Post-Game Talk: Leafs Blank Stars 4-0

[Twine Tickler]

Anyone that didn’t hate the Murray trade is either a moron or a moron. It’s looking good right now for sure, he has been nothing short of amazing. Hopefully he can stay healthy and keep it up. I’m not getting exciting about this team until they do something when it counts, but the signs are encouraging

Not to be the guy who pumps his own tires, but I didn't hate the Murray trade when it went down. Did I love it? no, but I also saw it as just about the same probability to succeed over extending soupy. The only difference is that Murray only required 2 years of commitment and Soupy would have required 5+ at the same AAV. Murray was younger, and more proven over time.

Of course the trade came with an immense amount of risk, but no way it was more risky then extending a 30 year old soupy to a long term deal. All of this was just as clear in July as it is now IMO.

I think the major hang up people got stuck on this offseason was that they wanted there to be a clearer answer in the pipes. We acquired 2 goalies that presented much of the same as what we'de had in the past seasons. Too much uncertainty. People wanted clear definition of goalie X being "the guy". None of Murray, Samsonov, Campbell, Mrazek and most importantly any goalie available on the trade or free agency market would have provided that to us. Kyle decided to opt for 2 different versions of uncertainty in Murr and Sammy, vs. the 2 versions of it he already had. It was a decision that could have easily blew up in his face, but the huge differentiator is that the 2 goalies we ended up with wouldn't negatively impact our salary cap picture long term.

The modern day NHL is a very delicate art of talent acquisition/retention and balancing the books in the near and long term. Sometimes you have to make decisions that assume more risk in order to make the numbers balance out near and far.

I will add, the season is still young, and Soupy was the best goalie in the NHL last November. I was 100% in favor of resiging him then. I thought he was the answer. He proved not to be. SO the same can easily happen with Murr and Sammy. I am not naïve enough to suggest we have solved this riddle long term. But the early indications from both goaltenders is very very promising.

I am usually quick to defend Kyle, because I am a believer in his management style and his overall philosophy. So take my version of events with a grain of salt. But that said, I do think he deserves his flowers on this move to move on from soupy to get Murr and Sammy. It's a master class of asset management IMO.

 

[willmma]

I just got back from watching the WC in Qatar. Most out of the loop I have ever been with the Leafs in my adult life. Guess I should have never come back as this team has completely killed it since i left lol.

Someone give me a summary of the past few weeks!

Leafs are hot

12-1-4 since Nov 1st. .823 pt%
Marner is on a record breaking 20 game pt streak
Murray got one of the best shutouts in leaf history yesterday
Murray and Samsonov are top 4 of all goalies in the league who played 3 or more games
Matthews is getting back on track. 6 goals 13 pts in the last 10 games. 15.8 sh% (even better in the last 5 games)

Leafs are 3rd best in the league since Nov 1. And got 5 out 6 points from playing the top 2 teams in that period.

Pulled all this off despite being riddled with injuries on D. Muzzin, Reilly, Brodie and now Mete are out.


Now, please go back to Qatar and don't come back until July

 

[Eddo22]

Im I the only one worried about the 40+ shots against per game and all the 3 on 2's and 2 on 1's and even the breakaways?

Leafs are really missing TJ Brodie, Rielly and Muzzin/Benn.

Mete/Holloway are barely getting it done and Holls best quality is blocking shots.

 

[Jojalu]

Im I the only one worried about the 40+ shots against per game and all the 3 on 2's and 2 on 1's and even the breakaways?

Leafs are really missing TJ Brodie, Rielly and Muzzin/Benn.

17 of the shots were on the PP.

The odd man rushes came when the Leafs were on the PP.

5v5 they were far more in control.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Im I the only one worried about the 40+ shots against per game and all the 3 on 2's and 2 on 1's and even the breakaways?

We did allow a lot this game, but that's primarily a result of the PP time discrepancy and the extended 5 on 2 and a half.
At 5v5, it was pretty even.

 

[Eddo22]

17 of the shots were on the PP.

The odd man rushes came when the Leafs were on the PP.

5v5 they were far more in control.

