LD Aron Kiviharju - TPS, FIN JRS (2024 Draft)

[Breakfast of Champs]

Obviously they play different positions, and its a little taboo to make the comparison - but does anyone else see a little Crosby in the way he reads the game or how he positions himself around the puck?

Obviously they differ in many ways, but he looks more like a guy who dominates by knowing how to make the right reads/simple plays at a much higher rate than most.

 

[Preposterone]

Reminds me of Quinn Hughes with a better wrist shot, at least in this tiny sample size. Dare I say shades of Coffey?

 

[Zub]

This kid is going to be something really special, I remember how amazed I was by his game at the u18's. Insane hockey IQ.

 

[Ippenator]

Hes 16 so he most likely grows. But it will be interesting if he stays 5’9. That is a small dman regardless of how elite he is

He is in fact already 178 cm / 5’10 tall, so the answer is already there. He won’t stay 5’9. He might as well grow an inch or two still, but even if he stays as 5’10, he will be less than an inch shorter than Fox or Makar. And he would be then exactly as tall as Quinn Hughes. I don’t see really any problems with his size even as he is now (especially with the special talent that he has), although, I see it likely that he will anyway grow still at least an inch more.

 

[Nate070]

It’s as if Kiviharju sees half a second into the future, his ability to anticipate his opponents’ moves is amazing.

Actually he looks into the next game already and ancitipates his moves accordingly . What a smart player. The sky is the limit here

 

[teravaineSAROS]

He is in fact already 178 cm / 5’10 tall, so the answer is already there. He won’t stay 5’9. He might as well grow an inch or two still, but even if he stays as 5’10, he will be less than an inch shorter than Fox or Makar. And he would be then exactly as tall as Quinn Hughes. I don’t see really any problems with his size even as he is now (especially with the special talent that he has), although, I see it likely that he will anyway grow still at least an inch more.

He looks smaller though. Quinn Hughes said he and Jack are 5'10 on a good day and they're doing fine so I'm not saying it's a big deal, but I'm guessing he got measured by the same bloke who measured Kemell.

 

[Ippenator]

He looks smaller though. Quinn Hughes said he and Jack are 5'10 on a good day and they're doing fine so I'm not saying it's a big deal, but I'm guessing he got measured by the same bloke who measured Kemell.

Well, players can have very different body types, and to start to evaluate how tall someone is on the basis of how he looks to your eye is practically as foolish as it is to judge someones skating on the basis of how pleasing it is to your eyes.

A lot of the time people get completely confused and incorrect with their estimations on these things. Sure measures can also change for whatever reasons, but until they are clearly proven wrong by some new measures, we just have to go on with them. For me for example Miro Heiskanen has never looked like he could be 185 cm tall. He looks more like about 180 cm tall. But as every possible source has him as 185 cm, I have agreed that until it is proven officially incorrect, he is then 185 cm, no matter how much he looks shorter than that to me.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Well, players can have very different body types, and to start to evaluate how tall someone is on the basis of how he looks to your eye is practically as foolish as it is to judge someones skating on the basis of how pleasing it is to your eyes.

A lot of the time people get completely confused and incorrect with their estimations on these things. Sure measures can also change for whatever reasons, but until they are clearly proven wrong by some new measures, we just have to go on with them. For me for example Miro Heiskanen has never looked like he could be 185 cm tall. He looks more like about 180 cm tall. But as every possible source has him as 185 cm, I have agreed that until it is proven officially incorrect, he is then 185 cm, no matter how much he looks shorter than that to me.

That's fair. Kemell looks bigger than his size aswell. I don't think size will be an issue since he's elusive, he just needs to keep building muscle especially on his legs

 

[ijuka]

Hm, looking at Lassi Alanen's stats for Finnish players in Hlinka, this was pretty interesting:


Considering the talk of Kiviharju as an offensive defenseman and all.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Hm, looking at Lassi Alanen's stats for Finnish players in Hlinka, this was pretty interesting:


Considering the talk of Kiviharju as an offensive defenseman and all.

His decision making was insane for a kid who's not even going to get drafted this year. I'm starting to see why you hyped him up for so long.

