Toggle sidebar

Leafs desperately need secondary scoring

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
smitty10

smitty10

Registered User
Aug 6, 2009
9,887
2,792
Toronto
Secondary scoring is proving to be a major issue through the first 15 games of the season. The big 4 are accounting for the majority of our goals so far this year. Maybe this is a piece that a guy like Holl could be moved for?

How does Dubas address this?
Click to read more...
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20211113-093340_Chrome.jpg
    Screenshot_20211113-093340_Chrome.jpg
    89.8 KB · Views: 7
  • Like
Reactions: ottomaddox
Im all for moving Holl for a pick but I think the goals will start coming, roster looks fine to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pi
Wouldn't worry too much about it. Guys like Simmonds, Spezza, Bunting, Kase and to a lesser degree even guys like Ritchie, Engvall, and Kerfoot are getting chances. Sooner or later they will go in.

Secondary scoring is a problem for all teams.
 
Bunting and Simmonds are going to start burying chances soon. They've been robbed a few times. Kase is starting to finally "kase" in.

But at the end of the day, the Leafs doubled down on strong defensive players and bigger physical forwards. This team is not as offensively good as it was, it wasn't intended to be and it's time to probably understand that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lauro, Nylanderthal and hockeynorth
smitty10 said:
Secondary scoring is proving to be a major issue through the first 15 games of the season. The big 4 are accounting for the majority of our goals so far this year. Maybe this is a piece that a guy like Holl could be moved for?

How does Dubas address this?
Click to expand...
Its actually 3rd line scoring we need. We are getting scoring from our first 2 lines. And we know Spezza is going to chip in for at least 12 goals this season on the 4th line. I don't get why we don't move Spezza to the third line. He has the talent to score more, but not with 4th line minutes. Spezza could easily score 15 to 20 with 3rd line minutes.
 
The easier move will generally be to first look within and adjust the line combinations. Kase in particular is a player that I believe can offer more if presented with such an opportunity. Unfortunately, he's mainly been given a shutdown role on the third line and PK time (with barely even a sniff of PP2 time) thus far. Any even strength/5 vs 5 change would obviously alter what that third line is about though.
 
We are a star focussed team.

To get secondary scoring you need to pay for it.

We miss Hyman goals in front of the net.

our team never has many left wing goals. It’s at a record low now.
 
NMacrules said:
Its actually 3rd line scoring we need. We are getting scoring from our first 2 lines. And we know Spezza is going to chip in for at least 12 goals this season on the 4th line. I don't get why we don't move Spezza to the third line. He has the talent to score more, but not with 4th line minutes. Spezza could easily score 15 to 20 with 3rd line minutes.
Click to expand...
I agree. The third line is designed specifically to shut down, which has been admirable in their minutes, but provides little to no offense. Engvall only seems to score when he comes back from a benching, then cools right off offensively. Joey Anderson has shown an ability to score goals at the AHL level, as well as being a solid two-way player who forechecks hard. Hard to tinker with 7 wins in 8 games, but I'd like to see Anderson get a game in Engvall's spot. Anderson being a RW would create some shuffle. Nylander goes to his off wing like he's capable of, and Kase gets a promotion to try and show his old 20 goal form. Reshuffle:
Nylander-Matthews-Kase
Bunting-Tavares-Marner
Kerfoot-Kampf-Anderson
Ritchie-Spezza-Simmonds

Think this could unleash Kase, who has more goal scoring potential than Kerfoot in the top 6 imo. And Anderson could help add offense to that third line, while keeping that third line fast, and defensively responsible still.
 
  • Like
Reactions: saffronleaf
Was thinking about this last night.

From an outside in perspective, over the last 3 full seasons played (~93 team seasons) 42 teams finished with 240 goals or more, 12 with 270 or more. So rough barometer 240 = solidly top half offensive team, 270+ in the top 4 teams in the league.

Looking at what we "should" get from the Big 4 - Matthews 50, Tavares and Nylander 35 a piece, Marner 25, that's 145, and likely a conservative number. Then 15 each from Bunting and Kerfoot to round out the top 6 takes us to a conservative 175. Rielly and Muzzin good for 15 between them, that's 190. So we're to 50-80 goals from the bottom 6F,bottom 4D, call ups, and spares. Currently have 9 in 15 games, while missing Mikheyev, Simmonds being snakebit, Ritchie showing why he's known as an inconsistent player, Sandin and Liljegren getting aclimated as everyday players. Even at that current pace (that we all think is too low for that group, that's another 40 goals, taking us to 49 from the depth, bang on top half of the league.

