LD Rasmus Sandin - Rogle BK, SHL (2018, 29th, TOR)

[Isaac Nootin]

Nah I'm a big Sandin fan, but it isn't like you can pretend he didn't struggle that game. I'd say resorting to "lol I never cared anyway" just makes you guys look worse.

Big Sandin fan, eh. Do you post about him often?

And it's true, nobody cared last night as most of Canada was busy watching the Raptors make franchise history, while 1 person dissected AHL game tape in the basement.

 

[ProspectsSTC]

Big Sandin fan, eh. Do you post about him often?

And it's true, nobody cared last night as most of Canada was busy watching the Raptors make franchise history, while 1 person dissected AHL game tape in the basement.

Don't post about him as much now that he's been drafted, but saw him at least 10 times when he was playing for the Soo last year and thought he was fantastic, top tier effort though.

As for the second part, it's not exactly relevant since the game did happen (not that I got the chance to watch it). Hurts me to agree with someone like you on this, but go Raps.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Don't post about him as much now that he's been drafted, but saw him at least 10 times when he was playing for the Soo last year and thought he was fantastic, top tier effort though.

As for the second part, it's not exactly relevant since the game did happen (not that I got the chance to watch it). Hurts me to agree with someone like you on this, but go Raps.

What do you mean, someone like me?

 

[Martin Skoula]

Nah I'm a big Sandin fan, but it isn't like you can pretend he didn't struggle that game. I'd say resorting to "lol I never cared anyway" just makes you guys look worse.

The thing is he shouldn't even be there. An 18-19 year old should not be getting 25 minutes a night in the AHL conference finals. I don't think anyone's concerned that he's starting to falter on the physical side of the game when he's not even close to done growing. You can still see the vision and IQ that got him drafted even in a bad game, the rest is an easy linear improvement as he grows up.

 

[ProspectsSTC]

The thing is he shouldn't even be there. An 18-19 year old should not be getting 25 minutes a night in the AHL conference finals. I don't think anyone's concerned that he's starting to falter on the physical side of the game when he's not even close to done growing. You can still see the vision and IQ that got him drafted even in a bad game, the rest is an easy linear improvement as he grows up.

Absolutely, and I'm starting to regret putting him as low as 19 on my list last year. Fantastic player, really does remind me of Markov, but there are still things he has to improve on.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Absolutely, and I'm starting to regret putting him as low as 19 on my list last year. Fantastic player, really does remind me of Markov, but there are still things he has to improve on.

To me the most important thing I've seen so far is that he's confident and willing to take risks at a level that's supposed to be above his head. Too many guys come out of junior and try to play safe to avoid the doghouse, they end up forgetting how to dictate the pace of play and become reactive players. I was worried that was happening with Liljegren, but his development makes more sense after seeing him play heavy minutes mistake-free.

 

[Knies iT]

The others D men did not stand out, I barely even noticed Lilegren played tonight.

1. (Re your last post) Its not Leafs TV anymore, its Leafs Nation Network.

2. You didn't notice a player with the highest TOI in the game? Liljegren had the most minutes played, more than Sandin, yet you didn't notice him? Interesting.

3. Sandin has 10 points in 12 games in the playoffs. The Charlotte series has been the roughest for the Marlies and last night was their worst game collectively - convenient you chose to PBP that game. Why don't you PVR one of the games from the last two rounds, where Sandin was over 1PPG and the Marlies were 8-0-0? Don't bother, we know the answer to that.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Original post was made at 7:38 p.m.

It was last edited at 1:27 a.m.

Almost 5 hours wasted, failing to prove a point!

The funny thing is that it seems like generally a pretty good game but the Checkers just capitalised on their chances. Especially solid for a rookie D playing top competition 26mins in their 18yo season

 

[biotk]

2. You didn't notice a player with the highest TOI in the game? Liljegren had the most minutes played, more than Sandin

There is zero chance that Liljegren played the most minutes. Kevin Papetti had Sandin at 25:42 and said liljegren was 4 or 5 minutes less. Being at game 5 (as well as 3 and 4) there is no doubt that was the case.

 

[Knies iT]

There is zero chance that Liljegren played the most minutes. Kevin Papetti had Sandin at 25:42 and said liljegren was 4 or 5 minutes less. Being at game 5 (as well as 3 and 4) there is no doubt that was the case.

Liljegren had 27 shifts to Sandin’s 26 and Veillete has Liljegren with more TOI. Not sure what you being at game 3 & 4 has to do with his minutes in game 5.

 

[hockey411]

I watched him in the O and this year and I really like this kid, The leafs are starting to have a real eye of selecting high end talent.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Except he didn't have a bad game. Led the Marlies in icetime with almost 26 minutes as a 19 year old (2 months ago he was 18), had a CF% of 64, all while having the least amount of OZ Starts of any of the D core. So what was so bad about his game?

