Player Discussion Lane Hutson Part 2

[Goalfield13]

Luckily, the Habs have a deep defense core and a large number of bigger, smooth skating defenseman.. if it's an issue, they'll play him situationally.

The problem is, he can only have 1 D partner, and that partner is going to have to babysit him physically. that's a lot to ask, and it is a big weakness that will be very easy to exploit.

 

[WeThreeKings]

The problem is, he can only have 1 D partner, and that partner is going to have to babysit him physically. that's a lot to ask, and it is a big weakness that will be very easy to exploit.

Yet it hasn't happened yet and it may not happen.. how about we address it when it does happen instead of hypothetically conjuring up this negative situation?

They don't need to put Hutson out in the 3rd period of a game they are leading, and they can put him out in o zone starts only.

 

[EXPOS123]

The issue I have here is that all of a sudden, people are concerned. They weren't when he was drafted. They weren't when he had a historic freshman year in the NCAA. But now, many are worried.



They have a development department now. And no one is out here saying Hutson is flawless. Not a single person said he has nothing to work on.



I don't recall people coming out of the woodwork saying Evans can be a 2C and Mete a Top-4 D the way people have come out of nowhere being concerned the way they do Hutson, when they weren't before.



I don't know where you heard Bitten was the "steal of the draft." I feel like you're just making these things up only to have an argument to make.

Sorry but you are the one who is conveniently forgetting things that were said.
Please go review all the old threads on the players I mentioned - I can assure you it was all said by quite a few posters.

If you want a more recent example,go see what was said about Heinmann at the beginning of the season

There were comments that he should have made the team and now 8 months later people are saying he’s been a disappointment and may never make it

My point stands - if Hutson’s prospect status has slowly dipped in some people’s eyes it’s because there is still a physical hurdle which he still needs to overcome and people have doubts

 

[Goalfield13]

Yet it hasn't happened yet and it may not happen.. how about we address it when it does happen instead of hypothetically conjuring up this negative situation?

They don't need to put Hutson out in the 3rd period of a game they are leading, and they can put him out in o zone starts only.

It's a message board. We talk about hypotheticals all the time. Hockey's "Future." The fact is, the dude is sub 160 and people are talking about him playing in Laval immediately. That is happening right now. It's nuts.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Sorry but you are the one who is conveniently forgetting things that were said.
Please go review all the old threads on the players I mentioned - I can assure you it was all said by quite a few posters.

If you want a more recent example,go see what was said about Heinmann at the beginning of the season

There were comments that he should have made the team and now 8 months later people are saying he’s been a disappointment and may never make it

My point stands - if Hutson’s prospect status has slowly dipped in some people’s eyes it’s because there is still a physical hurdle which he still needs to overcome and people have doubts

But Adam's point is what has changed?

He got taller, he got a little thicker.. he played well against Men in the worlds last year. This year in the WJC he played massive minutes and gave up his offensive play to a degree to be a shut down defender and won gold as the USAs go to defenseman.

He continues to lead BU from the back end and they are one of the highest rated in the league.

It's not like he has come into the AHL and struggled yet, so there's no reason to be more concerned now than before, it's just an overcorrection. It's like when Slaf started working out, the negativity had to go somewhere.

 

[OldCraig71]

And we don't see questionable comments coming from you either. (not that we would)
I was going to use another word but I'm trying to clean up my on-line image.

Did you want to say negative? I don't consider myself to be negative but hardcore realistic about things, the years and situations that life has thrown at me have molded me that way. I wish I were an eternal optimist but that just isn't me.

I am not an expert at assessing young players as some are here, I don't follow them in junior leagues or college hockey so I rarely post about their potential in the NHL. I would rather wait and see what they show us at the NHL level. Jordan Harris has 115 games under his belt at the NHL level and still has time to develop, but he might get traded to make room for others on the way. A few years ago there was worry here that he might go to free agency and we would miss out on a potential top 4 defenceman but he hasn't shown more than a bottom-pairing player in the NHL.

Hutson might come here and be a star which would be great for the Habs but I wouldn't point fingers at those concerned by his lack of size and how that will affect his ability to defend at the NHL level. Time will tell how it all plays out, lets wait and see.

