Leafs are the Victims: Editor in Leaf

[Bomber0104]

That they are "victims of a results-based industry that has really no idea how to evaluate a team" has to be the dumbest f*****g thing I have read in weeks.

Tanner on the internet does, though.

Just ask Tanner.

 

[rumman]

The guy's either a moron or trolling for attention.

Results are precisely how GM's are evaluated.

Who knew Dubas’ grandmother was a blogger?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I can think of several hfposters that might actually be Tanner.

There is poster that I actually think is James Tanner but I haven't seen them in monthd but the poster is a MASSIVE Dubas apologist

 

[colchar]

This just seems like perception above reality to be honest. The narrative that many push is MTL and CLB shut-down Toronto's offense and limited chances.

The xGF stat isn't necessarily about trading chances, it is a measure of carrying play and generating opportunities and it is why you'll commonly see it referenced both as a raw stat, but also a %.

For this year:
- We carried xGF
- We carried rebounds created (quick count shows we doubled the rebounds that the Habs had). So it's an odd claim to say we didn't have traffic.

None of which means shit. The only thing that matters - the only thing - is the final score.

I read something on one of the sports pages after the Edmonton series which said they had better advanced stats than the Jets. How'd that work out for them?

 

[colchar]

Hes a kid in moms basement. Still has mats sundin poster above his bed

Speaking of whom, anyone seen his stupid new gambling site commercial?

 

[ULF_55]

I've read a bunch of Tanner's articles. It's alway the same theme of how great Dubas has done as GM and a rotating supply of IF's.

Reminds me of a couple of hard core Dubites here.

To me it all comes down to the 1st. line just failing to deliver.

You can post all the positive/negative feel good/feel bad advanced stats you want and ... 1 goal explains it to me.

Not sure how many have to take the blame for such failure, coach, gm, players, or the individuals?

 

[TOGuy14]

Toronto Maple Leafs: Kyle Dubas Will Come Out of This a Legend

"The Toronto Maple Leafs are the victims of a results-based industry that has really no idea how to evaluate a team that got very unlucky."

Why is editor in leaf so bad? Is he paid by the leafs?

This James Tanner reminds me of a few posters around these parts.

This entire article is wildly disingenuous

The only 2 teams in the NHL better than the Leafs right now are Colorado and Tampa – two teams that combined to miss the playoffs in 8 of 11 seasons that featured the first five years of Nathan MacKinnon and Steve Stamkos career.

How does the author arbitrarily decide that Toronto is the third best team in the league when Pittsburgh and Washington had as many points as us, and Florida and Carolina had more? Based on points alone from the past few seasons Toronto seems to be 5th / 6th overall and that doesn't take into account the playoff failures

As for the statement about missing the playoffs? Very narrow view to take on the players. MacK made the playoffs 2/5 years to start his career but he was playing on a mess of a team. Stamkos had some missed playoffs early on but in year they went all the way to the conference finals in year two, and in subsequent seasons it was all deep runs including conference and Stanley Cup finals appearances (with some wins along the way).

You can't just telegraph our core to Colorado and TB and say things will be good eventually because it was for them. I just haven't seen the same kind of personal or team growth that those other franchises experienced. When have the Leafs every truly dominated a season end to end like a real contender? We still have the same crap happening every year, most people call it in the GDTs: off nights on back to backs, not showing up to play lower ranked teams, slow starts to games, timid to chase the puck into the tough spots on the ice, occasional blowout loses, a PP that never thrives despite all the talent in the world etc.

Bad luck is what happened to TB when they got swept a couple years ago. They had an extensive history of deep and successful runs to help weight against a one off fluke against CBJ. Toronto has five years or repeating the same issues against different teams.

 

[Gallagbi]

Maybe that’s what you saw. I can count on 1 hand the amount of odd man rushes we had. And most of the slot chances Price was at the top of his crease taking away the entire angle. xG doesn’t factor in goalie positioning and it’s a massive influence on save %.

Of course it doesn't xGF measures opportunities and area.

Although highlighting how strong positioninally Price both was, and can be, while he's on would suggest we did get "goalied", especially when you're seeing a variety of chances in different situations whether it be onetimers, in tight plays, rebounds and rush opportunities.

As for the chances on odd man rushes. I've done a detailed review of the Game 6 OT. We have stats to measure rush opportunities, rebounds and various levels of scoring chances. All suggests the Leafs outplayed the Habs, which aligns with my eye test. I have seen odd man rush counts, but don't have it at my finger tips.