 

[Mats26]

Was away for the weekend so didn't catch the last 2 games. Sandin and Liljegren combined -7 with 1 pt. Did they run out of gas?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Except he didn't have a bad game. Led the Marlies in icetime with almost 26 minutes as a 19 year old (2 months ago he was 18), had a CF% of 64, all while having the least amount of OZ Starts of any of the D core. So what was so bad about his game?

Corsi numbers and minutes totals don't say whether someone had a bad game. There's a description on the last page from someone who watched the game and doesn't have reason to incorrectly portray his performance.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Corsi numbers and minutes totals don't say whether someone had a bad game. There's a description on the last page from someone who watched the game and doesn't have reason to incorrectly portray his performance.

I also watched the game, along with tonight's game and the entire playoff run, which just ended. Why does my opinion matter any less.

 

[biotk]

Liljegren had 27 shifts to Sandin’s 26 and Veillete has Liljegren with more TOI. Not sure what you being at game 3 & 4 has to do with his minutes in game 5.

Sandin plays more every night - which is why games 3 and 4 are relevant. Veillete tracks 5v5. There were more than 20 minutes of special teams that game. Sandin plays way, way, way more on the PP, and at least as much on the PK as Liljegren. Then he still manages to play about the same 5v5 time. Liljegren was widely praised for playing every game in the Calder run last year at 19. But at the same time Liljegren only played top-4 minutes for a couple of those games. What Sandin did at 19 this year - #1 minutes possibly every game in the playoffs - is simply insane, and probably wore him down, but you can see how much Keefe trusts him. It can't be easy for a D in the AHL who just turned 19 to get the trust of his coach over LoVerde, Liljegren, Rosen and Borgman, but Sandin appears to. It was this level of trust that was shocking to me during the May 3rd game when it was a tie early in the third. The Leafs took a penalty. Sandin had been on the ice for roughly 2 of the 3 minutes before that call. No other D came close. But during the PK it was Sandin who started and finished the kill - killing about 1:20 of the 2 minutes (Liljegren played the last 30 seconds of the kill, with Sandin).

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I was supporting the Checkers this game, and I was excited whenever he was on the ice.

 

[Knies iT]

Sandin plays more every night - which is why games 3 and 4 are relevant. Veillete tracks 5v5. There were more than 20 minutes of special teams that game. Sandin plays way, way, way more on the PP, and at least as much on the PK as Liljegren. Then he still manages to play about the same 5v5 time. Liljegren was widely praised for playing every game in the Calder run last year at 19. But at the same time Liljegren only played top-4 minutes for a couple of those games. What Sandin did at 19 this year - #1 minutes possibly every game in the playoffs - is simply insane, and probably wore him down, but you can see how much Keefe trusts him. It can't be easy for a D in the AHL who just turned 19 to get the trust of his coach over LoVerde, Liljegren, Rosen and Borgman, but Sandin appears to. It was this level of trust that was shocking to me during the May 3rd game when it was a tie early in the third. The Leafs took a penalty. Sandin had been on the ice for roughly 2 of the 3 minutes before that call. No other D came close. But during the PK it was Sandin who started and finished the kill - killing about 1:20 of the 2 minutes (Liljegren played the last 30 seconds of the kill, with Sandin).

I agree, I've watched every game. Sandin almost always plays more but my point with that original post was that Liljegren had arguably the highest TOI, yet that poster said he wasn't noticeable, which is obviously facetious.

Also, RE your first post, Pepetti has Sandin at 25:42 in game 5 but nowhere does he list Liljegren's TOI. As an aside, Sandin was temporarily removed from PP1 after his giveaway that led to the SHG against.

Regardless, both Lilj and Sandin had incredible years. Liljegren started out rough with the injury, but had the better post-season of the two, whereas i'd say Sandin had the better overall body of work (tapered off near the end). Quick snippet of the poise this kid has as an 18 year old in the biggest games of his life.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I also watched the game, along with tonight's game and the entire playoff run, which just ended. Why does my opinion matter any less.

I didn’t say it did. There are some here that think they need to attack, attack, attack against someone who had a different opinion.

 

[biotk]

Was away for the weekend so didn't catch the last 2 games. Sandin and Liljegren combined -7 with 1 pt. Did they run out of gas?

I think that Sandin, after having an amazing first two series' had a sub-par third. Maybe he ran out of gas (Keefe worked him hard, but he was still playing 25+ minutes a game until the end). Maybe he had difficulty with the pressure. Maybe he was just unlucky. A decent chunk of Sandin's negative score was his PP unit getting scored on a bunch of times (4 times in the final 3 games). I personally think that the Marlies staff holds a lot of the blame for that. They didn't seem to adjust enough to the Checkers' PK. The PP, which was 45% over the first two series seemed to fall apart. Perhaps it was simply due for a regression to the mean (and the PP - even getting scored on 4 times in three games was still not as frustrating to watch as the Leafs' PP was for much of the year).

