Post-Game Talk: Leafs Blank Stars 4-0

[leafsfan5]

Leafs are 8th this year in blocked shots.
15th in hits
3rd in takeaways.

Is it possible they have begun to figure it out?

This is what Keefe said after game 7 last year. It appears they're learning from the Tampa loss, I hope they can keep it up because we're so difficult to beat like this

 

[therealkoho]

Top five in takeaways: Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, and Kampf.

Top three in giveaways: Marner, Matthews, and Tavares.

Giveaways and takeaways:
Marner: 31 30
Matthews: 27 28
Tavares: 22 24
Nylander: 10 24
Kampf: 9 20

Two of these things are not like the other three.

The other three leaders in giveaways (tied with 21) are Rielly, Giordano, and Sandin, who's had only three in his last eight games.

According to NHL Stats

Leafs are 4th in the league in TkA/60 8.96
Leafs are 3rd in the league in GvA/60 10.38

not great and certainly needs improvement but not as bad as it's made out to be, those 3 or 4 stretch passes that don't connect every game probably doesn't help this stat

FYI we're also 10th in the league in blocked shots

 

[GoonieFace]

This is what Keefe said after game 7 last year. It appears they're learning from the Tampa loss, I hope they can keep it up because we're so difficult to beat like this

Lol, isn’t this just common sense? Did all of these guys just start playing hockey? Or is the embarrassment finally getting to them and they decide to play the right way?

 

[leafsfan5]

Lol, isn’t this just common sense? Did all of these guys just start playing hockey? Or is the embarrassment finally getting to them and they decide to play the right way?

There is a journey of maturity that all teams go through on the path of winning

Not so long ago Tampa needed to learn this too. They had 62 wins and 128 points all to get swept in the first round by CBJ. Cooper was famously quoted as saying "We wanted to win 6-1, not 3-1" after the series. It taught them the need to play the defensive side and focus on that more. It requires a full-team buy in, from the superstars to the 4th liners, and they got that after 2019.

It can take time to build this, I hope we finally are there

 

[Nineteen67]

Not according to the scoresheet: Liljegren had two, but the others were one each by SDA, Marner, Bunting, and Tavares.

SDA had a couple and robertson at least 1.

 

[Jojalu]

Lol, isn’t this just common sense? Did all of these guys just start playing hockey? Or is the embarrassment finally getting to them and they decide to play the right way?

For the most part when you are a Superstar growing up coaches rarely teach you to defend.

They are so dominate as teens that blocking shots and backchecking is rarely needed and almost never punished as they put up multiple PPG.

There is a long list of stars that took their time becoming a complete player.

 

[Nineteen67]

Lol, isn’t this just common sense? Did all of these guys just start playing hockey? Or is the embarrassment finally getting to them and they decide to play the right way?

The organisation didn’t have a defensive mindset.

 

[kb]

A fair and balanced assessment here.

I was extremely disappointed with the move and still feel that Dubas did not use the extent of leverage that he had to get a better deal with more retention from Ottawa.

After seeing the non-sense that we've had to suffer through the last few seasons with our goaltending being unstable and having a direct impact on multiple 1st round exits, I was disappointed going into the season with 2 questionable goalies, and an untested 3rd in Kallgren, who I am not down on at all.

I like what I'm seeing from Murray and Samsonov, but it is still December and Campbell was All World around this time last year. It's a long season and the knock on Murray has been his ability to stay healthy. Hopefully he stays healthy. It would go a long way to how we feel going into the playoffs.

I'm a Leaf fan first, and I am not an anti-Dubas guy. He has his strengths and he has his weaknesses like everybody else. I won't cheer against anyone on the Leafs to fail and if Murray can stay healthy and provide stability in net, I will be giving him and Dubas their deserved accolades for a job well done........... I'm just not there yet.

Several things here....

#1) Ottawa said take it or leave it - they were moving on if the Leafs didn't take the deal. As the Leafs wanted the goalie, they took it. There was no more retention to get, nor picks. Not sure why this narrative keeps getting thrown around - both teams have come out and said this already.

#2) Not to sound bad, but I didn't see what anyone saw in Campbell. IMO one good month does not a starting goalie make. And his numbers now are even worse than his shittiest months here. Campbell had 1 month of over .900 goaltending all last season, and was 0 for 5 in series clinching games over the past 2 playoffs. Murray was always the younger, better goalie with 2 cup rings, but with higher injury risk too. It was mitigated by retention and the inclusion of 2 draft picks - plus the risk was only for 2 years, not 4-5 or more.

#3) People keep talking about the G risk going into the season. Who in the NHL that was available last summer who wasn't a risk of some sort? The closest was Kuemper, and I don't think that a 5 year commitment at the age of 32 was much of a lesser risk (given his injury history as well). All the other names brought up have significant risk too, because of the length of commitment it was going to take to sign anyone, and none were sure things. IMO this was actually one of the lower risk plays with the signing of Samsonov/equivalent. But then again, I believed in a healthy Murray.