We started with the Habs not wanting to trade chances and thay impacting xGF. But that's not how the stat I measured or typically presented. We moved to traffic, seems like we had the advantage there even if we didn't convert.

At the end of the day, we didn't win, but to say we were shut down or limited in opportunities doesn't seem at all accurate. Seems like we didn't convert.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Blogger got super unlucky with an over-activated self-delusion gene.

This gene is needed as a Leaf fan.

 

[Gallagbi]

None of which means shit. The only thing that matters - the only thing - is the final score.

I read something on one of the sports pages after the Edmonton series which said they had better advanced stats than the Jets. How'd that work out for them?

It means exactly what the stat reflects.

It means for HDCF we generated a number of opportunities from that area. For rebounds, it monitors the rebound chances. For hits it measure how often we made and took a hit. Same with shots, goals, etc.. The stats are reflective of play.

It doesn't change the outcome, but it helps highlights the on ice events that influenced that final score. From there, you can discuss, adapt and adjust to improve on those results - ideally.

Or we could sit and cry about the results with little to no context and just make up anecdotal garbage that doesn't hold up statistically or with a re-watch.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I can tell just by reading that article he’s probably never played a game of hockey in his life. This narrative that we won the expected goals battle is such nonsense. It implies that Montreal and CBJ would try to trade chances with us. As for “getting goalied” we make it easy for the goalie. Nobody on this team crashes the net hard for screens, tips and rebounds. Expected goals means nothing when the goalie has a clear view of the shot and can take away the entire net because there’s zero traffic

Very true...I found it funny how Price came back to earth against TB when he couldn't see the shots coming at him and let them in. We just don't have players that want to be in the home plate area getting cross checked all night in order to bang in a dirty goal or screen the goalie. All the high IQ players we keep going after seem to think it's stupid to sit in front and get pummeled. Maybe you need some lower IQ players to do it...I don't know.

 

[Bomber0104]

It means exactly what the stat reflects.

It means for HDCF we generated a number of opportunities from that area. For rebounds, it monitors the rebound chances. For hits it measure how often we made and took a hit. Same with shots, goals, etc.. The stats are reflective of play.

It doesn't change the outcome, but it helps highlights the on ice events that influenced that final score. From there, you can discuss, adapt and adjust to improve on those results - ideally.

Or we could sit and cry about the results with little to no context and just make up anecdotal garbage that doesn't hold up statistically or with a re-watch.

Thing is, your interpretation of both the game and amateur blog statistics is completely wrong.

Nevermind your acceptance of abject failure.

Not much has changed since the Burke days with you, I see.

 

[Gallagbi]

Very true...I found it funny how Price came back to earth against TB when he couldn't see the shots coming at him and let them in. We just don't have players that want to be in the home plate area getting cross checked all night in order to bang in a dirty goal or screen the goalie. All the high IQ players we keep going after seem to think it's stupid to sit in front and get pummeled. Maybe you need some lower IQ players to do it...I don't know.

Isn't that exactly Vegas's reputation? That they have a big, physical team that competes. They battle hard and fight for everything. How'd they do?

 

[PromisedLand]

Toronto Maple Leafs: Kyle Dubas Will Come Out of This a Legend

"The Toronto Maple Leafs are the victims of a results-based industry that has really no idea how to evaluate a team that got very unlucky."

Why is editor in leaf so bad? Is he paid by the leafs?

This James Tanner reminds me of a few posters around these parts.

What a load of BULL. This is the dumbest thing I've read in the last week or so.

This is a results based business. Imagine running a business and not having any progress and some dumbass says "its not aobut results; the manager the business hired is a legend". What a f***ING MORON. Who is the author of this article? Tell him to F right off!

Dubas has absolutely RUINED the Leafs. Dubas fans piss the F outta me.

Leafs fans and the team have been the JOKE for a reason. Look at the picture

 

[nuck]

It means exactly what the stat reflects.

It means for HDCF we generated a number of opportunities from that area. For rebounds, it monitors the rebound chances. The stats are reflective of play.

It doesn't change the outcome, but it helps highlights the on I've events that influenced that final score. From there, you can discuss, adapt and adjust to improve on those results.

I am probably relying on the eye test too much but it seemed to me Mitch was getting crowded most of the series. Like the defenders were always a step closer to him and he had less time to react. He still gets his pass away but its a half second later and not teed up the same way. He gets shots at almost his regular season frequency but needs an instant more to get clear of a defender so Price has more time to adjust. In comparing his playoff advanced stats to the regular season, would there be any way of seeing the different in quality if the shooting is from basically the same areas with simply less space?

