LD Aron Kiviharju - TPS, FIN JRS (2024 Draft)

[Albatros]

rankings don't paint the whole picture. the hype around Granlund pre/post draft was much bigger than around Kabanov. That's the case when even AINEC sounds mild.

Post-draft Granlund did have some hype around him after his 2011 World Championship heroics, but that's an entirely separate issue.

 

[LeProspector]

I'll try with Lafreniere. But I still have hope for Lafreniere

About Kiviharju, I think he is a kid who matured very young, years ago he sounded like a veteran in interviews. Two serious injuries at a young age are pretty devastating for his future. I also think he has used incorrectly for a long time, Liiga is not the correct place to develop a small defenseman who needs to learn how to perfect his offense and skating.

Lafreniere still ended up going 1st overall rather convincingly and had all the accolades to back that up before he got drafted. sure, he has disappointed up the this point in the NHL, but he was def not overhyped pre draft like Kivi.

Kirill Kabanov


Angelo Esposito, Kirill Kabanov, Mikhail Grigorenko

I don’t remember anything about Esposito so I can’t comment there, but I will say this. Kivi has been hyped since he was 12, Esposito’s attention on what he might be only started when he was destroying the Q with Radulov.

Girgorenko is a good name, I’d still say Kiviharju ends up being more overhyped due to how high Grigorenko ended up being drafted anyway.

Kabanov is a great name. No doubt there.

 

[kp61c]

This such a absurd claim, Granlund wasn’t hyped anywhere near that. Had practially no hype till few months before being drafted due extremely succesfull period winning the Liiga with HIFK and being a standout player in the 2011 World Championships. No one except maybe Antero Mertaranta expected him to be a superstar in the NHL.

Ffs only media attention he got prior to his Draft year was in the summer before because he left Kärpät and there was a huge deal about how Kärpät had some of the best juniors in the Country but how they all had to leave to get Liiga opportunuties.

that's facts. he was hyped to the heavens, especially after the draft. stating that kabanov had more hype around him as a prospect is a disgusting rewriting of history.

 

[OKR]

that's facts. he was hyped to the heavens, especially after the draft. stating that kabanov had more hype around him as a prospect is a disgusting rewriting of history.

It’s not even close to being facts. Kinda funny how you’re only one to think that, but try to blame others for rewriting history

If basically everyone else remembers things differently than you, which is more likely to be true? Your memory, or everyone elses?

 

[Albatros]

Lafreniere still ended up going 1st overall rather convincingly and had all the accolades to back that up before he got drafted. sure, he has disappointed up the this point in the NHL, but he was def not overhyped pre draft like Kivi.

I don’t remember anything about Esposito so I can’t comment there, but I will say this. Kivi has been hyped since he was 12, Esposito’s attention on what he might be only started when he was destroying the Q with Radulov.

Girgorenko is a good name, I’d still say Kiviharju ends up being more overhyped due to how high Grigorenko ended up being drafted anyway.

Kabanov is a great name. No doubt there.

It's a strange thought that eventual NHL success would determine whether a player in juniors was "overhyped" or not. Kiviharju got attention in junior hockey because he dominated the U16 league at 13 and U20 at 15, that doesn't go away even if he never gets drafted.

 

[Svedu]

Kabanov was never hyped to be the 1st overall and was never a new ovechkin. I remember being pretty meh about him even then. Also you needn't be the first overall to be hyped to the heavens. If you look for the most hyped prospects you should not seek any further than Finns and Canadians. They are the most unhinged when it comes to hyping prospects.

Finns hyped? LOL! Complete and utter bs. I'm so sick and tired of reading this and similar mumbo jumbo.

Laine got som hype and rightfully so, I would still state he's a pretty damn good player nowadays?
Barkov got hyped, pretty damn good as well?
Aho didn't even get that much hype, nor did Hintz nor Rantanen? Pretty freaking awesome players as well.
Saros got some hype but a lot of fans were a bit skeptic regarding his size, well he's still a pretty darn good goalie?
Lundell got only hyped by Finnish fans and he's pretty damn good. Heiskanen as well.
Kotkaniemi never got any bigger hype from Finnish fans imo.

