn't desperate to gain some cap space.

 

[Community]

Leafs should be past the stage of taking on cap dumps and awful contracts.

They need to look to trade for a proven asset in an ROR esque deal.

As long as the contracts end by the end of the 2018-2019 season, there's no reason the Leafs shouldn't consider taking back cap-dumps for picks. Hopefully management gets some future picks (2+ years down the road) to be used for trades/re-stocking the cupboards when we start contending.

The biggest 3 re-signings are going to be Nylander, Matthews, and Marner and their new contracts won't kick in until 2020.

Personally, I'd only be willing to take cap-dumps that are done next year (ie 2 years left on their contract now) just incase the Leafs contend earlier than expected and we are looking to sign some expensive UFA's/Vets. However, we're gonna lose ~20m off the cap this year so we can easily stomach contracts for this year + next year. It'd be extremely difficult to get to the cap after this year without taking on a bad contract or 2 in a trade anyways.

 

[Fogelhund]

To Anahiem:
2018 Leafs 3rd Round pick

To Toronto:
Clayton Stoner
Brandon Montour

Thoughts??

I like this deal.

Montour would give us another RHD, and his career numbers in the AHL are much better than Carricks. 0.82 to 0.54 ppg.

Yes, we would have to move someone to do this, Hunwick maybe.... Montour to the AHL for the year. Stoner gets exposed in the expansion draft, and I wouldn't doubt if he'd be our guy to get picked off.

I'm sorry Ducks fans, you've got to make some moves, and there are only a limited number of guys you can move, to be able to sign Lindholm, and not seriously hurt the team. Everybody knows that.

When is it going to be important to get Lindholm back? When you are 1-3-1? 1-4-1 after Vancouver? 5 points after 10 games....

 

[Sojourn]

I like this deal.

Montour would give us another RHD, and his career numbers in the AHL are much better than Carricks. 0.82 to 0.54 ppg.

Yes, we would have to move someone to do this, Hunwick maybe.... Montour to the AHL for the year. Stoner gets exposed in the expansion draft, and I wouldn't doubt if he'd be our guy to get picked off.

I'm sorry Ducks fans, you've got to make some moves, and there are only a limited number of guys you can move, to be able to sign Lindholm, and not seriously hurt the team. Everybody knows that.

When is it going to be important to get Lindholm back? When you are 1-3-1? 1-4-1 after Vancouver? 5 points after 10 games....

It was important to get him back before the season started.

It hasn't become more important since then, if that's what you're suggesting. There is certainly no guarantee that with Lindholm we win those games. In fact, I think Rakell would have been more likely to be a bigger contributor to that goal. Defense wasn't great, but it wasn't the reason the team is 1-3-1. Being unable to score more than 2 goals was.

And it's no surprise you like this deal. It clearly favors Toronto.

 

[Fogelhund]

And it's no surprise you like this deal. It clearly favors Toronto.

Unfortunately for you guys, the biggest asset you are going to get back in any deal, will be cap space.

Toronto does this to get Montour, nothing else.... He would likely be on the Marlies this year anyway, due to other players needing waivers etc... So, it doesn't do much for us this year at all. So, no rush to do it.

 

[Sojourn]

Unfortunately for you guys, the biggest asset you are going to get back in any deal, will be cap space.

No kidding, but throwing in one of our best D prospects to get that space? Pass.

Every fan wants to gouge Anaheim. Fine. But don't try to rinse off a petrified piece of crap and sell it to us as something else. You aren't going to get Montour for a song.

 

[snipes]

No kidding, but throwing in one of our best D prospects to get that space? Pass.

Every fan wants to gouge Anaheim. Fine. But don't try to rinse off a petrified piece of crap and sell it to us as something else. You aren't going to get Montour for a song.

Isn't that the cost of a cap dump like Stoner though? No one is going to just do you guys a favour, it's going to sting.

One of Montour/Theo/Larsson will likely have to get attached to Stoner for a mid round pick. Ducks don't have any leverage.

The alternative is trading Fowler for a better return, which I doubt you guys want to do.

 

[Fogelhund]

Isn't that the cost of a cap dump like Stoner though? No one is going to just do you guys a favour, it's going to sting.

One of Montour/Theo/Larsson will likely have to get attached to Stoner for a mid round pick. Ducks don't have any leverage.

The alternative is trading Fowler for a better return, which I doubt you guys want to do.

Well... Fowler or Lindholm.... or Stoner... take a pick. Not many teams have the space to take on anyway... It's going to be a buyers market on this one.

 

[scan15*]

So called 'Blue Chip' prospect Brandon Montour is on the same level as prospects like Anthony DeAngelo.

Someone remind these ducks fans how much the Lightning got for DeAngelo. But make sure to remind them that DeAngelo is also 2 years younger than the great Blue Chip prospect Montour.

Right now, I'd say Montour has a 10% chance of turning into a decent player and about 90% chance of being a career AHLer.

 

[Sojourn]

Isn't that the cost of a cap dump like Stoner though? No one is going to just do you guys a favour, it's going to sting.