 

[WeThreeKings]

It's a message board. We talk about hypotheticals all the time. Hockey's "Future." The fact is, the dude is sub 160 and people are talking about him playing in Laval immediately. That is happening right now. It's nuts.

He's going to be there, it's not a hypothetical. The Canadiens confirmed he is coming over to play. There's nothing more for him to do in the NCAA level, and if he struggles in the AHL due to his size and frame then that is a good thing for him to go into Summer with.

Just because the organization sees it differently than you doesn't make you right or them wrong, or vice versa. But going back to the NCAA and putting up another 50 pt season against that competition isn't going to help. He plays against seniors in University at their talent level, he needs to play against more talented big men and see how to scale up.

 

[Goalfield13]

But Adam's point is what has changed?

He got taller, he got a little thicker.. he played well against Men in the worlds last year. This year in the WJC he played massive minutes and gave up his offensive play to a degree to be a shut down defender and won gold as the USAs go to defenseman.

He continues to lead BU from the back end and they are one of the highest rated in the league.

It's not like he has come into the AHL and struggled yet, so there's no reason to be more concerned now than before, it's just an overcorrection. It's like when Slaf started working out, the negativity had to go somewhere.

What has changed for me is the talk of him going to the AHL/NHL NOW. I was under the impression when he was drafted that he would spend more than 2 years in the NCAA to mature physically. People are rightfully concerned. He's underweight and needs to work on his skating. I like the prospect and don't want him to get destroyed because he was rushed.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Again with the Caufield comparison. One is a winger and the other is a D. Even as a winger with much less responsibility, Caufield still needs to be insulated to be effective.

The point still stands. The position doesn't matter. The same things being said about Hutson were said about Caufield. Too small and what he does won't work in the playoffs.

Until Caufield played in the playoffs and was able to do what he always does. So before we write off Hutson as a regular season guy and not a playoff performer, let's wait and see first.

Anyways, the main issue with Hutson right now is his weight. sub 160 isn't going to cut it even in the AHL right now. He needs to gain mass. If he does, I am fine with him. The problem is people wanting him to play in the AHL/NHL next year at that weight.

Not disagreeing that he needs to add weight. But it's not the end of the world if he starts at what he's listed as (5'10" and 161 lbs). On Grant McCagg's podcast, he said he's 5'10" and his weight fluctuates around the 163 lbs mark. He wouldn't be the first defenseman to start his career at that size.

- Spurgeon is 5'9" and 166 lbs at 34 years old. He's been in the league for 14 years and is a captain.
- Sam Girard is currently 5"10" and 170 lbs now. When he was drafted, he was listed at 5'9" and 160 lbs. He went back to junior for one year and then started his pro career right way after.

Hutson can work on getting stronger and gaining that weight in the NHL/AHL where a lot of other smaller sized D did, as well. But let's not pretend that he will somehow get to 180-185 lbs. You never know, but he will probably max out at around 170-175.

 

[Goalfield13]

He's going to be there, it's not a hypothetical. The Canadiens confirmed he is coming over to play. There's nothing more for him to do in the NCAA level, and if he struggles in the AHL due to his size and frame then that is a good thing for him to go into Summer with.

Just because the organization sees it differently than you doesn't make you right or them wrong, or vice versa. But going back to the NCAA and putting up another 50 pt season against that competition isn't going to help. He plays against seniors in University at their talent level, he needs to play against more talented big men and see how to scale up.

It feels like the organization is forced to go this route because the player is the one being impatient, and they don't want to lose him like Fox.

Him staying in the NCAA is going to give him time to work on other things than offense. Players in junior do this all the time. He can work on getting bigger and improving his skating. Why are we rushing him?

 

[EXPOS123]

But Adam's point is what has changed?

He got taller, he got a little thicker.. he played well against Men in the worlds last year. This year in the WJC he played massive minutes and gave up his offensive play to a degree to be a shut down defender and won gold as the USAs go to defenseman.

He continues to lead BU from the back end and they are one of the highest rated in the league.

