Proposal: Leafs - Canucks 3 for 3 block buster

[LeafingTheWay]

This thread got heated fast and yes I think Hutton can develop into a low 2 high 3 for sure this season and maybe more. You have to remember he was just a rookie this year. He played with poise on a weak team and will definitely get better. The Tanev and Marcicin comparison is either a bad joke or your Leafs glasses are broken im sorry. If Tanev is on the same level why on earth are so many Leafs posters asking for him? I apologize to Leafs fans as we have many homer fans as well so don't take this personal.

The Gardiner to Hutton comparison is laughable though in the same way of Marincin to Tanev. Like I said, I'm a huge fan of Tanev so I'm obviously making a sarcastic joke. Marincin did very well playing in our top-4. A better comparison would be Marincin-Hutton, not Gardiner-Hutton as that's an odd comparison to make given ones advanced stats are amazing and the others isn't.

Oh and BTW, Tanev to me is the perfect candidate because:
1) He's one of the best DFD
2) He's RHD and can handle top pairing (biggest reason)
3) He'd compliment Rielly perfectly

 

[BrockBoeser6]

Don't know why the Leafs really need two Dmen from a poor team like Vancouver.

The Leafs have two youngsters Rielly and Gardiner, one more year of Hunwick. Zaitsev might be a steady good Dman. Carrick looks like he can be NHLer. Marincin, Polak and Corrado can hold the fort till Valiev, Dermott, Neilson are NHL ready (hopefully for Leafs).

Leafs aren't going to trade Nylander.

PS. I think Canucks will regret taking the Finnish Dman from the London Knights.

I know what you mean. After one season we're all regretting taking Virtanen. It's just so easy to tell early on whether a player will be elite or not. Hindsight is 20/20 tho right? If only the Canucks didn't take a Finnish defensemen.

 

[bobg1]

I'd do JVR, Gardiner and Kapanen for that package and VAN can keep Virtanen. I wouldn't give up Nylander.

JVR is more valuable than ALL that package

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

hmm...
given that none are amazing at defense lets look at offensive point production
marincin: 24 y/o 3rd season 7pts
hutton: 22 y/o rookie season 25pts
gardiner: 25 y/o 4th season 31pts
hutton put up those numbers as a 22y/o rookie, due to the edler injury he had some nights where he would play close to 30 minutes a night and didnt look out of place. at 22 gardiner wasnt even good enough to play 20 games in the nhl let alone do what hutton did this year. hutton can overtake gardiner as early as next year.

as of right now: gardiner>hutton>>>marincin
in the future: hutton>gardiner>>>marincin

yea... the gardiner hutton comparison is indeed "laughable"

hutton has a better projection in the short term for sure, but tbf gardiner got messed around by carlye, by not using/ coaching him properly
and dont forget gardiners playoffs as a 23 year old he went beast mode in the boston series and had top pairing projections at the time. Also ur selling marincin short if he was that much below hutton leafs would not have reisgned him, he had a great second half of the season.

 

[eviohh26*]

I happen to think so too, but Canucks fans seem to think Gardiner is waiver fodder when he's the Leafs best defenseman at defending.

No one said that. We just don't think Gardiner is quite yet at Tanevs level. He has played great under a Babcock System but he is yet to show the pose Tanev has. He has the potential to be a great #2 but realistically his ceiling is Tanevs. Potential best #2 in the game. Which i believe Tanev has that locked down atm.

 

[eviohh26*]

hutton has a better projection in the short term for sure, but tbf gardiner got messed around by carlye, by not using/ coaching him properly
and dont forget gardiners playoffs as a 23 year old he went beast mode in the boston series and had top pairing projections at the time. Also ur selling marincin short if he was that much below hutton leafs would not have reisgned him, he had a great second half of the season.

5 points in 6 games is good run but far far far from beast mode.

 

[Killer Orcas]

The Gardiner to Hutton comparison is laughable though in the same way of Marincin to Tanev. Like I said, I'm a huge fan of Tanev so I'm obviously making a sarcastic joke. Marincin did very well playing in our top-4. A better comparison would be Marincin-Hutton, not Gardiner-Hutton as that's an odd comparison to make given ones advanced stats are amazing and the others isn't.

Oh and BTW, Tanev to me is the perfect candidate because:
1) He's one of the best DFD
2) He's RHD and can handle top pairing (biggest reason)
3) He'd compliment Rielly perfectly

Well either I'm under rating Gardiner or your over rating him. Either way to me Hutton just had a solid rookie year and put up 25 points on an awful offensive team. He's already a top 4 admittedly on a weak Canucks D but he didn't look out of place. I really think he will continue to improve his strength and his skating is already above average.