One of Montour/Theo/Larsson will likely have to get attached to Stoner for a mid round pick. Ducks don't have any leverage.

The alternative is trading Fowler for a better return, which I doubt you guys want to do.

I don't think the cost is quite that high, no. Not at this point. That could change. But if throwing in our 1st into a deal like that is suspect(and it is), then throwing in a Brandon Montour is more so.

 

[snipes]

Well... Fowler or Lindholm.... or Stoner... take a pick. Not many teams have the space to take on anyway... It's going to be a buyers market on this one.

Lindholm isn't going anywhere. I mean I'd like him out of the Pacific, but that would be insane to trade him.

So Fowler or Stoner + a prospect. Fowler is too crucial to your D, luckily for you guys you have 3 excellent prospects. I'd keep Larsson personally, highest upside and ability.

Stoner + Montour/Theo for a pick seems most logical.

 

[snipes]

I don't think the cost is quite that high, no. Not at this point. That could change. But if throwing in our 1st into a deal like that is suspect(and it is), then throwing in a Brandon Montour is more so.

Each day that goes by hurts the Ducks. Especially if you guys keep losing, Bob is in quite the predicament.

 

[Sojourn]

So called 'Blue Chip' prospect Brandon Montour is on the same level as prospects like Anthony DeAngelo.

Someone remind these ducks fans how much the Lightning got for DeAngelo. But make sure to remind them that DeAngelo is also 2 years younger than the great Blue Chip prospect Montour.

Right now, I'd say Montour has a 10% chance of turning into a decent player and about 90% chance of being a career AHLer.

He is? Based on what? I really don't see the statistics supporting that claim, and while Montour is older, he has continued to improve at an impressive rate. If DeAngelo started rapidly improving over the next 2 years, maybe you'd have a valid point.

 

[Sojourn]

Each day that goes by hurts the Ducks. Especially if you guys keep losing, Bob is in quite the predicament.

In the context of the negotiations, sure. In the context of needing to make a move? No.

Anaheim doesn't need to make a move until Lindholm is ready to sign. Creating space before that point actually makes it harder to win games.

 

[snipes]

In the context of the negotiations, sure. In the context of needing to make a move? No.

Anaheim doesn't need to make a move until Lindholm is ready to sign. Creating space before that points actually makes it harder to win games.

Certainly. I agree, you don't move anyone until you have the deal worked out and know how much space you need.

But once that's done, he'll be under the gun to move out salary ASAP. He'll have no leverage, it's going to sting to create space.

 

[scan15*]

He is? Based on what? I really don't see the statistics supporting that claim, and while Montour is older, he has continued to improve at an impressive rate. If DeAngelo started rapidly improving over the next 2 years, maybe you'd have a valid point.

LOL

DeAngelo is 2 years younger and had 10 less points last season. Even if his development stagnates over the next two seasons, he's still better than Montour.

 

[Sojourn]

Certainly. I agree, you don't move anyone until you have the deal worked out and know how much space you need.

But once that's done, he'll be under the gun to move out salary ASAP. He'll have no leverage, it's going to sting to create space.

Right, but that's the point. There is a general assumption being made that, because he hasn't made a move yet, that it means Anaheim needs to offer more to create space. That assumption relies on Murray trying to do everything he can, right now, to create space and being unable to.

I'm not suggesting he'll be able to get rid of someone like Stoner without sweetening the pot, but the desperation that people are saying exists is something I'm not seeing. I don't mean that Anaheim wouldn't need to make room. They obviously would. But if it makes no sense to make those moves until that point, why are we surprised that nothing has been done? Yet it's consistently used as an argument to try to pull some of our best young prospects away.

 

[Sojourn]

LOL

DeAngelo is 2 years younger and had 10 less points last season. Even if his development stagnates over the next two seasons, he's still better than Montour.

Yeah, you go ahead and make a poll about that. See who fans would prefer. Let me know how it turns out.

 

[snipes]

Right, but that's the point. There is a general assumption being made that, because he hasn't made a move yet, that it means Anaheim needs to offer more to create space. That assumption relies on Murray trying to do everything he can, right now, to create space and being unable to.

I'm not suggesting he'll be able to get rid of someone like Stoner without sweetening the pot, but the desperation that people are saying exists is something I'm not seeing. I don't mean that Anaheim wouldn't need to make room. They obviously would. But if it makes no sense to make those moves until that point, why are we surprised that nothing has been done? Yet it's consistently used as an argument to try to pull some of our best young prospects away.

The flip side is that Lindholm and the Ducks still aren't that close to closing a deal. So the lack of desperation isn't a good thing.

Once Bob has a deal, he's going to have to make a move quick. He won't be in the position to set the terms, teams aren't going to be lining up to help him out. The Ducks are a contending team on the decline, why give them a lifeline?

If Stoner is out, expect one of Montour/Theo/Larsson to be going with him.

 

[scan15*]

Yeah, you go ahead and make a poll about that. See who fans would prefer. Let me know how it turns out.

How about just the opinion of an actual scout?

Corey Pronman had Brandon Montour ranked at 118 and DeAngelo ranked at 104.