I'am guilty for hyping up Heinola and he has struggled, some prospects do. Is that something new for you? But I still do have the opinion that the Jets have mishandled a lot of prospects and him the most perhaps. The ability to read the game in offense is exceptional and I'm still sure that if he would've got time and confidence in the first PP and so on he would be their leading D as of today. He dominated his peers at the WJC's, Americans and Canadians that clearly wasn't as good as him and they've managed to get a decent opportunity at NHL level.

I mean I don't care about nationality as much in hyping prospects as you seem to do. Why? The ones I'm hyping up right now and have for a while, no matter how they succeed, are not only Finnish players.
The one I'm most intrigued about is Benak. Then you have Jiricek, Huuhtanen (will be difficult to take a spot in his franchise though), Hemming and others.
People don't recognize how good the CBJ can become with their Czech defensmen (Svozil another) together with Laine and others.
I want to add that Dostal is the biggest goalie prospect (as a prospect) I've witnessed after Rask, Vasi and Saros. A tier above great Swedish goalie prospects such as Wallstedt and others.
I like Nyman as well but perhaps more as a top6 or top9 compared to those above. He's no sure bet whatsoever. Is that overhyping for you?
Beniers was another one I praised because it was easy to see how much he lead his US against Finland and others at the junior level. His intensity stood out every shift back then.
Another prospect I always felt was overhyped because of a good WJC etc was Zadina. I instantly thought he was miles behind his fellow countryman in Necas who had the complete package but needed to add some weight.
When speaking about Necas? Lambert comes up to mind. Necas was always a great skater and perhaps a bit more skilled than Lambert and also a better finisher but all in all, pretty similar.
I hyped him up because the talent was crystal clear for me, even more so than with really big prospects like William Nylander and Pastrnak back in the days.
I mean it's great times to be a Czech now, they have one of the most talented D-cores growing up and I'm was-were high on Sapovaliv before his injury. What a great responsible, playmaking center. Kulich is another great talent.
Spacek is underrated.
I'm high on Sale and thought he should've went earlier. He's a bit raw but the fundamental talent and toolbox is there.
I've been quite high on Honzek and Dvorsky for a while now, guess what, not Finnish prospects.

Huuhtanen is interesting in that way I actually always felt he was "Underhyped", remembering seeing him at u18 on the fourth or third line and thinking "Hey, this kid has some serious size and is difficult to take the puck from, not too shabby hands and he can shoot as well, the only thing that could be an issue is his skating", I guess sometimes your eyes don't lie.
Another argument that shows you are completely wrong.
Lambert then? Well, he sure did look like a homerun prospect a couple of years ago. I mean he could fly out there just like McDavid and he was on a whole other level compared to his peers.
Then he struggled quite a lot and a lot Finnish fans recognized that and criticized him and rightfully so. Now after he has been good in a NA junior league he got another wave of hype behind him but hey, that's mostly from other fans in here than the Finnish fans because we've seen when him look clueless out there even when his toolbox is top notch. So, once again you are as wrong as someone can be.

Also, have you ever considered that fans from a specific country could have seen a talent a lot more than yourself? That's pretty common sherlock.
For an example, most Swedish fans in here do often have a better and fair view on Swedish prospects than myself and probably you. If there a lot of fans hyping up a prospect like Dahlin or another before others, they're often on to something. Has that ever struck your mind?

Määttä perhaps got a little hype and he was a damn good prospect who got cancer and whole lot of Injuries.
Puljujärvi and Juolevi are the only recent talents I can remember who got somewhat hyped and really busted and when speaking about Puljujärvi?
The hype he got was rightfully so, or do you have a different opinion? The kid got severe injuries and just didn't became the player we hoped and believed. But as a prospect, he was a monster and yes. he was absolutely just as good or better than Rantanen for an example.
Kakko then? Well, he was a freak of nature and almost dominated the mens WC? Hyped? Rightfully so. He was better than Slafkovsky at the same age and there is nothing controversial to it.
Tolvanen? He was a late round pick who got criticized a whole lot. He seems to have picked up his career in another franchise. Wow, is that even possible? I guess not buddy.
That's why I'm lifting up Heinola a bit extra. I wouldn't mind seeing Philly trading Ristolainen against Heinola and giving Ville all the tools he needs to achieve his old potential. You see what I did there? I have never been a fan of Ristolainen these last 5-6 years and he's Finnish? There you have your "biased" bs.