My biggest concern was that he might try to force plays by himself like a lot of prospects that are used to dominating tend to do. What I saw though was that he efficiently picked when to pass and when to keep going. Relative to his age he seemed so seasoned.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Adam Fox is certainly the best comparison i've seen

I take some responsibility as I suggested it earlier in this thread, but watching him more closely I don’t think it’s exact. I think he’s more Campbell or Rafalski. Fox has the best hockey sense in hockey. Kiviharju sees some plays develop early and makes pretty good decisions, but Fox is a level that I don’t see from Kiviharju in that part of the game.

 

[ijuka]

Campbell or Rafalski? What on earth are these comparisons? "Some plays develop early and makes pretty good decisions", well I guess you not thinking it's that high is just further verification that it's very high.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Campbell or Rafalski? What on earth are these comparisons? "Some plays develop early and makes pretty good decisions", well I guess you not thinking it's that high is just further verification that it's very high.

Why are you mad? Are those not very good NHL players at their best? You want him compared to a top 3 defenseman in the NHL? If that’s what you expect, he’s the no doubt best player in the 2024 draft before we even see the other candidates. I think he’s very good, but closer to Campbell or Rafalski than Fox.

 

[Ippenator]

Why are you mad? Are those not very good NHL players at their best? You want him compared to a top 3 defenseman in the NHL? If that’s what you expect, he’s the no doubt best player in the 2024 draft before we even see the other candidates. I think he’s very good, but closer to Campbell or Rafalski than Fox.

You should compare him to the 16 year old Fox instead of completely comparing him to the NHL player that Fox is right now. Not very good hockey sense from you here in fact.

 

[ijuka]

Why are you mad? Are those not very good NHL players at their best? You want him compared to a top 3 defenseman in the NHL? If that’s what you expect, he’s the no doubt best player in the 2024 draft before we even see the other candidates. I think he’s very good, but closer to Campbell or Rafalski than Fox.

I'm not mad, I just don't think anything you said is close to being accurate.

I don't think the play style comparisons are even close, I do think he'll be a top draft choice in 2024, and I think his hockey IQ is sky high, not "pretty good". Just because I disagree with everything you said, it doesn't mean I'm mad.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You should compare him to the 16 year old Fox instead of completely comparing him to the NHL player that Fox is right now. Not very good hockey sense from you here in fact.

People are comparing him to a bunch of players no one expected to be NHL Stars. It’s pretty common to compare prospects to what the finished products are, not what they were at an age none of us knew what they were. But if you have an opinion on that, tell us how you think they compared.

 

[Ippenator]

People are comparing him to a bunch of players no one expected to be NHL Stars. It’s pretty common to compare prospects to what the finished products are, not what they were at an age none of us knew what they were. But if you have an opinion on that, tell us how you think they compared.

I never saw Fox play as a 16 year old, but I did see him play as a 17 year old at the U18 WJC tournament. He was for sure very good, but I didn’t see him at least in any way more exceptional with his hockey sense than what I have seen from Kiviharju already now. Sure now after many years of development and NHL experience I think that Fox is absolutely magnificent and he has one of the best hockey senses in the NHL. But as a 17 year old he definitely didn’t look as exceptional, although he definitely did look very good, that I’ll admit any time.

 

[Zub]

Usual suspects arguing here again, calm down.

 

[Rengorlex]

Bad choice to not have him in U20.

 

[Zub]

Bad choice to not have him in U20.

I second this, he's elusive enough and smart enough to do well in this tournament.

 

[FinPanda]

Bad choice to not have him in U20.

We had bunch of 2002's and he is 2006. He wasn't even close to making the team. Maybe in December.

I think its definitely fair to give these guys another chance after the tournament being cancelled.

 

[Nate070]

We had bunch of 2002's and he is 2006. He wasn't even close to making the team. Maybe in December.

I think its definitely fair to give these guys another chance after the tournament being cancelled.

I know it has only been one game but it looked like a bunch of chickens out there tonight against Latvia

 

[Jukurit]

He hasn't even played in Liiga yet. I'd wait until he does that, before penciling him into the WJC lineup.

 

[BB88]

He hasn't even played in Liiga yet. I'd wait until he does that, before penciling him into the WJC lineup.

Why should that matter?

This is a u20 tourney.
If he’s that good put him in, not like Canadas team is build around pros

 

[Jukurit]

Why should that matter?

This is a u20 tourney.
If he’s that good put him in, not like Canadas team is build around pros

Just to see that he can handle playing at higher level. (Which he probably can, but always good to be sure)