Friedman: Leafs and Knies talking extension

[drktmplr12]

Why would a young talent sign 4x8.

What you guys smoking

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Why would a young talent sign 4x8.

What you guys smoking

"You guys" is one guy.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

I appreciate your concession that he's overpaid, and that you were wrong to claim that we're past the days of Leafs management overpaying their core players. Thank you.

Now that we're past that, you can go back to comparing Knies taking 8 x $4M to Faber, (8 x $8.5M) Sanderson (8 x $8.05M) and Slafkovsky. (8 x $7.6M)

Love how highly everyone here thinks about him to compare him to these names. Good to know he’s well respected.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Blue pills?

 

[I am Canadian]

Nylander deal was signed when the known cap was $83.5M. But you keep trying.

You really don't think projected salary cap isn't taken into account with new deals? Lewis Gross and other agents were aware of the projected cap

 

[GreatSaveLuongo]

8x8 do it

 

[Garbageyuk]

Leafs fans at the end of last season were saying he’s close to Slaf in terms of ability and value. Time to put your money where your mouth is guys.

8 years, $7.0M - $7.5M sounds about right, based on what Leafs fans were claiming.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Love how highly everyone here thinks about him to compare him to these names. Good to know he’s well respected.

And by everybody, you mean the one Leaf fan that made those comparisons.

 

[Rob Brown]

Leafs fans at the end of last season were saying he’s close to Slaf in terms of ability and value. Time to put your money where your mouth is guys.

8 years, $7.0M - $7.5M sounds about right, based on what Leafs fans were claiming.

I'm not sure if you know this, but Leafs fans on HFBoards have no influence on how much Leafs players are signed for.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

You really don't think projected salary cap isn't taken into account with new deals? Lewis Gross and other agents were aware of the projected cap

Even if they did the cap inflation on Pasta's contract puts him $350K ahead of Nylander, which you would've seen if you had continued reading.

Nylander is not worth within $350K of Pasta...

 

[TheDoldrums]

Love how highly everyone here thinks about him to compare him to these names. Good to know he’s well respected.

He’s compared to stars when it comes to what salary he should command. But also, he’s nowhere close in value to a goalie prospect and the Leafs would definitely make that trade despite already having multiple good young goalies in the system.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

He’s compared to stars when it comes to what salary he should command. But also, he’s nowhere close in value to a goalie prospect and the Leafs would definitely make that trade despite already having multiple good young goalies in the system.

Did you think you were in the Knies for Wallstedt thread?

 

[Legion34]

Even if they did the cap inflation on Pasta's contract puts him $350K ahead of Nylander, which you would've seen if you had continued reading.

Nylander is not worth within $350K of Pasta...

There are tax differences between Toronto and Boston.

But still pasta is better and I would clearly trade 1 for 1 as a leafs fan

 

[LeonDraisaitl]

I’m of the belief they shouldn’t rush it and see what they have, buuut I can also see how that can backfire and cost you a lot more.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

There are tax differences between Toronto and Boston.

But still pasta is better and I would clearly trade 1 for 1 as a leafs fan

Tax differences don't cut it as an excuse when the likes of Ottawa (Stutzle/Tkachuk/Sanderson) and Vancouver (Pettersson/Hughes/Miller) have to deal with the same issue...

Petterson's the only name in that group that breaks into Leafs' Core salary territory of $11M+... The next closest is Stutzle at $8.35M.

EDIT: As a matter of fact, this season Toronto has four of the top 6 cap hits among all Canadian teams.

 

[TS Quint]

I don't think you get 6 years out of Knies at $4.5m.

Everyone knows the cap is going to jump immensely. Auston Matthews is the epitome of doing that with the 4 year deal so he can get another hit at it.

If he's listening to Auston Matthews (probably, given that probably idolized Matthews growing up), he'll likely want a much higher premium for giving up years 5 and 6.

Personally, I can see a world where you can get Knies at $4.5m x 4.

To get 6 years out of him, it probably needs to be a $5.5 to $6m deal... just based on what Kaiden Guhle ($5.5x6) and Guenther ($7.15x8).