Also, I was never high on "Prospects" like Thomson and others and wrote about this early on. But when you or we do that there is a possibility that fans get mad, Sens fans in this case. Järventie looked liked dogs*t for a while but seems to have turned the trend upwards. Another point, everything can always happen. Both good and bad. You are just making up your mind that Finnish prospects get overhyped more than others.
The same when I've criticized the Jets for their way handling Heinola. Then you hear about Finnish fans being biased and so on. Again, complete and irrelevant bs.

Let's name Oiva Keskinen in here as well. No one has hyped him up and probably rightfully so. But of course some Finnish fans could get a bit excited of a potential "Late" bloomer gone under the radar. That's so much for your Finnish over hyping bud.

Regarding Canadians, I mean they do love hockey. Of course they will hype some prospects who could fail in the long run, perhaps Wright as another too hyped prospect.
But then again, I remember reading a whole lot of disbelief in another highly touted prospect like Brandt Clarke. The Canadians criticized him the most last year. So, as you can see and perhaps LEARN? Is that it goes both ways and it often does when people in general are passionated about something.
I mean if anything, your post is just false and a compliment to Canadian and Finnish fans in someway.


I hope this long *ss text can sh*t you up from those irrelevant, black or white perspective posts in the future.
Sensmoral? You are so wrong it's funny. Finns do not hype up players more than others and If you can read you have your facts above. End.

 

[ijuka]

Could have been a freak incident. Caught an edge and landed awkwardly, etc. Seems like a lengthy injury so I doubt it was a tweaked hamstring or something you would attribute to conditioning.

As much as everyone hates me here, I will now go on record to say that Kiviharju is now the dark horse of the draft. He will be very underscouted. Seems like someone the Rangers would take a shot on

Conditioning prevents freak incidents as well. HIFK list of injuries 2 weeks into the season:

Kotkansalo
Lepistö
Karhunen
Kaskimäki
Komarov
Sund
Koivistoinen
Kiviharju
Lundell

Seems to be quite a few for it to just be a coincidence. I'd assume there to be something wrong systematically.

 

[Svedu]

It's a strange thought that eventual NHL success would determine whether a player in juniors was "overhyped" or not. Kiviharju got attention in junior hockey because he dominated the U16 league at 13 and U20 at 15, that doesn't go away even if he never gets drafted.

Spot on.

 

[Svedu]

Good one, Toni Rajala aswell in 2009

And also understandable. Finlands perhaps only talent worth mentioning those years before was Tuukka Rask.
Rajala and Granlund stood out a whole lot back then.

Also, Rajala was actually talented. In someway I do believe he would've had a better career if he was born 10 or 12 years later and was an American. Speculative of course but still.
As a prospect he reminded very much of those small-ish prospects that American hockey has successfully developed. Like Keller, Cooley, Hughes and others.
Rajala was fast and perhaps the skill level wasn't there as much as with those American prospects above but then again, the Finnish were pretty much clueless or didn't have the organization and structure to develop or further develop their biggest talents back then.

Post-draft Granlund did have some hype around him after his 2011 World Championship heroics, but that's an entirely separate issue.

And more or less rightfully so? I mean he was good even if he was small and lacked the intensity.

 

[Svedu]

Lafreniere still ended up going 1st overall rather convincingly and had all the accolades to back that up before he got drafted. sure, he has disappointed up the this point in the NHL, but he was def not overhyped pre draft like Kivi.





I don’t remember anything about Esposito so I can’t comment there, but I will say this. Kivi has been hyped since he was 12, Esposito’s attention on what he might be only started when he was destroying the Q with Radulov.

Girgorenko is a good name, I’d still say Kiviharju ends up being more overhyped due to how high Grigorenko ended up being drafted anyway.

Kabanov is a great name. No doubt there.

Well, look who made a fool om himself by his own?
Lafreniere got more hyped than Kakko. He wasn't a much better player at the same age, rather the opposite because Kakko had shown what he could manage against pros both in Liiga and the mens WC.
Neither is Lafreniere nowadays a better player, but I guess a lot of NA hockey fans beg to differ or won't admit it.

 

[FinPanda]

Conditioning prevents freak incidents as well. HIFK list of injuries 2 weeks into the season:

Kotkansalo
Lepistö
Karhunen
Kaskimäki
Komarov
Sund
Koivistoinen
Kiviharju
Lundell

Seems to be quite a few for it to just be a coincidence. I'd assume there to be something wrong systematically.

