WC: Latvia Roster Talk 2022

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It's not even that, I think we can all agree the bottom half of Latvia's roster is still pretty bad players. What Daugavins doesn't seem to realize is that he is a pretty bad player himself nowadays. He scored 4 points in 16 games with the NT and played 2nd line on a non-competitive NL team this season. He needs to wake up.

From what he sounds like I'm happy he quit, him and Indrasis can just ride away into the sunset for all I care.
 
It's not even that, I think we can all agree the bottom half of Latvia's roster is still pretty bad players. What Daugavins doesn't seem to realize is that he is a pretty bad player himself nowadays. He scored 4 points in 16 games with the NT and played 2nd line on a non-competitive NL team this season. He needs to wake up.

From what he sounds like I'm happy he quit, him and Indrasis can just ride away into the sunset for all I care.
If we talk about wingers specifically, then they are Balcers, Keninsh, Jelisejevs, Ri Bukarts, Ro Bukarts, Dzierkals, Krastenbergs and Marenis. I don't think any of them are specifically bad. Of course, Balcers is an NHLer and first liner and Keninsh is going to be on the first line because of chemistry but other pairs are kinda interchangeable based on how they play and gel. You can definitely throw Daugavinsh somewhere there in the mix. Playing on the second line in Switzerland is still a lot for a Latvian so I don't believe his is done yet. But he needs to come and show that he deserves a big role, not demand it because his name is Kaspars Daugavinsh.
 
If we talk about wingers specifically, then they are Balcers, Keninsh, Jelisejevs, Ri Bukarts, Ro Bukarts, Dzierkals, Krastenbergs and Marenis. I don't think any of them are specifically bad.
Daugavins played more games for the NT at the center than he has on the wing, I'm certain of it. And below Abols there are Smirnovs, Dzerins and Batna. All of whom are kinda flat-out bad for this level.
 
As much as Daugavins is one of the most impactful players in the Latvian NT history, he kinda did it all a long time ago. He had his best tourney with 9 points in 7 games in 2014-2015, and then 4, then 3, then skipped 3 WC's in a row, then 1 point. I was also surprised to find out that he only has 0+2 per 12 games in 3 Olympics. It seems that he stopped caring about the NT a loooong time ago. He may have only a slight edge over Smirnovs and Dzerins, and Batna is surprisingly good at being a center even without any skill. His screens during exhibition games were superb.
So, while it is tempting and understandable to expect production from Daugavins due to his continued successful club career, he did not do anything significant in the NT for 6 (!!!) years. Darzins, while also missing WC's due to injuries, and being 3 years older, continued strong, and is a bigger loss for me. I'm not sure Daugavins even deserves a spot on the top 3 lines now.
 
Daugavins played more games for the NT at the center than he has on the wing, I'm certain of it. And below Abols there are Smirnovs, Dzerins and Batna. All of whom are kinda flat-out bad for this level.
When was the last time he played at centre? He has played only wing for years. To the point that I don't think anyone considers him a centre player anymore. Otherwise, he would have definitely played there in the Olympics, given, as you correctly mentioned, our 'amazing' centre depth.
 
Well he never was a center, no doubt about that but neither is Indrasis and that was kind of the point. If he was as good as he says at "outrunning and outworking" guys that 2nd line center spot has been up for taking for years. And yet we will, most likely, have Smirnovs playing there.
 
A couple of things.

The depth of the Latvian talent pool, particularly wingers, has increased immensely over the last decade. This year is going to prove that to the general audience in Latvia, who are used and almost fixated to a dozen or so last names as if no one else could fill their shoes in an instant. The expectations back home are very low for some odd reason, so there's not much pressure on this team at all.

Right now, most of the leading Latvian wingers over the age of 30 are soft/skilled types. They are used to having sheltered top 6 roles in Dinamo Riga or used to cruising in some of the middling Euro leagues in Czechia or elsewhere. Roberts Bukarts, Indrasis, Darzins all fit this mold perfectly. Daugavins used to be an energy guy, I remember watching him play every single game for the Sens. He was a completely different kind of a player back then. Over the last few years he has lost that edge, he has lost his speed and slowly transitioned into being a somewhat lazy/slow soft/skilled guy himself. That and him being an antivaxx nutjob has sort of changed his role with the national team. So him retiring is not really a major loss. Sure, he would still be an asset, particularly on the PP, but the Latvian national team has an established identity and a system in place that has overgrown any single coach or star player. That gritty, disciplined, all-out team effort has become a team philosophy by now. We have become a less skilled Finland. Does Daugavins or Indrasis fit this philosophy? I don't think so.