True but was was only last night, doesn't explain the previous games.

Also 2 penalty calls on the Stars last night was ridiculous.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Im I the only one worried about the 40+ shots against per game and all the 3 on 2's and 2 on 1's and even the breakaways?

Leafs are really missing TJ Brodie, Rielly and Muzzin/Benn.

It's not all on the D but it stems from the bad habits they previously had, i.e. the penchant for the D to gamble on offence. They've gotten much better but work still needs to be done. I don't think Rielly is the answer if I'm correct that that's the problem, he's a riverboat gambler on D.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Im I the only one worried about the 40+ shots against per game and all the 3 on 2's and 2 on 1's and even the breakaways?

Leafs are really missing TJ Brodie, Rielly and Muzzin/Benn.

Mete/Holloway are barely getting it done and Holls best quality is blocking shots.

it's obviously not what you want to see, but we were down a man on the back end for the majority of the game and we had 7 penalties to kill. Not even mentioning the fact that our 3 best defensmen have been out of the lineup for quite some time.

I am really happy with how this team has stepped up in their absence TBH. It's almost as if it came at the perfect time too. I felt like we had been disconnected from the backend to the forwards all year long, and it was largely due to stupid mistakes in neutral ice. Trying to make low percentage plays that assumed higher risk. I think a lot of that has gone away since the injuries. It's almost as if the guys knew they absolutely could not do that anymore. In a weird way we may end up benefitting from these injuries on a structural end

 

[notDatsyuk]

No point from Nylander. Did he suck? Matthews are slowly starting to get things going.

Second game in a row where he could have had a goal and two or three assists with a bit of luck. It happens.

Flying as usual and looked decent on the PK. I noticed he's staying high on the PP more, likely to compensate for Sandin's lack of speed.

 

[robertmac43]

Now, please go back to Qatar and don't come back until July

I have no idea what one does in that desert wasteland when there is no footie....I'll make you a deal, i FLY Back as soon as the playoffs start

PS thanks for the summary.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This was maybe the most fun game of the season. Marner extends the streak and we take the lead quickly, just build on it and get the shutout, Murray plays his best game of the year, Marner shows he's a decent PK'er even without a stick and we end Robertsons's streak as a bonus. Only thing better would have been if our Robertson scored but he at least came close. Oh yeah, Matthews scored as well.

I'd forgotten how much fun it is to see a Maple Leaf goalie just stop shot after shot after shot and look like he could stop 100 more.


Fun!!

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Im I the only one worried about the 40+ shots against per game and all the 3 on 2's and 2 on 1's and even the breakaways?

Leafs are really missing TJ Brodie, Rielly and Muzzin/Benn.

Mete/Holloway are barely getting it done and Holls best quality is blocking shots.

Only happened twice. Yesterday and against DET.

DET was trying to throw everything at our net and we did a good job keeping things fairly clean.

Number of shots are less of a worry than quality, and we are actually doing a fairly good job limiting odd man rushes.

Yesterday, a poor patch of ice in the middle of the rink caused more odd man rushes against than anything we did. Dallas fell a bunch of times in the same spot too.

 

[LeafSteel]

Not to be the guy who pumps his own tires, but I didn't hate the Murray trade when it went down. Did I love it? no, but I also saw it as just about the same probability to succeed over extending soupy. The only difference is that Murray only required 2 years of commitment and Soupy would have required 5+ at the same AAV. Murray was younger, and more proven over time.

Of course the trade came with an immense amount of risk, but no way it was more risky then extending a 30 year old soupy to a long term deal. All of this was just as clear in July as it is now IMO.

I think the major hang up people got stuck on this offseason was that they wanted there to be a clearer answer in the pipes. We acquired 2 goalies that presented much of the same as what we'de had in the past seasons. Too much uncertainty. People wanted clear definition of goalie X being "the guy". None of Murray, Samsonov, Campbell, Mrazek and most importantly any goalie available on the trade or free agency market would have provided that to us. Kyle decided to opt for 2 different versions of uncertainty in Murr and Sammy, vs. the 2 versions of it he already had. It was a decision that could have easily blew up in his face, but the huge differentiator is that the 2 goalies we ended up with wouldn't negatively impact our salary cap picture long term.