As for Tanev I agree he'd compliment Reilly well and just about any rushing defensive for that matter.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

5 points in 6 games is good run but far far far from beast mode.

wasnt just about points and those points were impressive

 

[Halla]

which landed u seed #30

as opposed to the nucks finishing 28th?

by that logic tanev is trash right?

saying hutton will be better than gardiner next year is laughable.
-25 with terrible possesion stats...but but but he was a rookie!

bottom pairing dman, nothing more. shut this one down, its getting ugly

 

[Halla]

No one said that. We just don't think Gardiner is quite yet at Tanevs level. He has played great under a Babcock System but he is yet to show the pose Tanev has. He has the potential to be a great #2 but realistically his ceiling is Tanevs. Potential best #2 in the game. Which i believe Tanev has that locked down atm.

tanev is the best #2 in the league?
easily the most overrated dman on these boards.
he is a lot closer to a solid #3 than the best #2 in the league.
pretty hard to be a top p[airing dman with 0 offensive ability.

 

[SillyRabbit]

Funny thing is that Vancouver should've had Nylander instead of Virtanen, and now look at how polarized the value between them has become.

 

[Killer Orcas]

Funny thing is that Vancouver should've had Nylander instead of Virtanen, and now look at how polarized the value between them has become.

It seems that way now but at time Virtanen seemed better bet and local to boot. Franchises make mistakes look at Kessel and giving up Seguin and Hamilton was it? Nobody's perfect but Nylander definitely looks like the better now them the breaks.

 

[Killer Orcas]

tanev is the best #2 in the league?
easily the most overrated dman on these boards.
he is a lot closer to a solid #3 than the best #2 in the league.
pretty hard to be a top p[airing dman with 0 offensive ability.

Offense doesn't isn't a requirement for top pairing. It helps don't get me wrong and is appreciated however back in 82/83, 83/84 a certain stay at home D man was on the top pair and put up 32 and 33 points in a high scoring era. Rod Langway also happened to win the Norris both years. Not comparing Tanev to Langway but just saying points don't make you a top pairing D alone.

 

[Clearthepuck]

It seems that way now but at time Virtanen seemed better bet and local to boot. Franchises make mistakes look at Kessel and giving up Seguin and Hamilton was it? Nobody's perfect but Nylander definitely looks like the better now them the breaks.

Better bet?? Virtanen was at the show at 19, until Nylander does something in the NHL Virtanen is the better player.

 

[Killer Orcas]

Better bet?? Virtanen was at the show at 19, until Nylander does something in the NHL Virtanen is the better player.

I'm not dumping on Virtanen and still think he'll be a fine player for us but since draft yes Nylander has progressed better at least to me and I'm a Canucks fan.

 

[turkulad]

Such an EA Sports move. Absolutely positively uninspiringly unrealistic.

 

[tony d]

Toronto's not trading Nylander

 

[Nithoniniel]

I'm not sure why some Canucks fans seem up in arms about Nylander being the better prospect. Pretty much everything since draft suggests that, but it's not an insult to Virtanen. Nylander is an absolute top prospect in pretty much every publication out there, most comparisons to him will be unfair to the other prospect. Furthermore, Nylander has nothing to do with how good Virtanen is, which should be the thing concerning Nucks fans. He could bust or become Bäckström, it changes nothing for Virtanen.

On that note, I do think JV gets bashed a bit too much. Sure, he's shown a weakness in terms of decision making and hockey IQ, but he's got a ton of physical and technical talent. It also seems that the more structured hockey at the NHL level benefits him, as that part of his game looked better once he was called up than pretty much any other level he has played in.

 

[Rex Banner]

I'm not sure why some Canucks fans seem up in arms about Nylander being the better prospect. Pretty much everything since draft suggests that, but it's not an insult to Virtanen. Nylander is an absolute top prospect in pretty much every publication out there, most comparisons to him will be unfair to the other prospect. Furthermore, Nylander has nothing to do with how good Virtanen is, which should be the thing concerning Nucks fans. He could bust or become Bäckström, it changes nothing for Virtanen.

On that note, I do think JV gets bashed a bit too much. Sure, he's shown a weakness in terms of decision making and hockey IQ, but he's got a ton of physical and technical talent. It also seems that the more structured hockey at the NHL level benefits him, as that part of his game looked better once he was called up than pretty much any other level he has played in.

Nylander is certainly the better offensive prospect, but there's more to hockey than offense. As a 19 year old rookie Virtanen is already manhandling NHLers, uses his speed to create pressure and turnovers on the backcheck, isn't afraid of the dirty areas, and doesn't back down when the game gets physical.

Nylander has a lot to prove still. Will he contribute away from the puck? Will he flourish in a tight, hard checking playoff series, or will he become a player that doesn't want to go to the dirty areas? Is he going to put up 70+ point seasons, or will he be a 50 point player?

