Leafs Core Beyond the 2013-14 - EDIT Retool or Blow it up?

[DD03]

Bad team defense? Trade Phil Kessel!

Paying David Clarkson $5M for 4th line production? Trade PHIL KESSEL!!!

Poor defensive system? Trade Kessel!

Little support from offense after the top line? Trade Phil, obviously!

Sorry but the reality is trading Kessel won't help this team get any closer to a Stanley cup. The Leafs are a top heavy team, with little production from anybody after Kessel, JVR, and Bernier. How anybody can think he is the problem is baffling.

Look at Patrick Kane. He is more or less very very similar to Kessel in terms of playing style. But yet he has 2 Stanley Cups. Gee, do you think it's because he has some sort of magical will to win that Kessel doesn't? Or is it because he's surrounded by a supporting cast that doesn't include boneheads like Franson and Clarkson and inconsistent, one-dimensional forwards like Lupul and Kadri and a poor defensive system that allows the team to get dominated on seemingly every shift.

You can change Phil with Sidney Crosby for crying out loud and this team would still not find success because the team still wouldn't know how to defend any better.

Absolutely ridiculous proposition to trade Kessel as if it will help this team in any way. Ridiculous.

You can tell by looking at their work ethics alone. 24/7 told us everything we needed to know about Phil and his work ethic. Kane wants the puck, if he loses the puck he goes and gets the puck, he's not scared to go anywhere in the ice and he's not afraid to get killed to make a play. Kane isn't physical, but he knows how to get the puck back by using his speed and his hands that he has. The skills he has. Too often we see Phil floating or just not even trying on certain plays. Or when there's a hit coming, Phil instead of making the play would rather dodge and throw the puck to nobody. Too often. Kessel was in front of the net tonight with a few other guys and he couldn't get out of there fast enough, instead of making a play on the puck that was in his skates, he didn't even look down, he just looked for a way back out because he was scared to get touched! Doesn't matter what the core is but Kessel is getting paid top dollars and he won't go to 45% of the ice.

 

[Diatomic]

Trade Dion, Kessel, Bozak, Lupul, Franson, Reimer. Keep the young guns while adding more from trading the old players and let's claw our way to success.

 

[DD03]

He's a supporting piece that is a core piece on this team. He is a game breaker, every team can use one or 2 players like Phil and JVR, problem with this team, is 5 other guys think they can play like Phil and JVR, Need to insulate them with better 2 way players.

Kessel is getting paid 8 million dollars a season. He needs to actually play, train, and work like he's earning 8 million. Too often, unless he's scoring, he's not doing that. Specially defensively. He really leaves a lot to be desired and I really don't see how he will lead us to the Cup unless we do some serious overhauling a really insulate him like we had to do during the playoffs.

 

[bonjovi0308]

Bad team defense? Trade Phil Kessel!

Paying David Clarkson $5M for 4th line production? Trade PHIL KESSEL!!!

Poor defensive system? Trade Kessel!

Little support from offense after the top line? Trade Phil, obviously!

Sorry but the reality is trading Kessel won't help this team get any closer to a Stanley cup. The Leafs are a top heavy team, with little production from anybody after Kessel, JVR, and Bernier. How anybody can think he is the problem is baffling.

Look at Patrick Kane. He is more or less very very similar to Kessel in terms of playing style. But yet he has 2 Stanley Cups. Gee, do you think it's because he has some sort of magical will to win that Kessel doesn't? Or is it because he's surrounded by a supporting cast that doesn't include boneheads like Franson and Clarkson and inconsistent, one-dimensional forwards like Lupul and Kadri and a poor defensive system that allows the team to get dominated on seemingly every shift.

You can change Phil with Sidney Crosby for crying out loud and this team would still not find success because the team still wouldn't know how to defend any better.

Absolutely ridiculous proposition to trade Kessel as if it will help this team in any way. Ridiculous.

Exploring trade proposals for Kessel doesn't mean he sucks. You need to trade away something good for other good things. Normally by trading Kessel we might get some more well-balanced players, which in turn could create better team chemistry.