Losing a couple of soft wingers like that has not put a dent in our roster. Even more than that, we could afford to drop a couple more wingers and add guys like Tralmaks, Egle or Zabusovs without losing any skill or maybe even improving a little bit. And, frankly, I think it's enough with Ro. Bukarts roleplaying Ovi, we don't need other players not forechecking and not throwing their bodies around.

Despite increased depth, the current line-up is obviously not without its major shortcomings. Our lack of decent centermen is a massive headache. We have a very solid 1C in Abols, a good shutdown 3C/4C in Batna who has got great size by the way. But that 2C and 3C role is pretty much filled up by third tier players in Smirnovs and Dzerins. Now, Smirnovs can actually play in a sheltered role also at this level. He's going to get some points against the likes of GB, Austria or Norway. He can get some O zone starts, some PP time and be good enough for us. At times. Dzerins is just all-around below average. Without 2 scoring lines, we're not going to be much of a threat against Finland, Sweden or Czechia. We are sorely missing a skilled C like Blueger in that 2C role. (Go Rangers?)

If Blueger AND Girgensons were here, this would be a very competitive lineup. I mean, you can't even compare Smirnovs with Blueger. It's ridiculous.

We are also sorely lacking puck-moving defencemen who can actually contribute offensively. Jaks is the only notable exception and he's probably going to have the most pressure to show up and contribute out of all the other players on this line-up barring Merzlikins and Abols. Balinskis is a pretty major loss. And, honestly, I can't wait for our younglings (Fenenko, Hodass, etc.) to begin playing pro hockey. Otherwise we're stuck with the sotnieks and kuldas of this world. I'm sick of watching them use their wooden hands. I'm also low-key hoping for some of the rookie D-men on this roster (Bergmanis?) to turn heads.

So to conclude, our depth is better than ever, and this is a great chance to test that depth and to look at our young ones play. We are the 4th youngest and the 2nd largest team in the World Champs. Expect a lot of physical, gritty play. We have enough pure skill not to worry about relegation and enough grit and drive to steal some points off of the US in the opening game as well. So while that QF spot is not going to be easy to get at all, stranger things have happened.

With Blueger in, we might actually cause some trouble vs. the Czechs and the Swedes too.

And, obviously, having the arguably best goaltender in the tournament is a pretty damn good bonus as well.
 
Hard to disagree with any of the points.

Was Tralmaks even considered for this WC? If the Bruins lose tonight?
 
Well he never was a center, no doubt about that but neither is Indrasis and that was kind of the point. If he was as good as he says at "outrunning and outworking" guys that 2nd line center spot has been up for taking for years. And yet we will, most likely, have Smirnovs playing there.
That's the thing, I've watched plenty of interviews with experts, coaches of Latvian hockey over the last few years and when they talk about our centre situation, only Indrashis is mentioned as an emergency option, literally no one else from the wingers, Daugavinsh included. It seems to me that in Latvia (and also in Russia, now that I think about it) putting a good winger in centre just because he is a good winger simply isn't something anyone does.
The depth of the Latvian talent pool, particularly wingers, has increased immensely over the last decade. This year is going to prove that to the general audience in Latvia, who are used and almost fixated to a dozen or so last names as if no one else could fill their shoes in an instant. The expectations back home are very low for some odd reason, so there's not much pressure on this team at all.
I fully agree with this, I don't understand why people everywhere are saying that the roster is now somehow bad just because Darzinsh, Daugavinsh, Karsums and Meija retired from the team, two of which were barely making the team nowadays in the first place.

Latvia is in its stronger years talent pool-wise, not the other way around indeed. How many, 5 (?) years and more ago we would only dream of such winger and goalie depth.
 
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A couple of things.

The depth of the Latvian talent pool, particularly wingers, has increased immensely over the last decade. This year is going to prove that to the general audience in Latvia, who are used and almost fixated to a dozen or so last names as if no one else could fill their shoes in an instant. The expectations back home are very low for some odd reason, so there's not much pressure on this team at all.