It's not like he has come into the AHL and struggled yet, so there's no reason to be more concerned now than before, it's just an overcorrection. It's like when Slaf started working out, the negativity had to go somewhere.

I am with you - I want to be wrong but a woeful history of prospect busts and failures has made me cynical

It will be fascinating to see how it plays out

 

[Redux91]

So all the big brains here left the Slaf thread and are trying to establish base in here and the RB thread

Nice very subtle

Interesting isn't it

 

[WeThreeKings]

It feels like the organization is forced to go this route because the player is the one being impatient, and they don't want to lose him like Fox.

Him staying in the NCAA is going to give him time to work on other things than offense. Players in junior do this all the time. He can work on getting bigger and improving his skating. Why are we rushing him?

I just think that they think he is ready for the next step. He can also work on things in the AHL as well. Why is he being rushed? People said the same thing about Slaf being rushed and it turned out fine.

I get it, we are scarred from Bergevin, but this new staff is all about development in season.. we aren't signing Hutson to play him 3rd pair minutes, 2nd pair PK, no PP time on the big team and giving him no resources to develop.

I am with you - I want to be wrong but a woeful history of prospect busts and failures has made me cynical

It will be fascinating to see how it plays out

At least you're admitting that bias is coming into play.

 

[Goalfield13]

The point still stands. The position doesn't matter. The same things being said about Hutson were said about Caufield. Too small and what he does won't work in the playoffs.

Until Caufield played in the playoffs and was able to do what he always does. So before we write off Hutson as a regular season guy and not a playoff performer, let's wait and see first.



Not disagreeing that he needs to add weight. But it's not the end of the world if he starts at what he's listed as (5'10" and 161 lbs). On Grant McCagg's podcast, he said he's 5'10" and his weight fluctuates around the 163 lbs mark. He wouldn't be the first defenseman to start his career at that size.

- Spurgeon is 5'9" and 166 lbs at 34 years old. He's been in the league for 14 years and is a captain.
- Sam Girard is currently 5"10" and 170 lbs now. When he was drafted, he was listed at 5'9" and 160 lbs. He went back to junior for one year and then started his pro career right way after.

Hutson can work on getting stronger and gaining that weight in the NHL/AHL where a lot of other smaller sized D did, as well. But let's not pretend that he will somehow get to 180-185 lbs. You never know, but he will probably max out at around 170-175.

Position absolutely matters. Caufield isn't responsible for taking a hit and making a play when the opposition dumps it in. He's not responsible for clearning the crease or stopping someone from crashing the net on the rush. How can you say position doesn't matter!! C'mon, man!

In regards to Spurgeon, I already replied to that and no one responded. the dude played 60ish games nearly every season. I wonder why he missed so much time? Also, how many playoff games did he play in those 14 years. Go look it up. The team made it out of the first round twice while he was there. Awesome.

 

[Goalfield13]

I just think that they think he is ready for the next step. He can also work on things in the AHL as well. Why is he being rushed? People said the same thing about Slaf being rushed and it turned out fine.

I get it, we are scarred from Bergevin, but this new staff is all about development in season.. we aren't signing Hutson to play him 3rd pair minutes, 2nd pair PK, no PP time on the big team and giving him no resources to develop.



At least you're admitting that bias is coming into play.

I am not scared about anything other than Hutson's situation. I am not comparing it to anything other than what I see. He is too small right now.

You guys are building all these strawmans saying people were wrong about so-and-so and because of that will be wrong here. I was a proponent of Slaf since the beginning. You know who I also supported? Roy, who everyone stated needed time to work on his skating before making the leap, and he did. I also supported Caufield, because he has elite shooting, hockey IQ and nearly elite playmaking ability, but also acknowledged that he would have to be insulated to be affective, which is all true. Hutson has more to work on and yet people are fine and dandy with him just taking a leap like this.

I like Hutson as a player. I do. I just think we are rushing and fear he is going to get hurt. The issue is these NCAA players are entitled and force teams to rush things. We wouldn't be having this convo is he was in the CHL and you know it.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I am not scared about anything other than Hutson's situation. I am not comparing it to anything other than what I see. He is too small right now.