The modern day NHL is a very delicate art of talent acquisition/retention and balancing the books in the near and long term. Sometimes you have to make decisions that assume more risk in order to make the numbers balance out near and far.

I will add, the season is still young, and Soupy was the best goalie in the NHL last November. I was 100% in favor of resiging him then. I thought he was the answer. He proved not to be. SO the same can easily happen with Murr and Sammy. I am not naïve enough to suggest we have solved this riddle long term. But the early indications from both goaltenders is very very promising.

I am usually quick to defend Kyle, because I am a believer in his management style and his overall philosophy. So take my version of events with a grain of salt. But that said, I do think he deserves his flowers on this move to move on from soupy to get Murr and Sammy. It's a master class of asset management IMO.

A fair and balanced assessment here.

I was extremely disappointed with the move and still feel that Dubas did not use the extent of leverage that he had to get a better deal with more retention from Ottawa.

After seeing the non-sense that we've had to suffer through the last few seasons with our goaltending being unstable and having a direct impact on multiple 1st round exits, I was disappointed going into the season with 2 questionable goalies, and an untested 3rd in Kallgren, who I am not down on at all.

I like what I'm seeing from Murray and Samsonov, but it is still December and Campbell was All World around this time last year. It's a long season and the knock on Murray has been his ability to stay healthy. Hopefully he stays healthy. It would go a long way to how we feel going into the playoffs.

I'm a Leaf fan first, and I am not an anti-Dubas guy. He has his strengths and he has his weaknesses like everybody else. I won't cheer against anyone on the Leafs to fail and if Murray can stay healthy and provide stability in net, I will be giving him and Dubas their deserved accolades for a job well done........... I'm just not there yet.

 

[notDatsyuk]

And giveaways...

Top five in takeaways: Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, and Kampf.

Top three in giveaways: Marner, Matthews, and Tavares.

Giveaways and takeaways:
Marner: 31 30
Matthews: 27 28
Tavares: 22 24
Nylander: 10 24
Kampf: 9 20

Two of these things are not like the other three.

The other three leaders in giveaways (tied with 21) are Rielly, Giordano, and Sandin, who's had only three in his last eight games.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Seems like the young guys were giveaway machines last night, and theyll either learn how to manage the puck, traded for a top 6 winger, or they’ll be handing out popcorn in the press box during the playoffs.

Not according to the scoresheet: Liljegren had two, but the others were one each by SDA, Marner, Bunting, and Tavares.

 

[therealkoho]

Yes, Murray's Shutout was nice. Marner's streak is nice. But I was happiest about Matthew's snipe.

He is back.

In the last 10 games he regained his snipe and his shooting %
Great numbers.

View attachment 618195


Last 5 games:
View attachment 618197

our boy is on a tear for sure, he got more involved in the dirty areas and good things started happening

crazy how that works, even Will is engaging and not just engaging but winning those physical battles

I'd still like to have a 4th line that pounds harder on the forecheck and softens up the oppositions D, only good things happen when you win the physical side of the game

 

[Fogelhund]

Anyone that didn’t hate the Murray trade is either a moron or a moron. It’s looking good right now for sure, he has been nothing short of amazing. Hopefully he can stay healthy and keep it up. I’m not getting exciting about this team until they do something when it counts, but the signs are encouraging

Some people have the patience, and often preach having patience, before coming to rash conclusions. I'd suggest, better to look and learn, than jump and actually end up looking like the moron. Being mad about the team after 7-8 games, wanting everyone traded and fired... rash impatience, end up looking like a moron that the sky is falling. Frankly, at 27 games, it's a bit early to really draw conclusions... although we look like we can compete with anyone at this stage. Saying you aren't going to get excited about this team, until they do something, yet simultaneously panicking and freaking out about a goalie signing, or the team after seven games, is disingenuous.

Yes, this team will be judged on the playoff success, or lack thereof... keep that in mind in the future.

 

[ACC1224]

A fair and balanced assessment here.

