LD Aron Kiviharju - TPS, FIN JRS (2024 Draft)

[FinnishSniper]

I just finished looking at the shift by shift vid and damn I gotta say I was damn impressed with this kid. Good job ijuka. Yeah the 2014 draft is damn far away, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a talent couldn't pass the test of time.

Looks like he can really skate, backwards and forward while the movement looks extremely natural and fluid. You'd never guess that he's playing against the older age group as it seemed more as if there was an older kid playing amongst peewees. He was by far the best player on the ice in those clips.

Too early to make any definite predictions but I would be surprised if I didn't hear from this kid in the coming years. That's the very definition of talent right there. Here's to hoping he grooooows.

Seven years till' the first ever 1st overall for the country?

Mikko Kokkonen and Kasper Simontaival do have a legit shot at 1st OA

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Mikko Kokkonen and Kasper Simontaival do have a legit shot at 1st OA

But do they reaally really?

 

[ijuka]

I just finished looking at the shift by shift vid and damn I gotta say I was damn impressed with this kid. Good job ijuka. Yeah the 2014 draft is damn far away, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a talent couldn't pass the test of time.

Looks like he can really skate, backwards and forward while the movement looks extremely natural and fluid. You'd never guess that he's playing against the older age group as it seemed more as if there was an older kid playing amongst peewees. He was by far the best player on the ice in those clips.

Too early to make any definite predictions but I would be surprised if I didn't hear from this kid in the coming years. That's the very definition of talent right there. Here's to hoping he grooooows.

Seven years till' the first ever 1st overall for the country?

Mikko Kokkonen has a pretty good chance depending on how he does in Liiga this season, IMO. #2 in points all time for his age in A-juniors, only behind Patrik Laine - as a defenseman playing on a crappy team that finished #16 out of 19. But he does have the D penalty. These days, it seems that if you want to go #1OA, you pretty much need to be a C.


As for Aron, it obviously is earlier than I'd usually consider "meaningful", but I really couldn't help but be blown away. It's good that you bring up that he seems to play in a really mature way, that's what I have thought as well. The only big issue he seems to have is in defensive play. He sometimes does go for these haphazard stick checks and when it fails, the opponents can get 2-1s and 3-1s. I'm not sure if that's something he does simply because as a 11-year-old vs 13-year-olds he really can't outmuscle anyone or if that's something that he really needs to learn to not do. He also does some standing around in the defensive zone.

On the other hand, considering the general level of defensive play for these 13-year-old defensemen, he probably would still compare favorably. Need to keep that in mind.

 

[FinnishSniper]

But do they reaally really?

Kokkonen at least has a great chance. The kid will probably play top-4 minutes in Liiga.

 

[kelsier]

As for Aron, it obviously is earlier than I'd usually consider "meaningful", but I really couldn't help but be blown away. It's good that you bring up that he seems to play in a really mature way, that's what I have thought as well. The only big issue he seems to have is in defensive play. He sometimes does go for these haphazard stick checks and when it fails, the opponents can get 2-1s and 3-1s. I'm not sure if that's something he does simply because as a 11-year-old vs 13-year-olds he really can't outmuscle anyone or if that's something that he really needs to learn to not do. He also does some standing around in the defensive zone.

On the other hand, considering the general level of defensive play for these 13-year-old defensemen, he probably would still compare favorably. Need to keep that in mind.

Being 11 years old and playing against 13 year olds makes a huge difference. These kids are growing fast and their body weight and height can have huge variations between the years. There's absolutely nothing to do worry about with occasional mistakes or giveaways when you're this young. We must remember that these kids are being let a lot more freedom in the ice and while they are competing, they are still just kids. You can clearly see that he can compensate those mistakes. It's hard enough to play as a double underager and even more so when your playing on the blue line. When they get older coaches will start focusing on those weaknesses and try weed them out. Luckily it's the coaching that has changed since the last decades along with the mentality, so the promising kids like him get more and more opportunities to excel and get better.