Lepistö is not really an injury.. he has a heart condition why he needed to retire

 

[LeProspector]

Well, look who made a fool om himself by his own?
Lafreniere got more hyped than Kakko. He wasn't a much better player at the same age, rather the opposite because Kakko had shown what he could manage against pros both in Liiga and the mens WC.
Neither is Lafreniere nowadays a better player, but I guess a lot of NA hockey fans beg to differ or won't admit it.

I didn’t say anything about Kakko.

I said Kiviharju is one of the most overhyped prospect ever.

 

[Svedu]

Read your own sentences before playing smart.

"Lafreniere still ended up going 1st overall rather convincingly and had all the accolades to back that up before he got drafted."
First of all I disagree with this.

Second? By your logics regarding Laf you should be thinking that Kiviharju isn't overhyped one bit or is this some typical hypocrisy and inconsistent reasoning?
I mean the kid is 17 and a D. Has already been PPG or more than that at the WJC's-18 twice.
More than PPG at Hlinkas.
Most people find this years season underwhelming and he's still produced 2 points in 7 games as a 17-year old D without time on the PP against pro's and being somewhat undersized.
During his time with the younger national teams he's almost always been PPG as a D.
How many times do you want me to mention that he is a defender playing against older opponents and above that? Not being a physical monster like Ekblad and others.
Go watch Erik Karlssons numbers as a youngster and compare. And yeah, EK65 is only a generational D. Last but not least, Karlsson has never been that good at defending. But I guess he had some coaches along the way that believed in him and were ready and able to give him some time and confidence developing his strengths and letting him play the game in his own fashion. That's a big factor as well, especially regarding offensive D's. But I guess you've never heard or seen that before?
Risk taking or not, they were convinced of letting him (Karlsson) making some mistakes along the way and being more eager to see him succeed than being afraid of some bumps along the road.
That's often how the best productive D's develop in the first place. Another countryman pops up, Dahlin.
He didn't dominate in the beginning or did he?

David Jiricek is another one. I believe he could become really productive in the NHL. But he hasn't been able to shine every season.
20-21 wasn't that impressive from his side either, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have huge potential? Who knows, if CBJ can use him right and if he himself can put in the needed work? I do believe a lot in him as a OD. Especially if he gets time with Laine in the PP.

Sensmoral? I feel like you've already made up your mind but guess what? You don't know sh*t more than anyone else in here and you can't delete his old stats at different levels.
You have and are downplaying Kiviharju too much to be considered serious, wise or neutral. The end.

 

[JJTT]

Conditioning prevents freak incidents as well. HIFK list of injuries 2 weeks into the season:

Kotkansalo
Lepistö
Karhunen
Kaskimäki
Komarov
Sund
Koivistoinen
Kiviharju
Lundell

Seems to be quite a few for it to just be a coincidence. I'd assume there to be something wrong systematically.

It's been the same for the past 10 seasons with 5 or more guys injured all the time so yes there is.

 

[Svedu]

The fanbase is really badz. no doubt. they either fanboy over their players or inexplicably hate them. No in between.

This along with your earlier posts. The only thing you've managed is to show others your black or white perspective on everything regarding Finnish prospects.
I mean what more do you wish me to add? You've clearly shown your simple standpoint.
Name other nations and their prospects in your head and think again, you'll probably understand that sometimes prospects gets more hype, sometimes they don't, sometimes they are legit, sometimes not and that it's pretty common no matter their nationality.

I mean don't you believe germans got hyped when Stützle came along? Probably and rightfully so. Or the Swiss when Hischier or Bärtschi got drafted. Guess what? One succeeded and the other one failed. Does that necessarily mean that fans were wrong in hyping or believing in them?Were they Finnish?

Wasnt Yakupov hyped? Nugent Hopkins? Galchenyuk? Griffin Reinhart? Drouin? Dal Colle? Virtanen? Zboril? Juulsen? Alexander Nylander? Logan Brown? Rubtsov? Lias Andersson? Oettinger? Kravtsov?
Guess what? That list doesn't only consist of Finnish and Canadian players. Therefor you and the that other one are nothing but wrong.
Just like plenty of fans stating Kotkaniemi is the biggest bust ever, well, isn't it so that it's only Hughes and Tkachuk drafted after him that have been a lot more successful so far? Perhaps Sharangovich as well.
Kakko hasn't been any worse than pick number 3,4,5, 8, 11, or the majority of the first rounders from that year no matter what nationality.
Lundell then? He didn't get that much hype and I would state he's the second best together with Raymond after Stützle from that years draft.