I generally agree with you, but our performance in Olympics was terrible, no two ways about it and that sort of makes me cautious in my expectations. Yes, results were close Beijing, but the games were pretty hard to stomach, only handful of players were capable of generating some sort of offense outside powerplay. And now we see that three of them Darzins, Indrasis and Daugavins are not here anymore ( I am aware Daugavins didn't produce, but he at least was able have serious puck possession in o-zone), naturally it feels that our roster might be in the best place, no matter how big the addition of Balcers is.
 
I generally agree with you, but our performance in Olympics was terrible, no two ways about it and that sort of makes me cautious in my expectations. Yes, results were close Beijing, but the games were pretty hard to stomach, only handful of players were capable of generating some sort of offense outside powerplay. And now we see that three of them Darzins, Indrasis and Daugavins are not here anymore ( I am aware Daugavins didn't produce, but he at least was able have serious puck possession in o-zone), naturally it feels that our roster might be in the best place, no matter how big the addition of Balcers is.
I think the biggest reason for it is the D that can't move the puck to save their life and are basically useless in the O-zone. The issue isn't the forwards, especially the wingers like mentioned, the issue that there is never a coherent 5 man unit in the O-zone, hell, there is hardly ever a coherent 4 man unit. And getting to the O-zone in the first place is a struggle to begin with. Therefore 20 SOG average in the Olympics.

So I think Namejs was pretty accurate in both highlighting the strengths and the weaknesses. It's actually quite refreshing since I'm kinda used to him trying to explain how Ro. Bukarts or soon-to-be-retired Karsums are more or less as good as Nick Paul.

Having said that, we as humans just tend to misjudge sometimes how those correlate when it comes to teams we support. I think Latvian NT is in a pretty putrid state at the moment because the defense is truly close to the D1A level, I don't even think that's an exaggeration. And no matter how much the winger depth has improved (which was arguably Latvia's main strength all along) defense has never been this bad. It just hasn't.

You can talk all you want how bad 7th/8th Ds were but when Dinamo Riga was created the template was to bring in 1 guy (preferably a rightie) on D to help out the PP and that was that, otherwise it formed a decent KHL-level D core. Not to mention guys playing abroad: Kulda, Bartulis, Pujacs, etc. Now it's a joke.
 
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I think the biggest reason for it is the D that can't move the puck to save their life and are basically useless in the O-zone. The issue isn't the forwards, especially the wingers like mentioned, the issue that there is never a coherent 5 man unit in the O-zone, hell, there is hardly ever a coherent 4 man unit.
This is a good observation. We had this exact problem in early 2010's when we had our ''golden-ish generation" in WJC. All our talented forwards were left to create offense between them three, while our D was always cautiously guarding red line even on our PP's... :( Now with the same generation D's having to step up to fill senior NT's lineup, the result is the same.
 
Now with the same generation D's having to step up to fill senior NT's lineup, the result is the same.
And just so it happens, all Russia-centric hockey schools - Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan - were facing the same problem. The amount of Ds they produce with even a trace of offensive skill is laughable, it's definitely where Russian hockey school (and let's face it Latvia was part of it until recently, or maybe even still is) has been left playing catch up to modern hockey.
 
I think the biggest reason for it is the D that can't move the puck to save their life and are basically useless in the O-zone. The issue isn't the forwards, especially the wingers like mentioned, the issue that there is never a coherent 5 man unit in the O-zone, hell, there is hardly ever a coherent 4 man unit. And getting to the O-zone in the first place is a struggle to begin with. Therefore 20 SOG average in the Olympics.

So I think Namejs was pretty accurate in both highlighting the strengths and the weaknesses. It's actually quite refreshing since I'm kinda used to him trying to explain how Ro. Bukarts or soon-to-be-retired Karsums are more or less as good as Nick Paul.

Having said that, we as humans just tend to misjudge sometimes how those correlate when it comes to teams we support. I think Latvian NT is in a pretty putrid state at the moment because the defense is truly close to the D1A level, I don't even think that's an exaggeration. And no matter how much the winger depth has improved (which was arguably Latvia's main strength all along) defense has never been this bad. It just hasn't.