Everyone is quick define these 2 players who still have much to prove. Nylander could be the next Segin, or he could be the next Gagner. Virtanen could be a bottom 6 player, or he could be a very unique top 6 player.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

No one said that. We just don't think Gardiner is quite yet at Tanevs level. He has played great under a Babcock System but he is yet to show the pose Tanev has. He has the potential to be a great #2 but realistically his ceiling is Tanevs. Potential best #2 in the game. Which i believe Tanev has that locked down atm.

Sbisaswan literally said Gardiner was close to being on waivers last season though

 

[LeafingTheWay]

hmm...
given that none are amazing at defense lets look at offensive point production
marincin: 24 y/o 3rd season 7pts
hutton: 22 y/o rookie season 25pts
gardiner: 25 y/o 4th season 31pts
hutton put up those numbers as a 22y/o rookie, due to the edler injury he had some nights where he would play close to 30 minutes a night and didnt look out of place. at 22 gardiner wasnt even good enough to play 20 games in the nhl let alone do what hutton did this year. hutton can overtake gardiner as early as next year.

as of right now: gardiner>hutton>>>marincin
in the future: hutton>gardiner>>>marincin

yea... the gardiner hutton comparison is indeed "laughable"

I have no idea what you're going on about. Gardiner is bery good defensively. Marincin is purely all defense with no offense generation at all. The same stats the show Tanev being elite defensively show Gardiner and Marincin being very good defensively.

Sure, lets go ahead and assume every D sucks defensively without watching them or studying their adanced stats. Tanev at age 22 was between AHL and NHL. Should I go ahead and assume Marincin and Hutton will overtake Tanev next year?

As of right now:
Tanev > Gardiner >> Marincin >= Hutton

 

[TeamBester]

Better bet?? Virtanen was at the show at 19, until Nylander does something in the NHL Virtanen is the better player.

So something like 97 points in 96 games between the ages 17 to 20 is nothing? In two different men's leagues? And 13 points in 21 NHL games also.

Compared to Virtanens 13 points in 55 games.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

hmm...
given that none are amazing at defense lets look at offensive point production
marincin: 24 y/o 3rd season 7pts
hutton: 22 y/o rookie season 25pts
gardiner: 25 y/o 4th season 31pts
hutton put up those numbers as a 22y/o rookie, due to the edler injury he had some nights where he would play close to 30 minutes a night and didnt look out of place. at 22 gardiner wasnt even good enough to play 20 games in the nhl let alone do what hutton did this year. hutton can overtake gardiner as early as next year.

as of right now: gardiner>hutton>>>marincin
in the future: hutton>gardiner>>>marincin

yea... the gardiner hutton comparison is indeed "laughable"

I have no idea what you're going on about. Gardiner is bery good defensively. Marincin is purely all defense with no offense generation at all. The same stats the show Tanev being elite defensively show Gardiner and Marincin being very good defensively.

Sure, lets go ahead and assume every D sucks defensively without watching them or studying their adanced stats. Tanev at age 22 was between AHL and NHL. Should I go ahead and assume Marincin and Hutton will overtake Tanev next year?

As of right now:
Tanev > Gardiner >> Marincin >= Hutton

 

[BrockBoeser6]

So something like 97 points in 96 games between the ages 17 to 20 is nothing? In two different men's leagues? And 13 points in 21 NHL games also.

Compared to Virtanens 13 points in 55 games.

They're still very young players and last time I checked there's room to grow for both. The difference between Virtanen and Nylander is the chips are all in on Nylander and the pressure is on. Meanwhile for Virtanen there's somewhat of an understanding that he will make mistakes and learn from them. I'm excited to see how Nylander turns out. The expectations of being an offensive powerhouse 1C isn't crazy to expect. But if it doesn't happen, any Leaf fan claiming it was some kind of guarantee will be laughed off the block on these boards.

 

[TeamBester]

They're still very young players and last time I checked there's room to grow for both. The difference between Virtanen and Nylander is the chips are all in on Nylander and the pressure is on. Meanwhile for Virtanen there's somewhat of an understanding that he will make mistakes and learn from them. I'm excited to see how Nylander turns out. The expectations of being an offensive powerhouse 1C isn't crazy to expect. But if it doesn't happen, any Leaf fan claiming it was some kind of guarantee will be laughed off the block on these boards.

Of course there is room to grow, but to say Vitamen is more proven because he played 30 more games in the NHL is crazy. The Chips aren't all in with Nylander. There is Matthews that is expected to be our #1 C and we just locked up Kadri who is hitting his prime and played real well under Babs and is a very good #2 C. If Nylander can compliment one of those two on wing would be just fantastic.

We also have Marner who is a very good forward chip.

I'm kind of confused how the Leafs are all in with Nylander, maybe you could explain further? I don't think any Leaf fan expects Nylander to play above Matthews.