I would say Aron is someone you absolutely have to keep an eye on. Those numbers don't lie and eye-tests confirms that he has exceptional talent compared to his peers. Of course as I said before it's far too early to make predictions regarding his draft status and being a D doesn't necessarily raise the stocks (unless you've the packet of Dahlin f.ex.). Not to mention being absolutely clueless in terms of his competition in 2024. Yet I would love to read updates on him and his development. I hope you can keep a tail and keep the rest of us in the loop.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

Mikko Kokkonen and Kasper Simontaival do have a legit shot at 1st OA

Kokkonen yes(Call me crazy but I actually believe he could outdo Dahlin), but I'm not to sure about Simontaival, there is some really good talent in Holtz and Lafreniere in that same year and not to mention Simontaival is pretty small right now, I wouldn't rank him out of the Top 5 and in Skill Top 2 but that's just today.

 

[FinnishSniper]

Kokkonen yes(Call me crazy but I actually believe he could outdo Dahlin), but I'm not to sure about Simontaival, there is some really good talent in Holtz and Lafreniere in that same year and not to mention Simontaival is pretty small right now, I wouldn't rank him out of the Top 5 and in Skill Top 2 but that's just today.

Yeah Simontaival's brothers are really small. Now that I think of it I'm pretty sure it will be Holtz or Lafreniere being the top 2, because of Simontaival being so small. I am really excited about Kokkonen though, I really don't see much competition in terms of D-men that can challenge him of being the best Defenseman in the draft

 

[ijuka]

Being 11 years old and playing against 13 year olds makes a huge difference. These kids are growing fast and their body weight and height can have huge variations between the years. There's absolutely nothing to do worry about with occasional mistakes or giveaways when you're this young. We must remember that these kids are being let a lot more freedom in the ice and while they are competing, they are still just kids. You can clearly see that he can compensate those mistakes. It's hard enough to play as a double underager and even more so when your playing on the blue line. When they get older coaches will start focusing on those weaknesses and try weed them out. Luckily it's the coaching that has changed since the last decades along with the mentality, so the promising kids like him get more and more opportunities to excel and get better.

I would say Aron is someone you absolutely have to keep an eye on. Those numbers don't lie and eye-tests confirms that he has exceptional talent compared to his peers. Of course as I said before it's far too early to make predictions regarding his draft status and being a D doesn't necessarily raise the stocks (unless you've the packet of Dahlin f.ex.). Not to mention being absolutely clueless in terms of his competition in 2024. Yet I would love to read updates on him and his development. I hope you can keep a tail and keep the rest of us in the loop.

Yeah, it's very noticeable. Even if I ignore Aron, that team has at least like 5 players who are regularly doing some pretty remarkable dekes through opponents etc. It seems to me like they have a very good techniques coach. I'm actually really confident there's at least one other guy we'll be hearing about in the future in some manner as his hands are almost as good as Aron's(Jesperi Kaukonen). Okay, that's a bit too generous but still, very impressive and the second-best hands I've seen at that level. Even their defensive defenseman who has 4 times less points than Aron has made some pretty eye-opening dekes through guys. And the group also seems to have really high competitiveness. Even if they are leading 12-0 they continue pushing hard for the players to keep trying. You could call it a really "tryhard" team. I think that that's in its core a very good environment to improve in, though they need some stronger competition as they just bulldozed through everyone last season. For instance: 9 games played, 96 goals for, 24 against...

It'll be interesting to see if Aron will play the entire next season with this same age group or if he'll be given the opportunity to try his hand in C2 juniors. That'd be great as they get a lot larger a portion of their games recorded. He already did play one game at the D1 last season, so it's not that that'd be something completely out of question.

 

[Loffer]

Okay, call me blind or ignorant but the kid doesn't stand out to me from the lot or pot; but he is two years underager, sure.

Generally, I am a bit disappointed how slow and bad the game looks at that age. Maybe I have forgotten to watch kid's hockey for that long that my impression gets this skewed. Also, the game might look as if 'better' by the rink; video gives probably less intensive and lazier impression of the game and it s pace. Since, whatever is the truth, they all look quite bad skaters to my eye; I would blaze by them like a wind, but okay I am fully fit adult with lots of pace and legit muscle in my legs .