You can talk all you want how bad 7th/8th Ds were but when Dinamo Riga was created the template was to bring in 1 guy (preferably a rightie) on D to help out the PP and that was that, otherwise it formed a decent KHL-level D core. Not to mention guys playing abroad: Kulda, Bartulis, Pujacs, etc. Now it's a joke.
All 3 of Kulda, Bartulis and Pujacs were extremely overrated even at their peak. Pujacs was basically an above average Euro D-man with a single outlier of a season. His career avg. PPG rate was 0.25 in Russia/KHL. Same as Balinskis now. Jaks, Balinskis, Rubins is no worse of a trio.

I have no idea how Kulda and Bartulis ever made the NHL.

I completely disagree with you labeling the Latvian defense as being Div IA-tier, that's just some hot-take BS. Lithuania just finished 3rd in Div IA. Seriously, it makes 0 sense.

Us lacking elite puck-moving D-men is what makes us a 2nd tier nation incapable of pulling upsets outside of the group stage. If we had a Dahlin and a Seth Jones, this would be a different group altogether. But cut the Div IA BS. They're all playing in Czechia/SHL/NL/AHL/NCAA. Div IA sides can only dream of that.

And it's worth noting that an increasing amount of our young D-men are now going through CHL/NCAA/Switzerland and some of them are looking very promising. Bringing up the Russian school just means you're old.
 
And just so it happens, all Russia-centric hockey schools - Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan - were facing the same problem. The amount of Ds they produce with even a trace of offensive skill is laughable, it's definitely where Russian hockey school (and let's face it Latvia was part of it until recently, or maybe even still is) has been left playing catch up to modern hockey.
That's like 10x better than our traditional problem which is that all of our defensemen are the forwards who were too small to play forward and just play forward from the blue line.
 
All 3 of Kulda, Bartulis and Pujacs were extremely overrated even at their peak. Pujacs was basically an above average Euro D-man with a single outlier of a season. His career avg. PPG rate was 0.25 in Russia/KHL. Same as Balinskis now. Jaks, Balinskis, Rubins is no worse of a trio.

I have no idea how Kulda and Bartulis ever made the NHL.

I completely disagree with you labeling the Latvian defense as being Div IA-tier, that's just some hot-take BS. Lithuania just finished 3rd in Div IA. Seriously, it makes 0 sense.

Us lacking elite puck-moving D-men is what makes us a 2nd tier nation incapable of pulling upsets outside of the group stage. If we had a Dahlin and a Seth Jones, this would be a different group altogether. But cut the Div IA BS. They're all playing in Czechia/SHL/NL/AHL/NCAA. Div IA sides can only dream of that.

And it's worth noting that an increasing amount of our young D-men are now going through CHL/NCAA/Switzerland and some of them are looking very promising. Bringing up the Russian school just means you're old.
None of them were especially skilled offensively either, Kulda is the closest to what you could call a two-way defenseman, but it didn't mean they were bad and in their case, PPG is irrelevant. If Avangard signs you to fill the import slot on a team that makes the Cup finals you are probably doing something right. Sure they will have someone else to score points but in no way does make you bad.

Bartulis was just in a right place at the right time but Kulda had kinda obvious talent, he would have made it full time had he been a tiny bit quicker. Solid guy, can play both ways, what's not to like.

Regarding D1A I obviously meant the old one, with Kazakhstan and Belarus and stuff, not this identity crisis one which is some kind of D1B in disguise. In 2019, this Latvian defense would have ranked right in the middle of D1A, slightly worse than Belarus and Kazakhstan, slightly better than Hungary and Slovenia. Slovenians had 3 guys from the Czech league, doesn't that sound familiar.

Well, full disclosure, I'm 29. I guess that makes me old enough to realize kids go to the CHL/NCAA, etc. when they are 17 or older. If the coach told you your job is to "guard the redline", like Ozo said, for like 12 years before moving there, it's kinda too late to change it. And I might be old but if you think guys on the current Latvian NT didn't attend practices ran in Russian you are detached from reality. Maybe the ones on U18 NT haven't. Maybe.

Maybe when they fill the senior NT ranks in 5-10 years the situation is going to change. Not unlikely. We have to look at the one at hand though.
 
A couple of things.

The depth of the Latvian talent pool, particularly wingers, has increased immensely over the last decade. This year is going to prove that to the general audience in Latvia, who are used and almost fixated to a dozen or so last names as if no one else could fill their shoes in an instant. The expectations back home are very low for some odd reason, so there's not much pressure on this team at all.