There is zero harm in saying that "so far", this is a job well done. They targeted the right G's for this style of team. And it looks like the only thing that could derail this is injuries.

Having 2 high pedigree goalies does take a lot of the risk off the table, but imagine sinking that UFA/trade cap into one guy who underperforms or gets injured? That's far more of a risk doing that than what the Leafs did.

I was probably more optimistic than most.

 

[Notsince67]

According to NHL Stats

Leafs are 4th in the league in TkA/60 8.96
Leafs are 3rd in the league in GvA/60 10.38

not great and certainly needs improvement but not as bad as it's made out to be, those 3 or 4 stretch passes that don't connect every game probably doesn't help this stat

FYI we're also 10th in the league in blocked shots

The leafs aren't a typical dump and chase team. It skews the metric. Would love the league to start opening up their new stats that would infer true possession statistics. Then a metric such as #GvA per minut of possession would color things differently.

Not holding my breath though. The league sold their soul to the gambling dens and there is no telling how predictive the new data is. Vegas would hate to see open-sourced stats before they get some time to figure it out.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

This is what Keefe said after game 7 last year. It appears they're learning from the Tampa loss, I hope they can keep it up because we're so difficult to beat like this

Da trick is to ay close to Boston at top and then right at end of year AVOID a Tampa matchup at all costs .. do not want a Vasi matchup even with Murray

 

[Cecithepylon]

I’m honestly worried we may have a goalie problem… both are good what do we do? Maybe it was too SOOn for the media to make up their mind about Murray

 

[Twine Tickler]

Having 2 high pedigree goalies does take a lot of the risk off the table, but imagine sinking that UFA/trade cap into one guy who underperforms or gets injured? That's far more of a risk doing that than what the Leafs did.

This is basically it.

Murr succeeding in Toronto was just as likely as Soup or Keumper. But Murr's AAV allowed us to insulate him with a more than capable 1B in Sammy.

I never understood the narrative that we were in worse shape from a goaltending perspective from last season. We had horrendous goaltending for 70% of the year, by all of our tendy's, and somehow the narrative was that it was going to get worse. I am sorry, .890ish is about as bad of goaltending as you will ever see in the NHL over the course of season. Which is essentially what we got from Campbell, Mrazek, and Kallgren aside from the month of November 2021.

Kyle tried this same philosophy in the 2021-22 season by insulating Jack with what he felt was a capable 1B in Mrazek. Petr just couldn't stay healthy, and when he was, he was largely unimpressive. Overall we had 2 goalies fail. Unfortunately they were really the only options that were available to us at the time given our cap dynamic, but I think we could all agree we expected more from both of them. They were both given the opportunity to take the net, and neither one of them showed that they could do that over a sustained period of time. It was really not that big of a risk to replace what they gave us over the course of last season. It would have had to be historically shitty tending to get worse TBH

 

[81Leafs50]

total team effort. Gritty, grinding, tough win. Leafs blocked 27 shots.

Leafs haters are very quiet tonight.

 

[Judas Tavares]

 

[horner]

Great to see Murray respond to a weak outing against Tampa with an elite performance tonight. That's some impressive mental toughness

Can you explain what was weak about his last game except for the OT goal ?

 

[Twine Tickler]

total team effort. Gritty, grinding, tough win. Leafs blocked 27 shots.

Leafs haters are very quiet tonight.

View attachment 618273View attachment 618274

Not to shit on Soupy, Freddy, or Mrazek but you have to kind of wonder why they weren't able to get into these type of rankings. Traditionally they'd be among the leaders in W's but never near the top in SV% or GAA. Our defense has not changed all that much in the last 3 seasons, if anything it's just been less healthy.

I do think Soup and Freddy are good goalies with a weaker mental makeup. Something that came to light in times of adversity (ie. slumps, and series clinching games). I think that is why I was a bit more intrigued with the Murray acquisition then most. You can't get 2 rings without stones the size of church bells. I genuinely believe Murray has the mental makeup to handle our pressure cooker market. He also has the skill and ability to play the way we need him to. Not to mention I think his larger then normal style meshes beautifully in handling our deficiencies as a team. He battles in his crease better then any goalie we've had in recent memory. Makes the first save, and then drops his anchor on the line.

Hopefully he can stay healthy!!

 

[notDatsyuk]

According to NHL Stats

Leafs are 4th in the league in TkA/60 8.96
Leafs are 3rd in the league in GvA/60 10.38

not great and certainly needs improvement but not as bad as it's made out to be, those 3 or 4 stretch passes that don't connect every game probably doesn't help this stat

FYI we're also 10th in the league in blocked shots

Just to be clear, that's the third most takeaways and the fourth most giveaways.

I sometimes find the 'miscellaneous' stats quite skewed by home team counters, so I like to look at the 'road' stats.

Oddly enough, on the road we have the 17th most takeaways per 60 and the 20th most giveaways per 60. At home we've the fourth most takeaways and third most giveaways.

