- Apr 27, 2005
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The fact you are citing a jfresh chart as proof Matheson is a 3rd pairing d-man is hf comedy gold. You couldn't have outed yourself as less knowledgeable.
Are you saying he's not a defensive liability?
The fact you are citing a jfresh chart as proof Matheson is a 3rd pairing d-man is hf comedy gold. You couldn't have outed yourself as less knowledgeable.
By other models (like Dom Luszczyszyn's) he's not a defensive liability (more neutral). Usage context is important.
Matheson isn't a #1D. He's probably not even a top pair guy on a team that wants to be really competitive. But that wasn't the claim you made. Your argument (and not one made by JFresh) is that he's a bottom pair PP specialist, which you haven't substantiated. While D get overrated by hockey guys all the time, the biggest trap "analytics" falls into is overrating D who play sheltered minutes and underrate D who play tough minutes. And only Walman-Seider played tougher minutes than Matheson last year.
The problem with that argument is that Matheson has a number of years before MTL playing easier minutesBy other models (like Dom Luszczyszyn's) he's not a defensive liability (more neutral). Usage context is important.
Matheson isn't a #1D. He's probably not even a top pair guy on a team that wants to be really competitive. But that wasn't the claim you made. Your argument (and not one made by JFresh) is that he's a bottom pair PP specialist, which you haven't substantiated. While D get overrated by hockey guys all the time, the biggest trap "analytics" falls into is overrating D who play sheltered minutes and underrate D who play tough minutes. And only Walman-Seider played tougher minutes than Matheson last year.
Seider is also considered a liability according to JFresh.The fact you are citing a jfresh chart as proof Matheson is a 3rd pairing d-man is hf comedy gold. You couldn't have outed yourself as less knowledgeable.
The problem with that argument is that Matheson has a number of years before MTL playing easier minutes
Sure, he plays very tough minutes in MTL.
But he played much easier minutes in previous stops. And he didn't do anything special with those minutes either
Bad in tough minutes does not automatically translate to good in easy minutes. Especially when we've all SEEN him in those easier minutes.
His minutes in florida were not particularly tough outside of 2019, where he struggles significantly.He was at worst mediocre in tough (but not quite as tough minutes in 2022-2023) and was excellent in more favourable second pair minutes in 2021-2022 and at worst mediocre in second pair minutes (with the worst OZ% among Pittsburgh D) in 2021 and struggled in Florida in usually tough minutes.
He also, you know, improved. Which happens with vets too. Certainly to the degree that calling him a bottom pair PP specialist doesn't make sense (especially since he's literally never played significant PP minutes before coming to Montreal).
Not what that chart says at all.Seider is also considered a liability according to JFresh.
i'd be concerned about his hairdo as well, a clear lack of discipline red flagSeider is also considered a liability according to JFresh.
They had comparable deployment and both are in the top 3 toughest minutes in the NHL. Matheson may not be a #1 D but he’s surely not a 3rd pairing PP specialist as your good friend Whiskey saidHis minutes in florida were not particularly tough outside of 2019, where he struggles significantly.
His analytics have been below average every year but 2022. (Where they certainly weren't excellent).
What logic suggests matheson has improved?
We have seen Matheson in tough minutes once before. He struggled. He is back in tough minutes, and is struggling again?
I see nothing from his play to see improvement.
If I'm looking for a guy to take on tough minutes at sub 5 mill, it's not Matheson. I've seen a number of guys do better in tough minutes.
If I'm looking for a guy to dominate easier minutes sub 5 mill, it's still not Matheson. I've seen a number of guys much better suited to take advantage.
If I'm looking for a guy to effectively kill penalties, it's still not Matheson.
Not what that chart says at all.
Seider plays the toughest minutes in hockey. Nobody would succeed in them. The optimism around seider is that, when we saw him in EASIER minutes (they were still hard minutes, but not as hard), he excelled.
We've seen matheson in minutes that are very hard, but not harder than Seider. He has struggled. We have also seen matheson in easy minutes. He hasn't been anything special in them either
There's a pretty sizable gap between 1 and 3 thereThey had comparable deployment and both are in the top 3 toughest minutes in the NHL. Matheson may not be a #1 D but he’s surely not a 3rd pairing PP specialist as your good friend Whiskey said