Right now, most of the leading Latvian wingers over the age of 30 are soft/skilled types. They are used to having sheltered top 6 roles in Dinamo Riga or used to cruising in some of the middling Euro leagues in Czechia or elsewhere. Roberts Bukarts, Indrasis, Darzins all fit this mold perfectly. Daugavins used to be an energy guy, I remember watching him play every single game for the Sens. He was a completely different kind of a player back then. Over the last few years he has lost that edge, he has lost his speed and slowly transitioned into being a somewhat lazy/slow soft/skilled guy himself. That and him being an antivaxx nutjob has sort of changed his role with the national team. So him retiring is not really a major loss. Sure, he would still be an asset, particularly on the PP, but the Latvian national team has an established identity and a system in place that has overgrown any single coach or star player. That gritty, disciplined, all-out team effort has become a team philosophy by now. We have become a less skilled Finland. Does Daugavins or Indrasis fit this philosophy? I don't think so.

Losing a couple of soft wingers like that has not put a dent in our roster. Even more than that, we could afford to drop a couple more wingers and add guys like Tralmaks, Egle or Zabusovs without losing any skill or maybe even improving a little bit. And, frankly, I think it's enough with Ro. Bukarts roleplaying Ovi, we don't need other players not forechecking and not throwing their bodies around.

Despite increased depth, the current line-up is obviously not without its major shortcomings. Our lack of decent centermen is a massive headache. We have a very solid 1C in Abols, a good shutdown 3C/4C in Batna who has got great size by the way. But that 2C and 3C role is pretty much filled up by third tier players in Smirnovs and Dzerins. Now, Smirnovs can actually play in a sheltered role also at this level. He's going to get some points against the likes of GB, Austria or Norway. He can get some O zone starts, some PP time and be good enough for us. At times. Dzerins is just all-around below average. Without 2 scoring lines, we're not going to be much of a threat against Finland, Sweden or Czechia. We are sorely missing a skilled C like Blueger in that 2C role. (Go Rangers?)

If Blueger AND Girgensons were here, this would be a very competitive lineup. I mean, you can't even compare Smirnovs with Blueger. It's ridiculous.

We are also sorely lacking puck-moving defencemen who can actually contribute offensively. Jaks is the only notable exception and he's probably going to have the most pressure to show up and contribute out of all the other players on this line-up barring Merzlikins and Abols. Balinskis is a pretty major loss. And, honestly, I can't wait for our younglings (Fenenko, Hodass, etc.) to begin playing pro hockey. Otherwise we're stuck with the sotnieks and kuldas of this world. I'm sick of watching them use their wooden hands. I'm also low-key hoping for some of the rookie D-men on this roster (Bergmanis?) to turn heads.

So to conclude, our depth is better than ever, and this is a great chance to test that depth and to look at our young ones play. We are the 4th youngest and the 2nd largest team in the World Champs. Expect a lot of physical, gritty play. We have enough pure skill not to worry about relegation and enough grit and drive to steal some points off of the US in the opening game as well. So while that QF spot is not going to be easy to get at all, stranger things have happened.

With Blueger in, we might actually cause some trouble vs. the Czechs and the Swedes too.

And, obviously, having the arguably best goaltender in the tournament is a pretty damn good bonus as well.
Nice having you back, where did u go? Your account seemed deleted.

Correct me if im wrong, but is not Blueger used as a grinder in NHL? Could be hard to out of sudden being a guy who is playing topline and producing pojnts when he is used as a grinder 24 h in NHL.

And dont count on Sweden being strong this tournament. We have horrible forwards, goalies and coaches.
 
None of them were especially skilled offensively either, Kulda is the closest to what you could call a two-way defenseman, but it didn't mean they were bad and in their case, PPG is irrelevant. If Avangard signs you to fill the import slot on a team that makes the Cup finals you are probably doing something right. Sure they will have someone else to score points but in no way does make you bad.

Bartulis was just in a right place at the right time but Kulda had kinda obvious talent, he would have made it full time had he been a tiny bit quicker. Solid guy, can play both ways, what's not to like.

Regarding D1A I obviously meant the old one, with Kazakhstan and Belarus and stuff, not this identity crisis one which is some kind of D1B in disguise. In 2019, this Latvian defense would have ranked right in the middle of D1A, slightly worse than Belarus and Kazakhstan, slightly better than Hungary and Slovenia. Slovenians had 3 guys from the Czech league, doesn't that sound familiar.