At home, 11.58 TkA/60 and 14.48 GvA/60.
On the road, 6.47 and 6.54.

Are we really that much better (and worse) at home, or is it just a trigger-happy bean counter at SBA?

 

[egd27]

#2) Not to sound bad, but I didn't see what anyone saw in Campbell. IMO one good month does not a starting goalie make. And his numbers now are even worse than his shittiest months here. Campbell had 1 month of over .900 goaltending all last season, and was 0 for 5 in series clinching games over the past 2 playoffs. Murray was always the younger, better goalie with 2 cup rings, but with higher injury risk too. It was mitigated by retention and the inclusion of 2 draft picks - plus the risk was only for 2 years, not 4-5 or more.

November can be a funny month to make too many judgements

 

[willmma]

Im I the only one worried about the 40+ shots against per game and all the 3 on 2's and 2 on 1's and even the breakaways?

Leafs are really missing TJ Brodie, Rielly and Muzzin/Benn.

Mete/Holloway are barely getting it done and Holls best quality is blocking shots.

We have only had 40+ shots against twice.

We have average 30 shots against and 31 shots for. I suppose shots against increase when we are leading and the other team is trying desperately to tie the game

Plus other circumstance like injured D and penalties.

 

[notDatsyuk]

SDA had a couple and robertson at least 1.

And JT at least three. I agree it looked like we got pressured into a lot of giveaways.

 

[Cobra777]

It is such a beautiful thing to watch this teams growing maturity on how well they all are playing defensively shutting down most teams with a lead as they always used to blow leads in seasons past. Also top two lines getting it going and Marner on fire in everything he does out there and every facet of hockey he is just flyin through it. 3rd line looked real good last night and our Goaltending is just OUTSTANDING with both Murray and Samsonov. This has to be their best November even with a depleted D core. I thought Timmins played well his 1st game. Go Leafs Go

 

[Notsince67]

One thing I know about this game. Even with no biases, I would pick Marner as the better player than Jason Robertson.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Da trick is to ay close to Boston at top and then right at end of year AVOID a Tampa matchup at all costs .. do not want a Vasi matchup even with Murray

The only realistic way to avoid Tampa and Boston is to win the division.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Anyone that didn’t hate the Murray trade is either a moron or a moron. It’s looking good right now for sure, he has been nothing short of amazing. Hopefully he can stay healthy and keep it up. I’m not getting exciting about this team until they do something when it counts, but the signs are encouraging

Interesting perspective.

A fair and balanced assessment here.

I was extremely disappointed with the move and still feel that Dubas did not use the extent of leverage that he had to get a better deal with more retention from Ottawa.

After seeing the non-sense that we've had to suffer through the last few seasons with our goaltending being unstable and having a direct impact on multiple 1st round exits, I was disappointed going into the season with 2 questionable goalies, and an untested 3rd in Kallgren, who I am not down on at all.

I like what I'm seeing from Murray and Samsonov, but it is still December and Campbell was All World around this time last year. It's a long season and the knock on Murray has been his ability to stay healthy. Hopefully he stays healthy. It would go a long way to how we feel going into the playoffs.

I'm a Leaf fan first, and I am not an anti-Dubas guy. He has his strengths and he has his weaknesses like everybody else. I won't cheer against anyone on the Leafs to fail and if Murray can stay healthy and provide stability in net, I will be giving him and Dubas their deserved accolades for a job well done........... I'm just not there yet.

I'm surprised people are still going on about this. It's looking so far like the best trade Dubas has ever made, so complaining about how it should have been better seems really odd. Since this was posted, a few people have explained why this disappointment is unwarranted, I'll just say that I agree with them and leave it at that.

I've said it before, other than Vasi, there isn't a goalie in the world I would be comfortable signing long term for top dollar and this is just further evidence of the chances you take when signing a goalie. Most of these goalies have been mentioned as guys we should target in a trade, that just underscores what a steal the Murray deal looks to be. Instead of giving up assets, we were given assets to get him, he's killing it so far and they're helping pay his salary as well. Sweet!

Just the other day I had an argument with someone who said that if we offered NY Marner and Murray for Panarin and Shesterkin, no way NY takes that deal. I said I'm not sure Toronto takes that deal because while on the surface, it may seem like Shesterkin>>>>>Murray which more than makes up for the gap between Marner and Panarin, goalies are voodoo and Murray looks so good, a few months from now, we might think that Murray>>Shesterkin.

Of course the gap between Marner and Panarin seems bigger than it did even a week ago, lordy that boy is playing some grade A hockey out there.

 

[Gary Nylund]

One thing I know about this game. Even with no biases, I would pick Marner as the better player than Jason Robertson.

Marner has the track record so I would agree with that. Robertson is cheaper, a bit younger so perhaps more potential upside so if they were offered Marner in a trade for Robertson they might say no. But then again, the fact that he has less of a track record means there's greater potential downside as well so yeah, I'd say Marner is easily more valuable despite the higher pricetag.