I don't think that Liljegren's game was any different from the first two series. For instance in game 2 he was a -4, but was even for the rest of the series and positive for each of the first two series'. +/- is a pretty bad statistic. The game the Liljegren was a -4 he had the odd goof, but they didn't lead to goals against. None of the goals against that game seemed to be in any way on Liljegren.

 

[biotk]

Also, RE your first post, Pepetti has Sandin at 25:42 in game 5 but nowhere does he list Liljegren's TOI.

He responded in a follow up to that post saying that Liljegren was 4 - 5 minutes less than Sandin that game.

I do agree that saying he wasn't noticeable was facetious. Although, if I am concentrating on watching a specific player I have gone through large parts of a game without noticing a player was in the lineup. But that is on me, and rarely has anything to do with the player in question's performance.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

7 of his 10 points came in the first 5 play-off games, against Rockford and Cleveland.
Last 8 games, 0+3 and +/-: -7 against Cleveland and Charlotte

Complete opposite what to regular season: in the last 17 reg games Sandin scored 19 points -> 9 points in his first 27 reg games.

So, late reg+early play-offs, 26 points in 22 games.

Relatively good/great rookie season, but streaky, lots of room to improve, still super young thou, so that should be easy for him
good enough for the Leafs line up next season?, maybe Leafs fans could answer this question?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I didn’t say it did. There are some here that think they need to attack, attack, attack against someone who had a different opinion.

It isn't so much an opinion, but fact that Sandin had a rough game. -4, As my game notes prove. There are not many who would catalogue a shift by shift analysis as I did. If someone wants to do the same thing to refute my analysis if it was not an accurate account of what happened. I say go ahead. But I doubt they will because it was a correct account of events.

Anyone claiming he had a good game, is simply being disingenuous. You are also correct, this is the mainboard, not team board and anyone here can post an opinion, scouting report, and in the case a shift by shift analysis on a prospect during a game. I would actually welcome more shift by shift reports on NHL prospects. Not people being sensitive and defensive for reasons of their own.

I know you post a lot on prospects, and I value your opinions. Don't let a few loud ones spoil it for true prospects watchers like you and me, and few more regulars I see in the prospects threads.

 

[Smif]

It isn't so much an opinion, but fact that Sandin had a rough game. -4, As my game notes prove. There are not many who would catalogue a shift by shift analysis as I did. If someone wants to do the same thing to refute my analysis if it was not an accurate account of what happened. I say go ahead. But I doubt they will because it was a correct account of events.

Anyone claiming he had a good game, is simply being disingenuous. You are also correct, this is the mainboard, not team board and anyone here can post an opinion, scouting report, and in the case a shift by shift analysis on a prospect during a game. I would actually welcome more shift by shift reports on NHL prospects. Not people being sensitive and defensive for reasons of their own.

I know you post a lot on prospects, and I value your opinions. Don't let a few loud ones spoil it for true prospects watchers like you and me, and few more regulars I see in the prospects threads.

I agree with your analysis of the game you broke down. Problem is, you only do it with Leafs prospects after a bad game. People would take your analysis of a player more seriously and not call you a troll so often if you came in and gave a little praise once in a while. It seems like everytime you post in a Leafs thread it has a negative spin to it.

As for Sandin, it sure seems like he ran out of gas this last series. It's a good thing imo. It will likely make him work harder in the offseason. I hope he has a great camp for the Leafs next year but just barely gets beat out by a veteran and gets sent back to the Marlies for more seasoning.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I agree with your analysis of the game you broke down. Problem is, you only do it with Leafs prospects after a bad game. People would take your analysis of a player more seriously and not call you a troll so often if you came in and gave a little praise once in a while. It seems like everytime you post in a Leafs thread it has a negative spin to it.

As for Sandin, it sure seems like he ran out of gas this last series. It's a good thing imo. It will likely make him work harder in the offseason. I hope he has a great camp for the Leafs next year but just barely gets beat out by a veteran and gets sent back to the Marlies for more seasoning.

I posted the shift by shift report on Sandin due to a poster saying any opinion is worthless without seeing the player play. I am happy you confirm there was no bias in my game summary for Sandin by confirming he did have a bad game. Still there are some here claiming he was good that game even though that poster has little credibility. I think it is far more important to actually correct the record, where we can discuss players and not posters here on the main board. If posters want to read positive fluff on their players, they should stick to their team board. Regardless, I did also praise Sandin in the end of that shift by shift summary by calling him the Leafs best D prospect by a wide margin and I like his skill. Not sure why some would be upset with this. He's got a bit of rover in him that reminds me of Jake Gardiner. If he can pan out like Jake, Sandin will be a good NHL D man.