Well, full disclosure, I'm 29. I guess that makes me old enough to realize kids go to the CHL/NCAA, etc. when they are 17 or older. If the coach told you your job is to "guard the redline", like Ozo said, for like 12 years before moving there, it's kinda too late to change it. And I might be old but if you think guys on the current Latvian NT didn't attend practices ran in Russian you are detached from reality. Maybe the ones on U18 NT haven't. Maybe.

Maybe when they fill the senior NT ranks in 5-10 years the situation is going to change. Not unlikely. We have to look at the one at hand though.
Sorry, but there's no merit to what you're saying.

We lack elite puck-moving defencemen. We aren't lacking defencemen. Our depth has also increased at D.

I'm not going to waste my time comparing all the Div IA players side by side with the Latvian ones, the point you're trying to make is just absurd. But let's take a look at Slovenia since they steamrolled their opposition in Div IA.

Their leading D included Pretnar, Podlipnik (both 2nd pairing) and Robar (1st).

Pretnar has mostly played in Poland and Slovakia, showing worse offensive production than Sevcenko, Jass or Salija, neither of whom where even invited to the Latvian training camp and would likely play on our C team.


Ditto for Podlipnik except he's even worse and playing in France/Del2. Previously Romania and Cze2.

Robar is 39 and missed an entire season recently. He's recorded 9 points and 1 goal in his last 61 outings in ICEHL and looks mostly done as a pro player. He played 20 minutes a game with Slovenia.

The only Slovenian D-man making the Latvian squad would be Blaz and he's spent a bunch of seasons in Cze Extraliga with the avg PPG being 0.33, which is roughly Mamcics level. Worse than Jaks or Balinskis, likely 3rd pairing D.

That's the leading D-man of the leading Div IA side. Very little overlap there.
 
Nice having you back, where did u go? Your account seemed deleted.

Correct me if im wrong, but is not Blueger used as a grinder in NHL? Could be hard to out of sudden being a guy who is playing topline and producing pojnts when he is used as a grinder 24 h in NHL.

And dont count on Sweden being strong this tournament. We have horrible forwards, goalies and coaches.
Well, thanks, it's nice to be back. I got banned by some nerd during the Olympics, I have no idea why, got no memo or explanation.

Blueger is not your typical grinder. He's not really a grinder at all. He just works his ass off defensively, but his natural playing style is more of a playmaker. He's got a very soft touch, nice hands, great hockey IQ. He's no Girgensons. Teddy would fit right in that 1C/2C role.
 
Sorry, but there's no merit to what you're saying.

We lack elite puck-moving defencemen. We aren't lacking defencemen. Our depth has also increased at D.

I'm not going to waste my time comparing all the Div IA players side by side with the Latvian ones, the point you're trying to make is just absurd. But let's take a look at Slovenia since they steamrolled their opposition in Div IA.

Their leading D included Pretnar, Podlipnik (both 2nd pairing) and Robar (1st).

Pretnar has mostly played in Poland and Slovakia, showing worse offensive production than Sevcenko, Jass or Salija, neither of whom where even invited to the Latvian training camp and would likely play on our C team.


Ditto for Podlipnik except he's even worse and playing in France/Del2. Previously Romania and Cze2.

Robar is 39 and missed an entire season recently. He's recorded 9 points and 1 goal in his last 61 outings in ICEHL and looks mostly done as a pro player. He played 20 minutes a game with Slovenia.

The only Slovenian D-man making the Latvian squad would be Blaz and he's spent a bunch of seasons in Cze Extraliga with the avg PPG being 0.33, which is roughly Mamcics level. Worse than Jaks or Balinskis, likely 3rd pairing D.

That's the leading D-man of the leading Div IA side. Very little overlap there.
Yes because I totally said "this Latvian defense is worse than Slovenia 2022" :facepalm: Why do you waste your time like that.. Winning arguments by insisting on ignoring what the other person is actually saying. Pro gamer move.

Slovenia finished 4th in the last actual competitive D1A. Which I was talking about, no idea why do I have to repeat it so many times. And that's with 3 pretty solid Czech league Ds as their D core (Gregorc, Kovacevic, Podlipnik) and freaking Anze Kopitar on their roster but that's beside the point. The usual elevator nations, your Austrias, Kazkhstans, Belarus, etc. can bring defense roughly comparable to what Latvia has this year. You can try to spin it any way you want it doesn't change the fact.