If you're the Leafs, does it make sense to pay an extra $1 - $1.5m for another 2 years? I guess that comes down to whether you think you think that extra bit of cap space might be the difference between winning and losing over the next 4 years.

Personally, looking at where the Leafs are at in contract situations and ages with Matthews & Nylander, I'm a bit more inclined to go 4 years.... especially if he's subscribing to the Matthews school of thought and is adverse to doing an 8-year deal. Most of the teams doing these types of deals with young players aren't very good today.

If they pay Knies Lundell money, $5mx6, they are getting ripped off.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

And by everybody, you mean the one Leaf fan that made those comparisons.

So which is it… Should his salary be compared to Faber/Slaf etc. because he’s a similar level player. Or should he be less expensive because he’s not on that level?

 

[HockeyVirus]

So which is it… Should his salary be compared to Faber/Slaf etc. because he’s a similar level player. Or should he be less expensive because he’s not on that level?

I guess the fact I was showing the concept of players taking less than they could get a few years later was lost on them, as they seem to think I was comparing Knies to them. Rather, I was saying they were good young players who took the cash when they could even if they waited a few years they knew they could get more.

The 7/8x8 folks in here are out to lunch. Knies has never shown a level to get that kind of money yet. He gets 6 MAX on a long term deal, very likely less than 6

 

[Garbageyuk]

I'm not sure if you know this, but Leafs fans on HFBoards have no influence on how much Leafs players are signed for.

I’m not sure if you know this, but the post was clearly not serious.

 

[hamzarocks]

I guess the fact I was showing the concept of players taking less than they could get a few years later was lost on them, as they seem to think I was comparing Knies to them. Rather, I was saying they were good young players who took the cash when they could even if they waited a few years they knew they could get more.

The 7/8x8 folks in here are out to lunch. Knies has never shown a level to get that kind of money yet. He gets 6 MAX on a long term deal, very likely less than 6

I think the JVR or Simmonds deals from 2012ish are ideal templates for Knies

Lets say he outs 45 pts this year

A 6 or 7 year deal approaching 5M is likely fair value for both sides

JVR had draft pedigree and higher offensive ceiling when he signed

Simmonds... he got ripped off lol, but he was a very promising player with net front game

If knies gets 60-70 pts this year then yeah it will be 6-7M long term deal. However at this point a 4.5M or 5M deal is very fair for him

 

[Rob Brown]

I’m not sure if you know this, but the post was clearly not serious.

I'm aware, I'm joking based on your 'time to put your money where your mouth is guys' comment as if the fans have any decision making power.

 

[TS Quint]

I think all the long term contract talk is a waste of energy. This seems like an obvious bridge contract. Leafs are paying big money to the core. Knies is a complimentary piece until he proves he isn't. The Leafs should be looking at how to make the roster as competitive as possible especially at the beginning of those monster Nylander, Matthews and soon to be Marner contracts.

This is what RFA contracts are for. Sign him as cheap as possible for 2 or 3 years. No sense overpaying now to save money later. Leafs need to be winning not planning on winning. This is the windows not 3,4, 5 years from now.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

So which is it… Should his salary be compared to Faber/Slaf etc. because he’s a similar level player. Or should he be less expensive because he’s not on that level?

It's "He should not sign an 8 year deal for $4M because he could prove to be worth a lot more."

This ain't that hard to understand.

 

[kevsh]

If Dubas was still with the Leafs, I could see it.

Treliving gave Nylander everything he could possibly ask for and then some. That monster deal was so ridiculously favorable to Willie it probably made Kyle jealous.

So don't assume that because there's a new GM in town that MLSE's philosophy on treating their stars like royalty (and paying them as such) has changed. Clearly it hasn't.

Unfortunately for Knies he's not a star yet so they may not roll up the Brink's truck to his door, but I believe he'll get a very generous offer if he's willing to sign long-term.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

It's "He should not sign an 8 year deal for $4M because he could prove to be worth a lot more."

This ain't that hard to understand.

You’ve been insinuating that he’s worth near Slaf and Fabers contracts. I’m saying it’s nice to know how highly regarded he is to be compared to those players. It ain’t hard to understand.