Rumor: Leafs considering stripping John Tavares of captaincy (per Kypreos)

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Believe it when I see it, Kyper lies a lot

 

[keonsbitterness]

Dubas laments not making more progress on all of those before Tavares, though he did talk to the trio about the impact winning the J.T. sweepstakes would have on their future standing.

“The thing I learned was once we signed John to the (AAV) we did, it lifted the lid on the entire ceiling,” he said.

That should end the argument about whether JT's UFA deal had an effect on the RFA deals of Matthews and Marner. Dubas is saying it clearly did.

 

[tmlms13]

Who cares who has it honestly? What on-ice difference does it make? Who's the default to talk to the Ref? The 3 A's are the only ones who'd get the new C so it's not like it's that new to them. According to reports Rielly is the ones who does the most amount of Locker Room Speeches anyways.

Media talk to the people they want to, JT doesn't say everyone talk to me and leave everyone else alone.

 

[rojac]

That should end the argument about whether JT's UFA deal had an effect on the RFA deals of Matthews and Marner. Dubas is saying it clearly did.

I think if they hadn't signed Tavares, Matthews might have come in about 10.5 (about 1.1 lower). Eichel was at 10 already and McDavid was at 12.5, so Matthews was likely to come in somewhere between the two. It's also possible that he might have signed for 7 or 8 years at the 11.6 number he eventually settled on for 5 years. I think the Tavares signing had little effect on Nylander's hit, but I'll be generous and say that the Leafs could've gotten him for 6.4 instead of $6.9. And Marner likely still would have insisted on getting close to Matthews so I think he might have come in at around 9.9 or about a million less.

And we should never forget the worldwide epidemic that caused the NHL salary to only go up a total of $2M over years 3-6 of Tavares' contract.

But like virtually everyone else on these boards, I don't really know anything.

 

[Kazparov]

The problem is that any replacement is the same anyway.

Let's say you strip JT and give it to Matthews. Well, he's a part of the same core that thinks winning the first round is like winning the cup. Same goes for any other name.

Maybe the best solution is to strip the C and then give it to no one to send a real message.

Yes but think of the jersey sales with the C AM34!!!

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

We really don't have to look all that far back to show that changing captains help. The Sharks went from Marleau, to Thornton, to Pavelski. Pavelski brought them to the Cup final. I don't think Matthews is that guy, but we KNOW JT isn't. Has been to the 2nd round twice in 9 tries as a captain. Not to mention his junior career being a failure as well.

 

[Racer88]

That should end the argument about whether JT's UFA deal had an effect on the RFA deals of Matthews and Marner. Dubas is saying it clearly did.

Wow incredible that many of us that had been beating the drum that Dubas really messed up the Tavares signing and how it affected the cap structure of the team by increasing the other contracts were right all along.

Totally amazing, I wonder what else we will eventually be proven right about……….marner…..batter up

 

[Machinae]

That should end the argument about whether JT's UFA deal had an effect on the RFA deals of Matthews and Marner. Dubas is saying it clearly did.

Which is strange, because it shouldn't have. UFA vs RFA contract, and the lack of a culture of "no one makes more than our captain" like other teams had, spoke more of the character of the players than anything else.

Dubas monumentally screwed this up regardless, but no other franchise has had this issue with their players. They should have been rejoicing the fact that the lineup was augmented for free with a star player in his prime, but instead they all licked their chops at the pay raises they were about to argue for? wtf?

Matthews aside, Nylander and Marner both signed way above their comparables and for less term. wtf is going on. it wasn't even a long term bet that got cut short by the pandemic. Pasta, Ehlers, etc. and Point, Rantanen etc. all signed for less a year before or at the same time.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Not to mention his junior career being a failure as well.

Wtf are you talking about?

Exceptional status, CHL Rookie of the year, OHL and CHL Most Valuable Player.

Most OHL goals of all time with 215.

2 x World Jr. Champion and WJC most valuable player.

Failure indeed.

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

Wow incredible that many of us that had been beating the drum that Dubas really messed up the Tavares signing and how it affected the cap structure of the team by increasing the other contracts were right all along.

Totally amazing, I wonder what else we will eventually be proven right about……….marner…..batter up

It only affected the cap structure of the team because Dubas let it.

When negotiations were ongoing he should have taken the Big 3 aside and told them straight:

"You've got 1/3 of JT's NHL experience, you are only on your RFA contracts and you are NOT getting his number or close to it. Call me on your UFA round, I'd be happy to talk then. It will really help your cause if you win a few rounds in the post season. If you can't do that, well....."

 

[Apex Predator]

It only affected the cap structure of the team because Dubas let it.

When negotiations were ongoing he should have taken the Big 3 aside and told them straight:

"You've got 1/3 of JT's NHL experience, you are only on your RFA contracts and you are NOT getting his number or close to it. Call me on your UFA round, I'd be happy to talk then. It will really help your cause if you win a few rounds in the post season. If you can't do that, well....."

Those guys should have come under Tavares. I always thought signing Tavares meant for there first contracts they would be under him. Nylander can still get his 6 but lower like 6.3 to 6.5. Matthews could have been between 9 and 10 and Marner should have been 7.5 and 8.5.

The other part I don’t understand is why he never pivoted when the cap was flat and traded Marner? Marner had a lot more value back then. We know it hasn’t worked out and a change was needed. Why does he get a pass for not pivoting when the world change. He just stuck with his plan and didn’t adjust.

