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LD Juuso Valimaki (2017, 16th, CAL)

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seadawg said:
Agree. Calgary's defense is a mess. Not to mention, I believe there's a chance he could be on the power play. Giordano may have the inside edge with Gustafsson gone, but I suspect Valimaki will assume the role before too long.
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Arguably top 10 in the NHL and Valimaki will improve that also.
 
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I think a successful year for him would start on the third pairing, then increase ice time slowly to something that resembles 2nd line mins along with time on 2nd power play unit by mid season. Not that there will be a full season, but my hope/expectation would be a 30-35 point 82 game pace with a quarter of the points on PP.

I don’t get any jumpy or skiddish vibes from him - I think he’s going to be a calm 2WD with good offensive upside.
 
Just doink said:
Yes for sure cause of the lockout, but for the start of this season Liiga rosters are better than what we have had in recent memory.
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Probably a bit better. But nowhere near where it was when there were fewer clubs and teams like Jokerit and Espoo Blues had significant player budgets.
 
Flamesfan62 said:
Still a top league
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Well, depends on your definition of "top league".

Tkachuk Norris said:
well he’s significantly outplaying other young NHL players like Kotkaniemi.

The kid dominated in the AHL as a draft +2, that’s very uncommon. WJC captain. Performed well in the NHL playoffs. It’s not like he’s come out of nowhere.
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Not arguing with that. Just that historic records are hardly relevant.
 
BlondeLooch said:
Much easier than arguing it’s a mess
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I'm the one who said Calgary's defense is a mess. I don't really want to argue with anyone, but the defense relies a lot on the 37-year old Giordano.

Overall, in terms of the transitional game and generating offense from the defense, I strongly feel the team needs help and Valimaki could be a big factor in that regard. I know it will take Valimaki time to prove himself and gain the trust of the coaching staff, but in time I think he could be a key part of the defense. IMO, apart from Giordano, Valimaki is the best option to run the team's power play and help transition the puck from the defense zone up to the forwards, an area in which Calgary considerably struggled last year.
 
seadawg said:
Overall, in terms of the transitional game and generating offense from the defense, I strongly feel the team needs help and Valimaki could be a big factor in that regard. I know it will take Valimaki time to prove himself and gain the trust of the coaching staff, but in time I think he could be a key part of the defense. IMO, apart from Giordano, Valimaki is the best option to run the team's power play and help transition the puck from the defense zone up to the forwards, an area in which Calgary considerably struggled last year.
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You are right on a couple points, but I feel like you're also underselling a few aspects. Valimaki would absolutely be a big improvement to the teams transition game, but that is something Andersson had improved on over the course of the year as well (coinciding with his increase in ice time, and even promotion from third pairing, to second and even first pairing at times). Valimaki already has a good chunk of trust from our coaching staff, before his injury, he was arguably the best skater in the playoff series against Colorado the year before, but yes he will absolutely be a key part of our defense.

As for Vali being the best option to run our powerplay after Gio, I'd say that's a bit different. Mostly because I feel like Gio shouldn't be running the powerplay itself (it's something even a few Flames fans have noted), but getting Andersson in Gio's spot as the sole-D on PP1, and then having Gio-Vali on PP2 (over Gio on PP1 and than Brodie and rotating either Andersson and Hanifin as the second D.
 
seadawg said:
I'm the one who said Calgary's defense is a mess. I don't really want to argue with anyone, but the defense relies a lot on the 37-year old Giordano.

Overall, in terms of the transitional game and generating offense from the defense, I strongly feel the team needs help and Valimaki could be a big factor in that regard. I know it will take Valimaki time to prove himself and gain the trust of the coaching staff, but in time I think he could be a key part of the defense. IMO, apart from Giordano, Valimaki is the best option to run the team's power play and help transition the puck from the defense zone up to the forwards, an area in which Calgary considerably struggled last year.
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In the last full NHL season, the Flames finished top 3 in both goals and assists on the backend. The Flames identity for years now has been all about having their defensemen join the rush.