Also, since I can feel it coming already, I repeat, I talked about Latvian D core this year. For the sake of the argument, you can forget Balinskis exists. He's not here.
 
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Yes because I totally said "this Latvian defense is worse than Slovenia 2022" :facepalm: Why do you waste your time like that.. Winning arguments by insisting on ignoring what the other person is actually saying. Pro gamer move.

Slovenia finished 4th in the last actual competitive D1A. Which I was talking about, no idea why do I have to repeat it so many times. And that's with 3 pretty solid Czech league Ds as their D core (Gregorc, Kovacevic, Podlipnik) and freaking Anze Kopitar on their roster but that's beside the point. The usual elevator nations, your Austrias, Kazkhstans, Belarus, etc. can bring defense roughly comparable to what Latvia has this year. You can try to spin it any way you want it doesn't change the fact.
The comparison with Div IA is just flat out wrong and misleading.

Div IA means the average of Austria/Slovenia/Hungary/Korea/Romania. If you meant just the elevator nations of Kazakhstan and Austria, that's a completely different point you're making.

And, yes, the Latvian D probably ranks 11th/12th in the World Champs with considerable overlap also with France/Austria. If you zoom in on France and guys like Crinon and Guebey, you can't really make the point they're better than us. It's just not the case.

And that was my entire point originally. Our D is not great, it's lagging behind the rest of the team. We might rank up to 8th offensively depending on the year and can be in the top 3 in terms of goaltending, but in terms of D we are just 11th/12th and even with all our best D-men we are not close to cracking the top 9.

That still doesn't make it a Div IA-tier department.
 
The comparison with Div IA is just flat out wrong and misleading.

Div IA means the average of Austria/Slovenia/Hungary/Korea/Romania. If you meant just the elevator nations of Kazakhstan and Austria, that's a completely different point you're making.

And, yes, the Latvian D probably ranks 11th/12th in the World Champs with considerable overlap also with France/Austria. If you zoom in on France and guys like Crinon and Guebey, you can't really make the point they're better than us. It's just not the case.

And that was my entire point originally. Our D is not great, it's lagging behind the rest of the team. We might rank up to 8th offensively depending on the year and can be in the top 3 in terms of goaltending, but in terms of D we are just 11th/12th and even with all our best D-men we are not close to cracking the top 9.

That still doesn't make it a Div IA-tier department.
Would you say the latvian d is better than slovakian d in this tournament?

Rosandic Ceresnak
Janosik Nemec
Ivan Gachulinec
Bucko Grman
 
The comparison with Div IA is just flat out wrong and misleading.

Div IA means the average of Austria/Slovenia/Hungary/Korea/Romania. If you meant just the elevator nations of Kazakhstan and Austria, that's a completely different point you're making.

And, yes, the Latvian D probably ranks 11th/12th in the World Champs with considerable overlap also with France/Austria. If you zoom in on France and guys like Crinon and Guebey, you can't really make the point they're better than us. It's just not the case.

And that was my entire point originally. Our D is not great, it's lagging behind the rest of the team. We might rank up to 8th offensively depending on the year and can be in the top 3 in terms of goaltending, but in terms of D we are just 11th/12th and even with all our best D-men we are not close to cracking the top 9.

That still doesn't make it a Div IA-tier department.
1) I wasn't talking about your D, I was talking about your D in this WC.
2) Nice of you to add Romania who played in D1A once (in D2A twice though) and never [in the near future] will again as an average team there...
3) You can pinpoint any guy to make any argument. Compare Latvian Ds to Crinon - they are great, to Bailen - terrible. It's not how it works. Would these D, as a group, give Latvia an edge over D1A elevator teams? Not really. They are better than some, worse than others.

And on the back of Slovakia winning Olympic bronze, Lithuania being 3rd in D1A, Romania playing there at all or any number of other examples, you should realize pinpointing we are 11th/12th actually means nothing. GB is playing in their 3rd WC straight for god's sake. Those differences are marginal, it's about belonging to a certain tier. And at the moment you guys belong to a tier where your best D is a C-grade EU pro. And missing him is actually a big deal because he is still significantly ahead of most. Which tells a lot about the group I was actually talking about.
 
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