I was extremely disappointed with the move and still feel that Dubas did not use the extent of leverage that he had to get a better deal with more retention from Ottawa.

After seeing the non-sense that we've had to suffer through the last few seasons with our goaltending being unstable and having a direct impact on multiple 1st round exits, I was disappointed going into the season with 2 questionable goalies, and an untested 3rd in Kallgren, who I am not down on at all.

I like what I'm seeing from Murray and Samsonov, but it is still December and Campbell was All World around this time last year. It's a long season and the knock on Murray has been his ability to stay healthy. Hopefully he stays healthy. It would go a long way to how we feel going into the playoffs.

I'm a Leaf fan first, and I am not an anti-Dubas guy. He has his strengths and he has his weaknesses like everybody else. I won't cheer against anyone on the Leafs to fail and if Murray can stay healthy and provide stability in net, I will be giving him and Dubas their deserved accolades for a job well done........... I'm just not there yet.

The bold is it for me as well.

 

[therealkoho]

Not to be the guy who pumps his own tires, but I didn't hate the Murray trade when it went down. Did I love it? no, but I also saw it as just about the same probability to succeed over extending soupy. The only difference is that Murray only required 2 years of commitment and Soupy would have required 5+ at the same AAV. Murray was younger, and more proven over time.

Of course the trade came with an immense amount of risk, but no way it was more risky then extending a 30 year old soupy to a long term deal. All of this was just as clear in July as it is now IMO.

I think the major hang up people got stuck on this offseason was that they wanted there to be a clearer answer in the pipes. We acquired 2 goalies that presented much of the same as what we'de had in the past seasons. Too much uncertainty. People wanted clear definition of goalie X being "the guy". None of Murray, Samsonov, Campbell, Mrazek and most importantly any goalie available on the trade or free agency market would have provided that to us. Kyle decided to opt for 2 different versions of uncertainty in Murr and Sammy, vs. the 2 versions of it he already had. It was a decision that could have easily blew up in his face, but the huge differentiator is that the 2 goalies we ended up with wouldn't negatively impact our salary cap picture long term.

The modern day NHL is a very delicate art of talent acquisition/retention and balancing the books in the near and long term. Sometimes you have to make decisions that assume more risk in order to make the numbers balance out near and far.

I will add, the season is still young, and Soupy was the best goalie in the NHL last November. I was 100% in favor of resiging him then. I thought he was the answer. He proved not to be. SO the same can easily happen with Murr and Sammy. I am not naïve enough to suggest we have solved this riddle long term. But the early indications from both goaltenders is very very promising.

I am usually quick to defend Kyle, because I am a believer in his management style and his overall philosophy. So take my version of events with a grain of salt. But that said, I do think he deserves his flowers on this move to move on from soupy to get Murr and Sammy. It's a master class of asset management IMO.

This pretty much

 

[AvroArrow]

Best part of that game was looking at Anthony Stewarts dumbass face after the Leafs won

Honestly the skaters were out played for most of the game but they held it down defensively. Marner should get some serious Selke consideration this year. Sandin and Lily were phenomenal as well, that 5 on 3 PK was a thing of beauty. Overall I love the grit/determination they played with. Even though we didn't have puck possession a whole lot, they kept competing, blocking shots and playing as a complete team. A team that actually gives a f*** about winning and working together, that was the biggest positive for me.

 

[Notsince67]

No point from Nylander. Did he suck? Matthews are slowly starting to get things going.

not at all. He was fast, strong and also did a fine job on the pk.

 

[Jojalu]

True but was was only last night, doesn't explain the previous games.

Also 2 penalty calls on the Stars last night was ridiculous.

I think you are spot on when you said they miss Reilly and Brodie. Even Benn.

Playing with your 9/10/11 Dmen is not ideal

Top five in takeaways: Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, and Kampf.

Top three in giveaways: Marner, Matthews, and Tavares.

Giveaways and takeaways:
Marner: 31 30
Matthews: 27 28
Tavares: 22 24
Nylander: 10 24
Kampf: 9 20

Two of these things are not like the other three.

The other three leaders in giveaways (tied with 21) are Rielly, Giordano, and Sandin, who's had only three in his last eight games.