I do agree with you that they do rely on an older veteran in Mark Giordano to be the anchor, but he’s the fittest Flame every year and he has low miles on the chassis. Valimaki, Hanifin, Andersson and Kylington is also a very young potential core group going forward. If the Flames can ever get their top line going in the playoffs, then that should cure what ails the Flames.
 
Khrox said:
You are right on a couple points, but I feel like you're also underselling a few aspects. Valimaki would absolutely be a big improvement to the teams transition game, but that is something Andersson had improved on over the course of the year as well (coinciding with his increase in ice time, and even promotion from third pairing, to second and even first pairing at times). Valimaki already has a good chunk of trust from our coaching staff, before his injury, he was arguably the best skater in the playoff series against Colorado the year before, but yes he will absolutely be a key part of our defense.

As for Vali being the best option to run our powerplay after Gio, I'd say that's a bit different. Mostly because I feel like Gio shouldn't be running the powerplay itself (it's something even a few Flames fans have noted), but getting Andersson in Gio's spot as the sole-D on PP1, and then having Gio-Vali on PP2 (over Gio on PP1 and than Brodie and rotating either Andersson and Hanifin as the second D.
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I agree that Andersson is awesome. He can and will excel at whatever role the Flames throw at him.

This is all entirely subjective and a matter of opinion, but I feel that after Andersson and Giordano, there are some major gaps/issues with the defense that Valimaki in time will be able to fill. Perhaps calling the Flames defense "a mess" sounded harsh. I merely meant that the team is in a transitional period/changing of the guard (losing Brodie and Hamonic and with Giordano showing signs of his age) and will need to rely more on the aforementioned Andersson and soon-to-be Valimaki. I feel Valimaki is already better than Hanifin (who imo hasn't lived up to expectations). Tanev was a nice addition and will help in the defensive zone, but the team needs to improve its transitional game and start to pass the torch from Giordano to Andersson and Valimaki.
 
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Flamesfan62 said:
A top 5ish league in the world would be the normal definition no?
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I think what he is getting at is comparing Valimaki's production to Karlsson's makes little sense and is misleading. Karlsson was putting up the best offensive numbers on his team while Valimaki is nowhere near the top offensive threat on his roster.

I am an Oilers fan, so I don't want this to come off as me being a hater of Valimaki or the Flames (even though I do hate them). Valimaki is a legit prospect and when healthy has shown he could be a great player one day. But he shouldn't be compared to Karlsson.
 
Fan 4 Life said:
I think what he is getting at is comparing Valimaki's production to Karlsson's makes little sense and is misleading. Karlsson was putting up the best offensive numbers on his team while Valimaki is nowhere near the top offensive threat on his roster.

I am an Oilers fan, so I don't want this to come off as me being a hater of Valimaki or the Flames (even though I do hate them). Valimaki is a legit prospect and when healthy has shown he could be a great player one day. But he shouldn't be compared to Karlsson.
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That's not true. Valimaki led his team in scoring for multiple weeks and is definitely one of the top 3 offensive threats on the team.
 
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Flameshomer said:
That's not true. Valimaki led his team in scoring for multiple weeks and is definitely one of the top 3 offensive threats on the team.
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C'mon now, he is scoring at 1 PPG which is great, but Ruostalainen is scoring at 1.5 PPG on the same team. Karlsson was the best weapon his team had when he put up his numbers, Valimaki is not. Being top 3 isn't being the top offensive talent on a team, just ask Ryan Nugent-Hopkins if he is the top offensive threat on his roster (also about .5 PPG less than his teammate...).

Again, Valimaki is a great prospect and I would take him in a heartbeat, but comparing his numbers to Karlsson's over hypes him.
 