Yet, I bet I was a better skater at that age, not talking about Aron Kiviharju but the other lot. In general.

Kids should focus on their edge work, technique, posture, agility etc...

 

[ijuka]

Hmmm... he should stand out. The difference is still pretty significant even if you ignore the age.

And, of course, Finnish hockey and NA hockey does have its differences. In NA PeeWee, it sure is much more coast-to-coast than in Finland and I guess that's why skating doesn't get stressed as much. While the level is, certainly, below Canadian PeeWee leagues and whatnot, it still is very difficult to lead the league in PPG as a defenseman, let alone as a double underager. That sort of a thing does generally not happen for double underagers - As an example, Jesse Puljujärvi is perhaps the most dominant junior player Finland's had in recent years, and he as a double underager in the u16 league scored only 34 points in 23 games, which is nowhere the league's top scoring.

Now, the u13 level isn't nearly the same as the u16 level, but it's in my opinion even more difficult to dominate at u13 level as a double underager than at the u16 level. Two years is so much larger a portion of one's age at that point. Of course, we're going to have to wait and see for him to play some more in order for us to get better comparisons(Puljujärvi only started to play in a significant league at the age of 13).

I believe Patrik Laine was playing in C2 juniors at the age of u14, which would only be 1 year underage. 2 year underagers doing so well are really difficult for me to even think of. And D1/D2 scoring hasn't really been available for very long time so it's even more difficult to compare.


And of course, it needs to be kept in mind that he's a defenseman. The #2 D in PPG in the group stages was, well... at 10 points in 10 games. Aron Kiviharju had 47 in 14 games. And for the league itself, #2 defenseman in the division in PPG was at 13 points in 9 games. Very few actually had a PPG as a defenseman. Aron Kiviharju was at 36 points in 9 games.

 

[Loffer]

Those point totals are crazy for a D of double underager, I must say.

I wasn't thinking the stats at all. And only watched some parts of the clips. To be fair I should give it a proper watch.

And I might have been waiting for a more outstanding performance being overcritical and noting all the little mistakes.

The kid must be exceptional at this point of the development. Yet, it is not a linear nor predetermined/
unified process so who knows if his peers catch him up later.

I also disagree with the notion the general skill and ability difference between 11 and 13 yo kids would be greater than between 14 and 16 yo adolescents. It is individual of course but in general the puberty makes the gap wider among the latter age groups of boys, especially in a country like Finland where boys seem to develop and grow relatively late.

 

[ijuka]

Well, the reason I say that is that it just often so happens that the exceptional prospects in Finland only start playing 2 years above their level around B-juniors, as 15-year-olds in the u18 league. Certainly, it's true that puberty does play a part but the timing for that also varies from person to person. But I do have to say that it's been far more common for me to find 14-year-olds playing against 16-year-olds than finding 11- and 12-year-olds playing against 13- and 14-year-olds at least in these Finnish leagues.

I guess it's fair enough that you were being overly critical, I guess. But that still doesn't change the fact that even when he's not scoring points he's very positively visible to me, and absolutely does separate himself from the pack. His basic play even without any dangles and crazy tricks seems to be significantly above the other players he is playing with or against, at least involving the puck.

Oh... I guess that as I now got a pretty good excuse to write a new post, here's a clip featuring his slap shot:

https://streamable.com/l13ah

And one can correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've seen, that's not exactly the norm for 10-year-olds(As he was at the time). Will be looking forward to seeing the radar readings when he's like 15 years old.

 

[Loffer]

Yeah, after watching with a more focused mindset for a (little more lol) prolonged time I must admit this kid does stand out from the bunch with his nifty moves and stick & edge work.

To be fair, I like also a couple of smaller size forwards in that group: #10 and #24 caught my eye by this short viewing. - We can only wait (and hope and pray) and see...