Nylander spectacular this year. Wow

 

[GoonieFace]

Some people have the patience, and often preach having patience, before coming to rash conclusions. I'd suggest, better to look and learn, than jump and actually end up looking like the moron. Being mad about the team after 7-8 games, wanting everyone traded and fired... rash impatience, end up looking like a moron that the sky is falling. Frankly, at 27 games, it's a bit early to really draw conclusions... although we look like we can compete with anyone at this stage. Saying you aren't going to get excited about this team, until they do something, yet simultaneously panicking and freaking out about a goalie signing, or the team after seven games, is disingenuous.

Yes, this team will be judged on the playoff success, or lack thereof... keep that in mind in the future.

No rash decisions here. Constant playoff failure with this group, the franchise hasn’t won a playoff round in 20 years lol. I apologize for not being happy pinning your hopes on two complete wildcard goalies, in a make or break season really. It reeked of desperation, and sometimes you just get lucky.

 

[Clark4Ever]

That was the most inspiring win of the season so far. Everyone dug in and left it all on the ice.

That 5 on 3 penalty kill sequence with Marner's broken stick was unbelievable.

 

[Twine Tickler]

A fair and balanced assessment here.

I was extremely disappointed with the move and still feel that Dubas did not use the extent of leverage that he had to get a better deal with more retention from Ottawa.

After seeing the non-sense that we've had to suffer through the last few seasons with our goaltending being unstable and having a direct impact on multiple 1st round exits, I was disappointed going into the season with 2 questionable goalies, and an untested 3rd in Kallgren, who I am not down on at all.

I like what I'm seeing from Murray and Samsonov, but it is still December and Campbell was All World around this time last year. It's a long season and the knock on Murray has been his ability to stay healthy. Hopefully he stays healthy. It would go a long way to how we feel going into the playoffs.

I'm a Leaf fan first, and I am not an anti-Dubas guy. He has his strengths and he has his weaknesses like everybody else. I won't cheer against anyone on the Leafs to fail and if Murray can stay healthy and provide stability in net, I will be giving him and Dubas their deserved accolades for a job well done........... I'm just not there yet.

Fair enough. I think even Kyle himself would tell everyone not to praise the deal for Murray until the curtain closes on Murray's tenure as a Leaf. His performance thus far is definitely better then even I would have expected when the deal was made, but a return to a previous form was never out of the question. Especially considering the fact that he was going from one of the worst teams in the NHL to one of the best. I will add, I sheepishly made the claim that a wager on Matt Murray for Vezina was a strong value play lol *humble brag*

as for the compensation to take on Murray's contract, I agree, I wanted a bit more. But there were a couple factors at play that resulted in this lower compensation:

1. we had just traded Mrazek's deal, leaving us with only Erik Kallgren under contract
2. Murray nixed a deal to Buffalo, indicating there was at least 1 other interested party. I do not know the terms of his NMC/NTC, but he potentially could have been dealt elsewhere . I think.
3. The Murray deal occurred prior to the UFA date opening. If we were to strike out in that market, the Sens would have controlled a significantly higher leverage in bargaining a deal to the Leafs. Again, we would have had only 1 "NHL" level goalie under contract at that time. I use NHL level very loosely in this case as well.
4. Lastly, Keumper and Campbell I believe were the only real big name goalies on the UFA market. Both of which got 5 year deals and both of which were over the age of 30. Sammy was a bit of a wildcard in UFA and IMO posed way more risk then Murray. I don't think any of us expected Sammy to sign for so little, and I know I certainly did not think he would play as well as he has. He needed a complete overhaul of his game, which he seems to have done just that. Whereas with Murray we were kind of only betting on his health. Still a big boy bet, but I didn't think it was as risky as hoping someone would just figure out how to be less busy in the blue paint (Samsonov).

Sure the compensation/retention could have been better, but at the end of the day Murray @ 4.69 x 2 years was better then both Campbell and Keumper @ 5+AAV x 5 years. Even if Keumper and Campbell start to play better, and Murray starts to play worse, I still would rather Murr's contract over both of those.