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Fan 4 Life said:
C'mon now, he is scoring at 1 PPG which is great, but Ruostalainen is scoring at 1.5 PPG on the same team. Karlsson was the best weapon his team had when he put up his numbers, Valimaki is not. Being top 3 isn't being the top offensive talent on a team, just ask Ryan Nugent-Hopkins if he is the top offensive threat on his roster (also about .5 PPG less than his teammate...).
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That's a weird logic. Yes, Välimäki is only the 3rd best scorer on his team, scoring at PPG rate as a defenceman and being 8th in scoring in the entire league and he's not top offensive talent on the team? What does it matter that RNH is so much behind in PPG? He's not that offensively talented player that he could rival McDavid and Draisaitl. Also, you can pick top 3 scorers in different teams and find very different situations. Pittsburgh's top 3 were Malkin (74 points), Rust (56) and Crosby (47). Crosby isn't an offensive threat clearly, but oh wait he has better PPG than Rust. (1,15>1,02). Carolina's top3 were Aho (66), Teräväinen (63) and Svechnikov (61) and their PPG's are 0,97; 0,93 and 0,90. Would you not call Svechnikov an offensive threat on Carolina? There can be several offensive threats on a team, not just two.

I also wouldn't take that 1,5 PPG that Ruotsalainen has so seriously. His scoring is unsustainable and they have played just 17 games. Quite small sample size and the situation could change fast. We likely won't find out how the rest of their seasons would have gone as Ruotsalainen and Välimäki will go to NHL once the camps start. I doubt the difference in their PPG would be that big if they played full seasons in Liiga.

And just to be safe, I don't think Välimäki is as good as Karlsson.
 
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Pretty hard for Flames fans not to be hyped when the guy is playing like he is... I can definitely see them having a future top pairing dman here, maybe kinda like their Klefbom.
 
JabbaJabba said:
That's a weird logic. Yes, Välimäki is only the 3rd best scorer on his team, scoring at PPG rate as a defenceman and being 8th in scoring in the entire league and he's not top offensive talent on the team? What does it matter that RNH is so much behind in PPG? He's not that offensively talented player that he could rival McDavid and Draisaitl. Also, you can pick top 3 scorers in different teams and find very different situations. Pittsburgh's top 3 were Malkin (74 points), Rust (56) and Crosby (47). Crosby isn't an offensive threat clearly, but oh wait he has better PPG than Rust. (1,15>1,02). Carolina's top3 were Aho (66), Teräväinen (63) and Svechnikov (61) and their PPG's are 0,97; 0,93 and 0,90. Would you not call Svechnikov an offensive threat on Carolina? There can be several offensive threats on a team, not just two.

I also wouldn't take that 1,5 PPG that Ruotsalainen has so seriously. His scoring is unsustainable and they have played just 17 games. Quite small sample size and the situation could change fast. We likely won't find out how the rest of their seasons would have gone as Ruotsalainen and Välimäki will go to NHL once the camps start. I doubt the difference in their PPG would be that big if they played full seasons in Liiga.

And just to be safe, I don't think Välimäki is as good as Karlsson.
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Wait, so I shouldn't take Ruotsalainen's scoring seriously because of sample size, but I should take Valimaki's seriously and I should also assume he would finish at the same level as the guy who is scoring 50% more than him. The original argument was that Karlsson's numbers are not a good comparable to Valimaki's once you put their numbers into context.

780il said:
Pretty hard for Flames fans not to be hyped when the guy is playing like he is... I can definitely see them having a future top pairing dman here, maybe kinda like their Klefbom.
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Right...Klefbom...not Erik Karlsson. Could Valimaki be a first pair d-man? Absolutely I could see that happening. Should Flames fans be hyped about him? Definitely! But should we be comparing his offensive game to the greatest offensive defensemen we have seen in the last 20 years? Probably not the right comparison. That is all I am trying to get at here.
 
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Fan 4 Life said:
Wait, so I shouldn't take Ruotsalainen's scoring seriously because of sample size, but I should take Valimaki's seriously and I should also assume he would finish at the same level as the guy who is scoring 50% more than him. The original argument was that Karlsson's numbers are not a good comparable to Valimaki's once you put their numbers into context.



Right...Klefbom...not Erik Karlsson. Could Valimaki be a first pair d-man? Absolutely I could see that happening. Should Flames fans be hyped about him? Definitely! But should we be comparing his offensive game to the greatest offensive defensemen we have seen in the last 20 years? Probably not the right comparison. That is all I am trying to get at here.
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Amen.
Välimäki has good potential to be effective two way defender in first pair with good leadership etc.
That is huge! No need to over hype for his play in Liiga. Liiga is not what it used to be.
 
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