That plus a lot more contact. Does anyone know if there a hits received chart somewhere?

 

[Bomber0104]

Isn't that exactly Vegas's reputation? That they have a big, physical team that competes. They battle hard and fight for everything. How'd they do?

In their two years as a team they've reached the Cup final and Final Four..

A simple Google search could have helped you find that out.

 

[ToneDog]

Sorry stopped reading because the article made me puke.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Isn't that exactly Vegas's reputation? That they have a big, physical team that competes. They battle hard and fight for everything. How'd they do?

They didn't do much with Chandler Stevenson as their 1st line center. You need some skill to go along with the crash and bang...nobody disputes that. The issue is we have mostly one type of player on this team and maybe Vegas has the polar opposite...either one is not a cup winning strategy IMO. You need some of everything to win.

 

[Gallagbi]

I am probably relying on the eye test too much but it seemed to me Mitch was getting crowded most of the series. Like the defenders were always a step closer to him and he had less time to react. He still gets his pass away but its a half second later and not teed up the same way. He gets shots at almost his regular season frequency but needs an instant more to get clear of a defender so Price has more time to adjust. In comparing his playoff advanced stats to the regular season, would there be any way of seeing the different in quality if the shooting is from basically the same areas with simply less space?

That plus a lot more contact. Does anyone know if there a hits received chart somewhere?

I thought NHL.com tracked hits taken, but it's been a while since I checked.

For Marner, I thought he was slow to react in a lot of spots. I didn't see much less time and space compared to normal playoff intensity, but I did see him overhandling pucks and slowing things down too much. I was REALLY hard on him during thr playoffs themselves. As I rewatched, he was better than I first thought, but not good enough. There's a lot of self sabatoging within his game this playoff.

 

[Gallagbi]

They didn't do much with Chandler Stevenson as their 1st line center. You need some skill to go along with the crash and bang...nobody disputes that. The issue is we have mostly one type of player on this team and maybe Vegas has the polar opposite...either one is not a cup winning strategy IMO. You need some of everything to win.

I still figured that quality of team would have been enough to beat Montreal and generate. It's not like they're a fluke, this is a team that finished top 2 in the regular season and has had playoff success.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I still figured that quality of team would have been enough to beat Montreal and generate. It's not like they're a fluke, this is a team that finished top 2 in the regular season and has had playoff success.

Let me ask you this: Which team (VGK or Habs) is more likely to get back to the 3rd rd of the playoffs in the next 3 yrs?

We can't say what happened to the Leafs was just bad luck and then say a team like VGK is not unlucky but just shit and unskilled because they lost to the Habs. We took them to 7 games and VGK took them to 6...that doesn't necessarily man we are better than the VGK are.

 

[Racer88]

"Victims of a results based industry"

Yeah, huge victims having been bounced in the first round or missed the playoffs in the last 5 years straight.

At some point you need to look in the mirror. I believe this team has underperformed but 5 straight years of it points to lazy players with no heart.

Ya that phrase got me…….what the hell does he think the entire point of sports is……..it’s results based.
That guy is moron

 

[Racer88]

Absolutely moronic article I almost stopped reading when he started with the expected goals nonsense.
He claims Dubas had 2 bad contracts to get rid of. If he hadn’t of blown his wad on Tavares he wouldn’t have had to deal with Marleau. So he had to add a 1st round pick to clear up Marleau……big deal, look at the 1st he totally wasted with the train wreck known as Foligno.
Them he goes and give out 3 more ridiculous contracts. .
So in summary he turned 2 bad contract into 4 bad contract and no results.
I almost puked reading this nonsense

 

[Gallagbi]

Let me ask you this: Which team (VGK or Habs) is more likely to get back to the 3rd rd of the playoffs in the next 3 yrs?

We can't say what happened to the Leafs was just bad luck and then say a team like VGK is not unlucky but just shit and unskilled because they lost to the Habs. We took them to 7 games and VGK took them to 6...that doesn't necessarily man we are better than the VGK are.

I agree and that's my point. This isn't TB just driving thr net and all problems going away. Montreal beat a number of favored teams this playoffs and truthfully they looked to have outplayed Winnipeg and Vegas along the way.

Our stats and actually opportunities are alot closer to TB than WPG or VGK in the series played.

 

[egd27]

What a load of BULL. This is the dumbest thing I've read in the last week or so.

You should search some of his other articles. You'll be banging your head against the wall within an hour.