 

[JJTT]

https://streamable.com/l13ah

That's crazy. I could barely get the puck off the ice at that age

 

[Newfoundland]

That's crazy. I could barely get the puck off the ice at that ice

He got a bomb

 

[ijuka]

Yeah, after watching with a more focused mindset for a (little more lol) prolonged time I must admit this kid does stand out from the bunch with his nifty moves and stick & edge work.

To be fair, I like also a couple of smaller size forwards in that group: #10 and #24 caught my eye by this short viewing. - We can only wait (and hope and pray) and see...

Speaking of #10, this one was pretty neat:

https://streamable.com/o74xg

And he still is only 12 years old - 2004 late birthday.

The team Aron plays for really should be rather good for the age group. They even destroyed some D1(year older) AA teams(AAA is the highest level) with like a 13-5 goal differential. Of course, the competition they face itself is of varying quality.

 

[ijuka]

There have been some practice matches today(And earlier in this month) for Aron's team. He's still playing 2 years above his age group. It's pretty clear that the games are pretty slow and not all that intense - being practice matches and all. His skating certainly isn't there yet.

However, them hands have been looking so nice I decided to make a little clip(still #11):

https://streamable.com/0vgw1

If tomorrow's got some games streamed as well as expected, I might make a second one or combine them. Last season he was rather weak in the practice games and really picked it up as the official season started so him looking this good already probably bodes well for the season.


I also really wonder if he'll be able to play at the C2(u15) AAA level this season, even if it only was a single game. It would be rather historical. He played 1 official game 3 years above his age group last season but went pointless.

His team also has a tournament coming up next weekend, from 26th to 27th of August:

http://www.gameresultsonline.com/rauman-lukko-ry/pitsiturnaus-d1/1783/games

I am not sure if the games will be streamed anywhere, but this is a relatively highly regarded tournament and should have some excellent competition. Especially Blues has traditionally been one of the best junior teams in Finland. Looking forward to seeing how his scoring is there. I believe that these will be the first "real" games of the season with some urgency.

 

[Loffer]

Speaking of #10, this one was pretty neat:

https://streamable.com/o74xg

And he still is only 12 years old - 2004 late birthday.

Wow. A nice toe drag from Rasmus the Kid.

 

[TheFinnishTrap]

Wow. A nice toe drag from Rasmus the Kid.

I'm out of the loop here, who's #10?

 

[ijuka]

I'm out of the loop here, who's #10?

Aron's teammate... Not really someone to look for at this point in time. He's 2 years(in seasons, actually 1 year and a month) older. Played in the international WSI tournament thing and notched 1 assist in 5 games if memory serves me right. Had 15+14=29 points for his own age group in the Finnish D2 minors. But some good flashes from time to time. Who knows, he's still young.

Speaking of WSI by the way, Aron has the 2 highest defenseman point totals for the u12 WSI invitational tournament. If he gets invited to that category again in 2018, he has the chance to have the top 3 defenseman point totals for that age group. That'd probably be a pretty difficult record to break.

 

[BondraTime]

Quite a bit too early

 

[Tryamkin]

Why are we still talking about this
A lot can change in 6 years as we know. See ya in 6 years..

 

[ViktorBaeArvidsson]

How come whenever theirs a good offensive defense-man in a draft he's always compared to Erik Karlsson Makar, Dahlin, and now an 11 year old.

 

[Rhyagelle]

this is ****ed up, but hey maybe the OP wins in the lottery.

 

[FinProspects]

Laine, Granlund, Puljujärvi stood out at very, very young age. Everyone in Oulu-area knew Granlund at age of 11. Puljujärvi was 11 when they wrote the legendary article of him scoring 8 goals in the SM-Bandy final, which ended 8-7. At age of 13 Pulju moved to Oulu and started in C-juniors, and everyone here already knew him. Ville Nieminen said that Laine was noticed when he was under 10y old, because he was scoring goals all the time.

if you are special, age doesn’t really matter.

Only time will tell how Aron ends up, but I find these kind of threads very interesting.