I mean what is your freaking point? What do you want to achieve? You have nothing speaking in favor of your negativity or pessimism.

Also Kiviharju is the biggest argument that you and your one sided opinion is nothing but your own made bs.
Because most Finnish fans in here are not at all sure that he is a sure bet, but not many have counted him off either. Most seem to be quite excited but nothing over the top or worth mentioning. He's very young and he's been unlucky this year with both how he's been used and his injury. That doesn't mean he's overhyped or that his future success is written in stone.
It's more like you and perhaps one or another who have created a simple conclusion of what Finnish fans are in general and stubbornly insist of keeping it alive.

 

[bigdog16]

Well, look who made a fool om himself by his own?
Lafreniere got more hyped than Kakko. He wasn't a much better player at the same age, rather the opposite because Kakko had shown what he could manage against pros both in Liiga and the mens WC.
Neither is Lafreniere nowadays a better player, but I guess a lot of NA hockey fans beg to differ or won't admit it.

Not on here he didn't. Kakko hype was thru the roof the 6 months leading up to the draft. Laf was seen as a player that would step in and contribute right away as an 18 year old. People on here were saying Kakko's floor as an 18 year old was a point per game player

 

[BB88]

Not on here he didn't. Kakko hype was thru the roof the 6 months leading up to the draft. Laf was seen as a player that would step in and contribute right away as an 18 year old. People on here were saying Kakko's floor as an 18 year old was a point per game player

Yet after Kakkos hype everyone expected Laf to be the face of the franchise.

 

[bigdog16]

Yet after Kakkos hype everyone expected Laf to be the face of the franchise.

Lol, no they didn't. They had just signed a bonafide superstar in Panarin. The expectation was for Laf to ease his way in, and development-wise it was clearly not best for him.

But nobody expected him to be the face of the franchise

 

[Garl]

Not on here he didn't. Kakko hype was thru the roof the 6 months leading up to the draft. Laf was seen as a player that would step in and contribute right away as an 18 year old. People on here were saying Kakko's floor as an 18 year old was a point per game player

Lafreniere.was touted as a generational guy, stop the gaslighting LOL

 

[bigdog16]

Lafreniere.was touted as a generational guy, stop the gaslighting LOL

No he was certainly not. He was similarly hyped as a Stamkos. He was not nearly hyped as Bedard McDavid. He was definitely not hyped as a generational prospect

 

[Garl]

No he was certainly not. He was similarly hyped as a Stamkos. He was not nearly hyped as Bedard McDavid. He was definitely not hyped as a generational prospect

Well, no McDavid, Crosby, Bedard, but somewhere around MacKinnon, Matthews, Tavares

 

[bigdog16]

Well, no McDavid, Crosby, Bedard, but somewhere around MacKinnon, Matthews, Tavares

He was less hyped than Matthews and Tavares. Probably similar to Mackinnon. Although Mack has exceeded his hype by a good amount thus far

 

[Svedu]

He was less hyped than Matthews and Tavares. Probably similar to Mackinnon. Although Mack has exceeded his hype by a good amount thus far

No he wasn't, the end.
He was just as hyped as Matthews and more than Hughes.
Stop it already. You're giving the impression of creating your own truth when you insist on having right in every single topic even when you are far from it.
Laf even got almost just as hyped as Bedard. The difference was Bedards last year or years when he excelled at every level, more so than the perhaps overhyped Laf.
Don't you remember Shane Wright was considered to be almost at the same level before these two last years?
Majority of experts seemed to believe that Bedard and Michkov were to be pretty close 2 years ago as well.

 

[wetcoast]

rankings don't paint the whole picture. the hype around Granlund pre/post draft was much bigger than around Kabanov. That's the case when even AINEC sounds mild.

Does it even matter?

This kid was really hyped at an extremely young age and sadly this injury along with the start of the season is going to hurt his draft position and might even bump him out of the first round depending on how others progress and project.

Hopefully he fully recovers and we can see him develop in the best environment for him to do so.

 

[canuckslover10]

Damn on a sidenote I can't believe this thread started in 2017