Not sure you follow basketball but this is what happened to the Raps once they traded Rudy Gay. And BTW Rudy has been doing good with his new team too, but I don't think the Raps miss him at all.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

You can tell by looking at their work ethics alone. 24/7 told us everything we needed to know about Phil and his work ethic. Kane wants the puck, if he loses the puck he goes and gets the puck, he's not scared to go anywhere in the ice and he's not afraid to get killed to make a play. Kane isn't physical, but he knows how to get the puck back by using his speed and his hands that he has. The skills he has. Too often we see Phil floating or just not even trying on certain plays. Or when there's a hit coming, Phil instead of making the play would rather dodge and throw the puck to nobody. Too often. Kessel was in front of the net tonight with a few other guys and he couldn't get out of there fast enough, instead of making a play on the puck that was in his skates, he didn't even look down, he just looked for a way back out because he was scared to get touched! Doesn't matter what the core is but Kessel is getting paid top dollars and he won't go to 45% of the ice.

Patrick Kane is more willing to play in traffic since he tends to slow down the game. Kessel is a attacking forward and needs a PWF centre to better insulate him. Trading him for a #1D should be considered IMO.

 

[bonjovi0308]

You can tell by looking at their work ethics alone. 24/7 told us everything we needed to know about Phil and his work ethic. Kane wants the puck, if he loses the puck he goes and gets the puck, he's not scared to go anywhere in the ice and he's not afraid to get killed to make a play. Kane isn't physical, but he knows how to get the puck back by using his speed and his hands that he has. The skills he has. Too often we see Phil floating or just not even trying on certain plays. Or when there's a hit coming, Phil instead of making the play would rather dodge and throw the puck to nobody. Too often. Kessel was in front of the net tonight with a few other guys and he couldn't get out of there fast enough, instead of making a play on the puck that was in his skates, he didn't even look down, he just looked for a way back out because he was scared to get touched! Doesn't matter what the core is but Kessel is getting paid top dollars and he won't go to 45% of the ice.

Well said. We need new players, new culture and new leaders.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Kessel is getting paid 8 million dollars a season. He needs to actually play, train, and work like he's earning 8 million. Too often, unless he's scoring, he's not doing that. Specially defensively. He really leaves a lot to be desired and I really don't see how he will lead us to the Cup unless we do some serious overhauling a really insulate him like we had to do during the playoffs.

I have longed maintained, we are one of the worst teams conditioning and training wise in the NHL.

You would think a team as rich as ours could afford a competent fitness and strength coach.

 

[RaskY]

Exploring trade proposals for Kessel doesn't mean he sucks. You need to trade away something good for other good things. Normally by trading Kessel we might get some more well-balanced players, which in turn could create better team chemistry.

Not sure you follow basketball but this is what happened to the Raps once they traded Rudy Gay. And BTW Rudy has been doing good with his new team too, but I don't think the Raps miss him at all.

I agree you need to balance the team and yes, we could get a good return for Phil, but he isn't a problem!

Kessel isn't good enough to do it all by himself. No player is in the NHL. How do you expect this team to go anywhere when our success relies on Kessel, JVR, and Bernier alone. How do you expect this team to go anywhere when our 2nd line disappears for most of the season, and our 3rd line is filled with detrimental pieces like Clarkson? And our defense is filled with boneheads like Franson and inexperienced defense-man like Rielly and Gardiner? So how does this somehow trace back to Phil Kessel, the 37 goal, 80 point forward as the problem with this team!? It is literally mind boggling how some people actually think Phil is a problem

Do you even watch the games? What's the problem with this team? DEFENSE.

Edit: Leave it to Leafs fans - who, after finally having a legitimate star player on the team - one of the best forwards in the game - want to ship him out because the rest of the team is filled with mediocrity.

 

[DD03]

I have longed maintained, we are one of the worst teams conditioning and training wise in the NHL.

You would think a team as rich as ours could afford a competent fitness and strength coach.

I really hope we change that as well. Watching 24/7 and watching the effort level that the team puts in off the ice, was actually a joke during the season. It really didn't seem like anyone took those work outs seriously except for Dion. (say all you want about him but you can definitely tell he tries in the gym and off the ice which is huge for a leader)..

I remember the 24/7 gif that was posted with Kessel being his lazy self barely biking, there were a few other guys who were going slowly for a think it was a cool down, but then you had Dion going hard. We need more players who take their work outs seriously. We can constantly say what we want about Phil and his work out regime, but we all know he's not in PEAK physical condition. It'd be unreal to see what Phil could do at PEAK physical condition.

 

[DD03]

I agree you need to balance the team and yes, we could get a good return for Phil, but he isn't a problem!

Kessel isn't good enough to do it all by himself. No player is in the NHL. How do you expect this team to go anywhere when our success relies on Kessel, JVR, and Bernier alone. How do you expect this team to go anywhere when our 2nd line disappears for most of the season, and our 3rd line is filled with detrimental pieces like Clarkson? And our defense is filled with boneheads like Franson and inexperienced defense-man like Rielly and Gardiner? So how does this somehow trace back to Phil Kessel, the 37 goal, 80 point forward as the problem with this team!? It is literally mind boggling how some people actually think Phil is a problem

Do you even watch the games? What's the problem with this team? DEFENSE.

Who's the forward who gets the most money and doesn't play defence? Obviously no one on the Leafs has played defence, but his ability to get the puck when he loses it, or even getting the puck out of the zone, leaves a ton to be desired and you're not going to win with his style unless the team is seriously stacked. He needs to lead by example since he's not going to stand up and say anything, and half the time (with the rest of the team behind him) he's playing lackadaisical defence, and just waiting for the puck. He doesn't go to get it and the rest of the team follows him. It's that simple. He's a leader on this team just as much as Dion is, and he doesn't do anything (just like the rest of the team) to prove that he's a leader except score goals. If he isn't scoring goals, he's not doing anything. (just like a majority of the team)

You don't set the tone of the game by scoring, you set the tone of the game by checking. Phil doesn't check. He skates, shoots, passes, and that's it.

 

[TMLegend]

I agree you need to balance the team and yes, we could get a good return for Phil, but he isn't a problem!

Kessel isn't good enough to do it all by himself. No player is in the NHL. How do you expect this team to go anywhere when our success relies on Kessel, JVR, and Bernier alone. How do you expect this team to go anywhere when our 2nd line disappears for most of the season, and our 3rd line is filled with detrimental pieces like Clarkson? And our defense is filled with boneheads like Franson and inexperienced defense-man like Rielly and Gardiner? So how does this somehow trace back to Phil Kessel, the 37 goal, 80 point forward as the problem with this team!? It is literally mind boggling how some people actually think Phil is a problem

Do you even watch the games? What's the problem with this team? DEFENSE.

The problem with Phil is doesn't really impact this team positively. He creates just as many goals as his line gives up. He might not be a problem, but he really isn't a solution either.

 

[DD03]

The problem with Phil is doesn't really impact this team positively. He creates just as many goals as his line gives up. He might not be a problem, but he really isn't a solution either.

It makes me cringe every time I see his line against other top lines. It's a crap shoot when we do that. We stopped doing it during the playoffs, we insulated him with Kadri and played him sparingly when we could get the right match up and then we pushed the Bruins to game 7. Weird.

 

[RaskY]

Who's the forward who gets the most money and doesn't play defence? Obviously no one on the Leafs has played defence, but his ability to get the puck when he loses it, or even getting the puck out of the zone, leaves a ton to be desired and you're not going to win with his style unless the team is seriously stacked. He needs to lead by example since he's not going to stand up and say anything, and half the time (with the rest of the team behind him) he's playing lackadaisical defence, and just waiting for the puck. He doesn't go to get it and the rest of the team follows him. It's that simple. He's a leader on this team just as much as Dion is, and he doesn't do anything (just like the rest of the team) to prove that he's a leader except score goals. If he isn't scoring goals, he's not doing anything.

You don't set the tone of the game by scoring, you set the tone of the game by checking. Phil doesn't check. He skates, shoots, passes, and that's it.

Like I said, put Sidney Crosby on this team instead of Phil and have him do all these things you want from Phil, and watch this team still not succeed. Because yes, Phil has weaknesses, but at the end of the day he is just one player and the rest of the team's failures cannot be attributed to just one player. This isn't basketball. Completely ridiculous.

 

[DD03]

Like I said, put Sidney Crosby on this team instead of Phil and have him do all these things you want from Phil, and watch this team still not succeed. Because yes, Phil has weaknesses, but at the end of the day he is just one player and the rest of the team's failures cannot be attributed to just one player. This isn't basketball. Completely ridiculous.

The difference between Crosby and Phil is work ethic. Crosby sets a standard for the team. He's an actual leader that the Leafs are missing. From what I can tell, all he cares about is the game and winning. Kessel is only worried about scoring. Every time Crosby has found a weakness in his game, that off-season he goes and fixes it. He's out there for every important face-off (wish we had that), the year after he fixed his elusiveness (don't think I've seen him really get crushed since that injury) and he's fixed a lot of his defensive game. There's a huge difference between Kessel and Crosby because Crosby brings the one thing we're missing. A guy who's a leader off and on the ice. Crosby is a gym freak, Kessel is a cookie freak. Crosby for Kessel alone changes the whole culture of this team, so I couldn't disagree with you more.

 

[RaskY]

The difference between Crosby and Phil is work ethic. Crosby sets a standard for the team. He's an actual leader that the Leafs are missing. From what I can tell, all he cares about is the game and winning. Kessel is only worried about scoring. Every time Crosby has found a weakness in his game, that off-season he goes and fixes it. He's out there for every important face-off (wish we had that), the year after he fixed his elusiveness (don't think I've seen him really get crushed since that injury) and he's fixed a lot of his defensive game. There's a huge difference between Kessel and Crosby because Crosby brings the one thing we're missing. A guy who's a leader off and on the ice. Crosby is a gym freak, Kessel is a cookie freak. Crosby for Kessel alone changes the whole culture of this team, so I couldn't disagree with you more.

DISCLAIMER: BEFORE ANYBODY COMES IN HERE AND THINKS HURR DURR SOME GUY IS COMPARING KESSEL TO CROSBY

But I don't know what else to say, if you think flipping Kessel with one other player would change this team? Would make this team succeed? That's your belief. I disagree completely, because hockey is a team game, and Kessel has far and away been our best player this season - and without Kessel we would be much, much further down the standings than we are now. Are we forgetting the months January to March where Phil literally willed our team to our hottest stretch of the season? Where we went 15 - 4 - 2? And of-course Phil wasn't going to keep that up for an entire season, but the fact that right when he stopped producing, the Leafs went in the hole, should tell you everything you need to know about the depth of this team. After our top line, and Bernier, this team is weak. And again, I can't understand how somehow people trace this back to Kessel being the problem.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

I agree you need to balance the team and yes, we could get a good return for Phil, but he isn't a problem!

Kessel isn't good enough to do it all by himself. No player is in the NHL. How do you expect this team to go anywhere when our success relies on Kessel, JVR, and Bernier alone. How do you expect this team to go anywhere when our 2nd line disappears for most of the season, and our 3rd line is filled with detrimental pieces like Clarkson? And our defense is filled with boneheads like Franson and inexperienced defense-man like Rielly and Gardiner? So how does this somehow trace back to Phil Kessel, the 37 goal, 80 point forward as the problem with this team!? It is literally mind boggling how some people actually think Phil is a problem

Do you even watch the games? What's the problem with this team? DEFENSE.

Edit: Leave it to Leafs fans - who, after finally having a legitimate star player on the team - one of the best forwards in the game - want to ship him out because the rest of the team is filled with mediocrity.

As I said several times. If we keep Kessel, Bozak needs to get off the top line. Phil needs a PWF centre that can set the tone and JVR is alone isn't up for the sufficient. However, by moving Kessel, we can acquire a young, two-way, top pairing defenceman to play with Rielly. Let's remember, contenders require elite top pairings.

 

[DD03]

DISCLAIMER: BEFORE ANYBODY COMES IN HERE AND THINKS HURR DURR SOME GUY IS COMPARING KESSEL TO CROSBY

But I don't know what else to say, if you think flipping Kessel with one other player would change this team? Would make this team succeed? That's your belief. I disagree completely, because hockey is a team game, and Kessel has far and away been our best player this season - and without Kessel we would be much, much further down the standings than we are now. Are we forgetting the months January to March where Phil literally willed our team to our hottest stretch of the season? Where we went 15 - 4 - 2? And of-course Phil wasn't going to keep that up for an entire season, but the fact that right when he stopped producing, the Leafs went in the hole, should tell you everything you need to know about the depth of this team. After our top line, and Bernier, this team is weak. And again, I can't understand how somehow people trace this back to Kessel being the problem.

Because Kessel's the leader. And when he's not scoring goals, he's not leading by example. He's not getting the puck, he's not back checking like he was during March and he's not working on his game. And even worse, off the ice he's awful. He doesn't give any effort and it's clear. That's what I'm telling you. For a quiet guy, to be our best player, he needs to be a good leader, on and off the ice. I don't mean speaking up but he could at least show he gives a damn off the ice. He doesn't seem like he does, only when we lose. But when he's on the ice, a lot of the time unless he's scoring, he doesn't give a damn. That's the difference and I'm not sure how you don't see it.

 

[William Hylander]

I would trade Kessel for an upgrade like Weber. Someone who puts Phaneuf on a #2 D role, but needs to be a defensive beast.

 

[RaskY]

Because Kessel's the leader. And when he's not scoring goals, he's not leading by example. He's not getting the puck, he's not back checking like he was during March and he's not working on his game. And even worse, off the ice he's awful. He doesn't give any effort and it's clear. That's what I'm telling you. For a quiet guy, to be our best player, he needs to be a good leader, on and off the ice. I don't mean speaking up but he could at least show he gives a damn off the ice. He doesn't seem like he does, only when we lose. But when he's on the ice, a lot of the time unless he's scoring, he doesn't give a damn. That's the difference and I'm not sure how you don't see it.

You're not going to find the perfect NHL player who plays every aspect of the game perfectly. They don't exist. Every player in this league has a weakness, you can ask for more from any player in the NHL. It's completely unrealistic to think Kessel can do everything.

You know what is realistic? Surrounding him with a proper supporting cast. With a proper system, with talented defense-man, with secondary players who balance him out. None of which the Leafs have, as proven this season.

As I said several times. If we keep Kessel, Bozak needs to get off the top line. Phil needs a PWF centre that can set the tone and JVR is alone isn't up for the sufficient. However, by moving Kessel, we can acquire a young, two-way, top pairing defenceman to play with Rielly. Let's remember, contenders require elite top pairings.

And then after the team is still sucking, everybody will be calling to trade that defense-man for a legitimate top line forward.

Like clockwork on the Leafs board.

 

[wmark]

If you are entertaining trading Kessel you have to include Bozak.

Who else will drive Kessel to the rink?

 

[yubbers]

Bozy would cry.

Someone would have to drop their pants something right special for me to deal Phil. Like Jesus and a 1st

 

[TonsofPuppies*]

Blow it up? Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

 

[DD03]

You're not going to find the perfect NHL player who plays every aspect of the game perfectly. They don't exist. Every player in this league has a weakness, you can ask for more from any player in the NHL. It's completely unrealistic to think Kessel can do everything.

You know what is realistic? Surrounding him with a proper supporting cast. With a proper system, with talented defense-man, with secondary players who balance him out.



And then after the team is still sucking, everybody will be calling to trade that defense-man for a legitimate top line forward.

Like clockwork on the Leafs board.

I'm not asking him to do everything. But he can at least take his job seriously during the off-season and off the ice. It's clear he doesn't and he's a leader on this team. When the rest of the team sees what it takes to get 8 million of course they're going to follow along. He can't be getting paid 8 million on this team and be our best player. There's no way we can build a proper supporting cast. How are we going to go about doing that? Trading who? Bozak? Nope because then we lost chemistry for Phil. You're not moving JVR, and the likely hood of Lupul getting us a decent return isn't likely unless we move some of our best assets. So why not just move the one person we're having the biggest problem "building" around?

 

[RaskY]

I'm not asking him to do everything. But he can at least take his job seriously during the off-season and off the ice. It's clear he doesn't and he's a leader on this team. When the rest of the team sees what it takes to get 8 million of course they're going to follow along. He can't be getting paid 8 million on this team and be our best player. There's no way we can build a proper supporting cast. How are we going to go about doing that? Trading who? Bozak? Nope because then we lost chemistry for Phil. You're not moving JVR, and the likely hood of Lupul getting us a decent return isn't likely unless we move some of our best assets. So why not just move the one person we're having the biggest problem "building" around?

Lol, is there any other player on the team who can consistently score over 80 points in a season? Over 35 goals? Please, DD.

 

[Schennanigans]

Keep these core pieces.

Bernier
JVR
Rielly
Gardiner
Kadri

Trade Kessel and Bozak for weber or another #1. Trade Phaneuf if we can.