 

[rielledup]

Which is strange, because it shouldn't have. UFA vs RFA contract, and the lack of a culture of "no one makes more than our captain" like other teams had, spoke more of the character of the players than anything else.

Dubas monumentally screwed this up regardless, but no other franchise has had this issue with their players. They should have been rejoicing the fact that the lineup was augmented for free with a star player in his prime, but instead they all licked their chops at the pay raises they were about to argue for? wtf?

Matthews aside, Nylander and Marner both signed way above their comparables and for less term. wtf is going on. it wasn't even a long term bet that got cut short by the pandemic. Pasta, Ehlers, etc. and Point, Rantanen etc. all signed for less a year before or at the same time.

I dont understand why people keep making this point about Marner about how did he sign for so much more than his comparables. Marner was clearly comparing himself to AM and after the season he had he wasn't going to sign for like 2 or 3 mil less than AM.

But yea, this definitely atleast makes AM look worse by using JTs contract as a comparable. AM could've signed for less than JT without getting blowback from other players or the players association because people would understand that UFA vs RFA is a different situation. Looks like pure greed or ego.

 

[notDatsyuk]

That should end the argument about whether JT's UFA deal had an effect on the RFA deals of Matthews and Marner. Dubas is saying it clearly did.

That could be embarassing for me.

If Dubas says it had an effect on later deals, I may have to agree with dekes that it didn't.

 

[Machinae]

I dont understand why people keep making this point about Marner about how did he sign for so much more than his comparables. Marner was clearly comparing himself to AM and after the season he had he wasn't going to sign for like 2 or 3 mil less than AM.

But yea, this definitely atleast makes AM look worse by using JTs contract as a comparable. AM could've signed for less than JT without getting blowback from other players or the players association because people would understand that UFA vs RFA is a different situation. Looks like pure greed or ego.

There is no comparison between Marner and Matthews though. One is a generational goal scoring center and one is a soft playmaking winger. Do you want to guess which one is more valuable, and by a significant margin?

 

[Hellcat]

The C on the uni is over stated. It's AM's team but I feel Morgan is a natural choice if JT is no longer captain

 

[rielledup]

There is no comparison between Marner and Matthews though. One is a generational goal scoring center and one is a soft playmaking winger. Do you want to guess which one is more valuable, and by a significant margin?

At the time of those contracts being signed Matthews wasn't the 60 goal 100 point selke nominee player he is today and the difference between the two wasn't big.

 

[Jojalu]

If they’re going to do it, let it happen naturally. Let Tavares walk after the season and move the C to Matthews then.
Classless to do it while Tavares is still on the team. For all his flaws he doesn’t deserve that, IMO.

Tavares has never had a lack of effort in my opinion.

Why bother stripping him this year? Drama for the sake of drama.

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

Wtf are you talking about?

Exceptional status, CHL Rookie of the year, OHL and CHL Most Valuable Player.

Most OHL goals of all time with 215.

2 x World Jr. Champion and WJC most valuable player.

Failure indeed.

As well as 0 OHL championships, and 0 Memorial Cups. His OHL and CHL MVPS he won as a 16 year old. Which is fantastic, but was also his peak. And I will argue that Eberle was the MVP for Canada in 2009. For reference, Eberle had 5 points in the medal rounds, to Tavares and Hodgsons 3.

 

[myleafs]

Tavares has never had a lack of effort in my opinion.

Why bother stripping him this year? Drama for the sake of drama.

He comes across as very bland/boring and his style on the ice as a captain is pretty uninspiring. I have never seen him get involved to come to the aid of a teammate....like ever. To be fair none of our top guys ever do, but he is captain so I would hope he would lead the way, but he doesn't. Stamkos as an example gets involved, sticks up for his linemates, shows a pulse. Tavares gives an honest effort I guess, Ill give him that but he reminds me of a marleau type captain.....no emotion.......meh.

 

[notDatsyuk]

At the time of those contracts being signed Matthews wasn't the 60 goal 100 point selke nominee player he is today and the difference between the two wasn't big.

True. At that time they should have been signed for similar amounts - Matthews for about 8-9 and Marner for about 7-8.

 

[Sypher04]

True. At that time they should have been signed for similar amounts - Matthews for about 8-9 and Marner for about 7-8.

Matthews was never signing for less than Jack Eichel.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Matthews was never signing for less than Jack Eichel.

'Would' and 'should' aren't necessarily the same thing.

 

[Sypher04]

'Would' and 'should' aren't necessarily the same thing.

Okay, I’ll rephrase.
Matthews never would have or should have accepted less than Jack Eichel.

 

[The Shrike]

Wtf are you talking about?

Exceptional status, CHL Rookie of the year, OHL and CHL Most Valuable Player.

Most OHL goals of all time with 215.

2 x World Jr. Champion and WJC most valuable player.

Failure indeed.

The problem is they judge a players worth by the success of the teams they play for. Using that criteria, Pierre Bouchard (5 Stanley Cups) is one of the greatest players ever, and Marcel Dionne (0 Stanley Cups) is a bum.

 

[Racer88]

The problem is they judge a players worth by the success of the teams they play for. Using that criteria, Pierre Bouchard (5 Stanley Cups) is one of the greatest players ever, and Marcel Dionne (0 Stanley Cups) is a bum.

We have 4 super stars eating 50% of the cap. Isn’t it reasonable that we should expect to have had more than 1 single round win with these guys. If not then why the hell,are they getting so much of the cap