From the inside out, I think that we've quietly (and perhaps temporarily) acknowledged the cap situation caused by the star allocation and shifted gears to a pure traditional top 6 / bottom 6. Two high end first lines, a shut down line, and a heavy line, rather than trying to have 4 line deep offense. I think that there's still hope that the depth steps up (particularly Kase and Ritchie), but if you didn't like our F groups versatility and lack of line identity before- that's been addressed.

That being said, I think getting Mik back on the 3rd line could be a boost, and I'd like to see cheap 4C brought in to push Spezza to RW and have a rotation with him and Simmonds
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leafsfan74, saffronleaf and HamiltonNHL
SprDaVE said:
Bunting and Simmonds are going to start burying chances soon. They've been robbed a few times. Kase is starting to finally "kase" in.

But at the end of the day, the Leafs doubled down on strong defensive players and bigger physical forwards. This team is not as offensively good as it was, it wasn't intended to be and it's time to probably understand that.
Click to expand...
The best option is to wait for the trade deadline when the majority of salary is paid. Try to add a LW at that time just for the playoffs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: saffronleaf
Before I saw this thread, I was going to start a thread about the team's lack of defensemen scoring. The Leafs have gotten one goal from a defenseman all season. You need your blue line to score more often than that.

I remember when Rielly broke in he didn't have much of a shot but could still manage about eight to ten goals per season. He improved his shooting, peaked offensively with a 20 goal season and then regressed as a shooter. Now he is virtually a total non-threat to ever score a goal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lauro
For now I think they should just try to ride it out with what they have, and see how things look after Christmas.

Mikheyev coming back should help even though he’s a notoriously poor finisher, and I haven’t given up on Ritchie yet either.

Really a shame about Robertson’s injury problems last season and now again. A breakthrough for him as a scoring threat would have been exactly what we could have used now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: saffronleaf, SprDaVE and kb
I am a little concerned about the lack of secondary scoring but I am impressed that they have been winning a lot of low scoring grind it out games.

This is something they have not been able to do in the past. I am pleasantly surprised!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4thline
It's not even a matter of the third and fourth lines.

Four players have accounted for 23 of the 38 goals. The other ten forwards have 14 between them, and the defence have a grand total of one!

Even worse, while the top four are at least managing to keep even, the rest are a combined -24, so they aren't even very effective defensively.

In the playoffs, teams ramp up their defensive and physical play, and with the possible exception of Tavares, our Fantastic Four become the Frightened Four.
 
NMacrules said:
Its actually 3rd line scoring we need. We are getting scoring from our first 2 lines. And we know Spezza is going to chip in for at least 12 goals this season on the 4th line. I don't get why we don't move Spezza to the third line. He has the talent to score more, but not with 4th line minutes. Spezza could easily score 15 to 20 with 3rd line minutes.
Click to expand...

The 3rd line rarely starts in the offensive zone. So unless Keefe completely abandons the checking line idea, then Spezza's production wouldn't be any better.
 
Jamason said:
It's not even a matter of the third and fourth lines.

Four players have accounted for 23 of the 38 goals. The other ten forwards have 14 between them, and the defence have a grand total of one!

Even worse, while the top four are at least managing to keep even, the rest are a combined -24, so they aren't even very effective defensively.

In the playoffs, teams ramp up their defensive and physical play, and with the possible exception of Tavares, our Fantastic Four become the Frightened Four.
Click to expand...
I think you're forgetting which forward it was who put the team on his back last playoffs and nearly willed them to R2... carrying waiver fodder and either a broken Foligno or Kerfoot
 
4thline said:
So we're to 50-80 goals from the bottom 6F,bottom 4D, call ups, and spares. Currently have 9 in 15 games, while missing Mikheyev, Simmonds being snakebit, Ritchie showing why he's known as an inconsistent player, Sandin and Liljegren getting aclimated as everyday players. Even at that current pace (that we all think is too low for that group, that's another 40 goals, taking us to 49 from the depth, bang on top half of the league.
Click to expand...


We need to be a low event team to win as those goals aren’t coming.

We need to be a low event team who relies upon out goalie-ing our playoff opponents
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom