EXTRAS
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How is he a man child? He isn't above average size at all, and was young for his draft year. If anything I'd say that adding strength is a top priority for him.
LD Bowen Byram - Vancouver Giants, WHL (2019, 4th, COL)
- Thread starter Alberta tough
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How is he a man child? He isn't above average size at all, and was young for his draft year. If anything I'd say that adding strength is a top priority for him.
Killerjas
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Would not say it is a weak D draft, just there are no true "sure win" D's if we compare this draft to previous drafts. We did not have the Makar's, Heiskanen's and Dahlin's in the 2019 draft. But we do have Seider who looks like a very nice potential 1st line D, Broberg, Soderstrom and York.
Fair point. The previous 2 drafts Makar, Heiskanien, Dhalin, Hughes, Bovqist etc. Just seem a couple teirs ahead of this draft classes D. Really besides Jack, Kakko and Podz. I don't see a ton of elite potential from the 1st round.
Killerjas
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I know Podz plays for your team, but I just don't see how he is in a list next to Kakko and Hughes. What makes you think he has elite potential?
Honestly even before we drafted him I felt that way. He's already at worst a 3rd line above-average defender. His ceiling is just as high as Kakko but with a slightly less chance of reaching it limo. Watching him at the 4 nations and his limited mins in the KHL, he has literally done something impressive on every shift. I don't usually get all gushy over prospects, but he is so far ahead of anyone but Kakko, when it comes to his strength and defensive play. I think the 2 years scared some of the teams, but he was ranked top 3 by many scouts at diff times of the year.
Because people who haven't watched him play kept building up hype. He will be amazing down the road, but he still has things to work on in junior.
Mathew Barzal
Walk It Like I Tocchet
I personally didn't expect anything different. It is very rare for an 18 year old dman to come in and look completely comfortable against NLHers, as many posters alluded to after the draft when people were penciling him into the Avs lineup. I really believe the notion that an 18 year old has "nothing left to prove in junior" is completely flawed. It won't hurt Byram to go back to Vancouver and have another dominant year.
Ararana
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I thought he looked much better in preseason game 2 than game 1. He's starting to get more comfortable but yeah that failed breakout at the end of the game was a steaming turd on a overall better performance. It definitely looks like he needs good players around him to elevate his game at such a young age.
I think he could probably stick in the NHL and do alright, I just don't know if the Avs can afford another rookie defenseman on an already extremely young defensive group. The problem is I really don't think the CHL is going to do much of anything for his development either. He should be in the AHL.
We'll see how he preforms the rest of preseason. Word is his parents rented a house in Denver for the month of October which makes me believe Sakic told them he'd at least be getting a few regular season games. If he can keep improving I still don't think it's unfathomable he beats out Barberio/Graves/Rosen for a third pairing spot. Hell if EJ isn't ready to start the season there might be three spots open for opening night.
Never forget Avs management loves to throw guys into the NHL right away. Makar would have been here two years ago had he signed when they wanted him to.
I think he could probably stick in the NHL and do alright, I just don't know if the Avs can afford another rookie defenseman on an already extremely young defensive group. The problem is I really don't think the CHL is going to do much of anything for his development either. He should be in the AHL.
We'll see how he preforms the rest of preseason. Word is his parents rented a house in Denver for the month of October which makes me believe Sakic told them he'd at least be getting a few regular season games. If he can keep improving I still don't think it's unfathomable he beats out Barberio/Graves/Rosen for a third pairing spot. Hell if EJ isn't ready to start the season there might be three spots open for opening night.
Never forget Avs management loves to throw guys into the NHL right away. Makar would have been here two years ago had he signed when they wanted him to.
AvsCOL
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- Jul 16, 2013
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To be fair, Heiskanen wasn't a true rookie, this past season was his draft+1 season. Very, very few defensemen can walk into the league at 18 and dominate. That's why Dahlin's year was so incredible. If you think Heiskanen's D+1 season was good, I think Dahlin's is going to blow it out of the water.
As for Byram, he just needs time to fine tune his game. You can tell he's expecting to have more time with the puck, but the NHL is obviously quite a bit faster than the WHL. He's getting more and more comfortable with each game, but I'd really prefer that he returns to the Vancouver Giants, puts on a bit of size, and hopefully makes a run at the Mem Cup.
Zaddy
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Funny to hear these reports after everyone assured me was NHL ready and had "nothing left to prove in juniors".
I personally have only seen bits and pieces from the Vegas game so far but it wasn't all that pretty, even though the Avs broadcasters couldn't stop gushing about him. Own goal, icing the puck on the PP, skating it offside on the PP, being beaten to pucks on the backcheck, stuff like that. He has some things to work on despite what some people would like to believe.
I personally have only seen bits and pieces from the Vegas game so far but it wasn't all that pretty, even though the Avs broadcasters couldn't stop gushing about him. Own goal, icing the puck on the PP, skating it offside on the PP, being beaten to pucks on the backcheck, stuff like that. He has some things to work on despite what some people would like to believe.
So everyone is gushing about Makar, but condemning Byram ?
Makar 4oa, early BDay, took two years in NCAA after being drafted before playing in NHL.
Byram, 4oa, late Bday(8 mos younger than Makar when drafted), playing in some preseason NHL games 3 mos after being drafted.
How about a bit of perspective? Let the kid play a year of juniors, at least.
Makar 4oa, early BDay, took two years in NCAA after being drafted before playing in NHL.
Byram, 4oa, late Bday(8 mos younger than Makar when drafted), playing in some preseason NHL games 3 mos after being drafted.
How about a bit of perspective? Let the kid play a year of juniors, at least.
I would consider his "own goal" more of a fluke than him playing truly terrible which lead to an own goal. I also think he got overrated during his draft year, but I believe he has nothing left to prove in juniors. In the rookie tournament he played against a lot of AHL players and he was pretty much dominant against them. Where he should be is in the AHL, but because of the CHL rules he'll probably be stuck with the Avs, since I doubt they'll loan him out to Europe like the NLA or exhaust all his chances with the parent club forcing them to send him back to Vancouver.
Ararana
Registered User
Byram is going to be fine, he just needs time. I really don't think it matters where. I believe Byram is better overall right now than Makar was when drafted and has a better chance to make the NHL out of his draft year than Makar did. If the Avs were the 48 point team from two years ago Byram would probably be penciled into the lineup already.
In the end I still think the Avs keep him with the big club.
Zaddy
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Yah, the own goal wasn't necessarily terrible play by him or anything, stuff like that happens I guess, just thought it was sort of funny to see. Although I do think that him getting beat to the outside or losing those types of puck races will not be a completely irregular occurrence in the NHL. Not saying he lost this one though, if my memory serves me it was a 50-50 situation and he happened to get his stick on it.
Anyway, I do think he's got more to prove in juniors. I want to see him be able to play a full 200 foot game and really be in control of the game in every zone. I know you've said multiple times that he was a shutdown defender earlier in the season last year but I personally have never seen that side of him and I've watched plenty of games of him. For me it's not about him going down there and putting up points on the board, I want to see his game mature and for him to be able to make faster decisions with the puck on his stick. Like what Evan Bouchard was told to work on last season after dominating juniors the year before, I want to see Byram get better at puck retrievals, and then moving the puck out quickly rather than just rushing it up the ice with his skating.
And I want to see him get more assertive defensively in every way. Showing some actual compete in that zone and not letting guys walk all over him. There were so many instances in the game I watched last year where he made a really lackadaisical play, often along the boards and then just had the puck stolen and got walked for a great scoring opportunity for the other team. That's an area where I want to see big improvement.
I don't doubt that he could do well in the AHL but I also don't think that he's too good for juniors considering what I saw from him last year. There's always things to work on, and sometimes doing it at a lower level can be beneficial. At least I can't recall a single time that it has actually hurt a player's development.
EDIT: Also rookie tournaments don't really mean much. I've seen no-name or only average prospects have really good rookie tournaments for the Oilers and then fade away while high-end prospects like Draisaitl failing to make an impression. You can't really make any sort of judgement based off of that IMO.
JoemAvs
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- Jul 2, 2011
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I don't get why anyone is so surprised. IMO him making the team was always a tad unrealistic and I personally have always hoped that he gets sent back for another year.
He was very young for his draft year and the Avs blueline is already very inexperienced. Not a great match.
It also gives the Avs another year of salary cap flexibility down the road with his contract sliding which could be pretty valuable.
He gets to dominate Juniors, focus on his warts and be the #1 Dman on Team Canada at the WJC and maybe on another deep playoff run with the Giants. If that does not happen he maybe can join the Eagles on an ATO if they make the playoffs in the AHL . Whats not to like?
IMO thats a great way to spend your post draft season for a young defenseman.
Avs already have Makar, Girard and maybe Timmins who are all crazy young and have seniority. The NHL is a huge jump for Dmen. Especially coming from junior. He hasn't played against men yet like a Dahlin or Heiskanen did in their draft seasons. So no surprise that he is struggling a bit adapting.
Avs should send him back late to give him as much NHL time as possible and revisit next offseason. Extra development time sure did not hurt Makar, Hughes, McAvoy or Chabot.
He was very young for his draft year and the Avs blueline is already very inexperienced. Not a great match.
It also gives the Avs another year of salary cap flexibility down the road with his contract sliding which could be pretty valuable.
He gets to dominate Juniors, focus on his warts and be the #1 Dman on Team Canada at the WJC and maybe on another deep playoff run with the Giants. If that does not happen he maybe can join the Eagles on an ATO if they make the playoffs in the AHL . Whats not to like?
IMO thats a great way to spend your post draft season for a young defenseman.
Avs already have Makar, Girard and maybe Timmins who are all crazy young and have seniority. The NHL is a huge jump for Dmen. Especially coming from junior. He hasn't played against men yet like a Dahlin or Heiskanen did in their draft seasons. So no surprise that he is struggling a bit adapting.
Avs should send him back late to give him as much NHL time as possible and revisit next offseason. Extra development time sure did not hurt Makar, Hughes, McAvoy or Chabot.
serp
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- Jan 17, 2016
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I don't think he's ready for the pros . I have not seen his first pro game but Byram made some bad plays against a AHL caliber Stars squad. Didn't look great on the first goal and the game winning goal by Mersch was definitely his fault. Terrible turnover and then he made a wierd play on Faksa which ends up him deflecting the puck into his own goal.
He may not get much out of another year in the WHL but its either that or NHL and i doubt he's already at a point where he can help the Avs .
He may not get much out of another year in the WHL but its either that or NHL and i doubt he's already at a point where he can help the Avs .
Zaddy
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I would love to see a different angle on that sequence, to fully see what options are available to Byram at the time. Because just from that one clip it looks a lot like the Byram I know, and what I've criticized him for, namely being too slow to make decisions and also not being a great outlet passer.
I mentioned him as a shutdown defender not because he was good at it. I mean I thought he was solid at certain parts, especially when it came to surviving forecheques and breaking the puck out of the defensive zone. I said that because of how Dyck used him during early parts of the season. When he started trusting in Bo more and become comfortable with his own game it started to explode offensively, I still very much think it was a tail of two seasons for him. Not sure what statistics there are out there for junior hockey, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a large disparity between his points between the first three months of the Dub season compared to the final three months.
Once his offensive exploded, I saw him more of a Kris Letang type of defender where people overrated his defensive game simply because he had a "physical presence" out there. I agree he still has a lot of work to be done, one as you alluded to is just be more consistent in the defensive zone and honestly that comes with time and experience. With that said, if there is a part of his game which could regress it should be his offence where I think his stats are overblown compared to the actual amount of talent he has. That doesn't mean he sucks or anything, but I think he's more on the bottom-end of the elite spectrum when discussing talent than on the top end.
As for his lackadaisical play, I think a big part of it is when he started focusing on creating offence for his team. As the coach trusted him more, there was a distinct change in play where he kept the puck longer and went more for IDGAF rushes than what he did earlier by conducting smart out-zonal passes. Instead of focusing effort on the defensive side and making that lead to offence, he went sort of into his cocky nature of "I'll try to stickhandle it out of the zone and go on a Scott Niedermayer rush" which obviously doesn't work every time you do it. I am not trying to defend him here, but more of figuring what happened and why.
Zaddy
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AveryStar4Eva
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This is good experience for Byram he is learning what will and what won’t work in the NHL. Go back to junior and work on those gaps. I’m pretty sure September 2020 he will look 100x better.
BKarchitect
Registered User
Whatever happens not too worried. Quinn and Cale didn’t play in the NHL in their Draft+1 and it didn’t hurt them. Dobson, Boqvist, Bouchard...none played past their 9 games. It takes a freak like Dahlin or Heiskinen. Play the 9 games out and if he’s obviously not ready, back to Vancouver he goes. Nothing changes with his upside.