You guys are building all these strawmans saying people were wrong about so-and-so and because of that will be wrong here. I was a proponent of Slaf since the beginning. You know who I also supported? Roy, who everyone stated needed time to work on his skating before making the leap, and he did. I also supported Caufield, because he has elite shooting, hockey IQ and nearly elite playmaking ability, but also acknowledged that he would have to be insulated to be affective, which is all true. Hutson has more to work on and yet people are fine and dandy with him just taking a leap like this.

I like Hutson as a player. I do. I just think we are rushing and fear he is going to get hurt. The issue is these NCAA players are entitled and force teams to rush things. We wouldn't be having this convo is he was in the CHL and you know it.

If he was in the CHL, he'd be in the AHL next year because he'd have to be signed.

 

[Goalfield13]

If he was in the CHL, he'd be in the AHL next year because he'd have to be signed.

We see players playing an extra year in the CHL all the time.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Position absolutely matters. Caufield isn't responsible for taking a hit and making a play when the opposition dumps it in. He's not responsible for clearning the crease or stopping someone from crashing the net on the rush. How can you say position doesn't matter!! C'mon, man!

Did people say you can't win with players Cole's size? Did people say he wouldn't be able to do what he does when it matters most? The answer is yes. Then he went and showed that the answer is no.

So you can say Hutson won't have an impact in the playoffs. But like Cole, he could very well give everyone the answer is a no.

In regards to Spurgeon, I already replied to that and no one responded. the dude played 60ish games nearly every season. I wonder why he missed so much time? Also, how many playoff games did he play in those 14 years. Go look it up. The team made it out of the first round twice while he was there. Awesome.

2013-14: missed 15 games
2014-15: missed 16 games
2015-16: missed 5 games
2017-18: missed 6 games
2018-19: missed 21 games
2019-20: missed 7 games
2020-21: missed 2 games
2021-22: missed 17 games
2022-23: missed 3 games
2023-24: on LTIR (but he's also 34 years old)

Early in his career, I don't know if it was injuries or maybe a healthy scratch. It looks to me, thhat in 2018-19 and 2021-22, he missed a lot of games. Every other year, he missed a normal amount of games that almost every NHL'er misses.

 

[WeThreeKings]

We see players playing an extra year in the CHL all the time.

I'd be interested in the names of those who played overage in the CHL who were a top prospect. You have an undrafted free agent like Arber Xhekaj and who?

 

[Goalfield13]

I'd be interested in the names of those who played overage in the CHL who were a top prospect. You have an undrafted free agent like Arber Xhekaj and who?

Hard to find examples like this one because few players are labelled as "top prospects" when they are 5'9 160 lbs D.

 

[Canadiens98]

Position absolutely matters. Caufield isn't responsible for taking a hit and making a play when the opposition dumps it in. He's not responsible for clearning the crease or stopping someone from crashing the net on the rush. How can you say position doesn't matter!! C'mon, man!

In regards to Spurgeon, I already replied to that and no one responded. the dude played 60ish games nearly every season. I wonder why he missed so much time? Also, how many playoff games did he play in those 14 years. Go look it up. The team made it out of the first round twice while he was there. Awesome.

I just want to address the games where he played 60 or fewer games and just for the record, he hasn't missed an abnormal amount of games compared to the huge Dmen we had on the roster during the playoff run (Check Edmundson and Chiarot's history)


In 2010/11 even though he spent the majority of his time in the NHL (53 games), he also spent time in the minors (23 in the A) for a cumulative 76 games that season.

In 12/13 there was the lockout and he played 39 of the 48 games (Roughly a 66 game pace)

In 2020/21 there was a late start because of Covid, he played 54 of the 56 games (On pace to play 79 games)


This season is his first where he'll play fewer than 75% of the regular season at the age of 34.

 

[Goalfield13]

I just want to address the games where he played 60 or fewer games and just for the record, he hasn't missed an abnormal amount of games compared to the huge Dmen we had on the roster during the playoff run (Check Edmundson and Chiarot's history)


In 2010/11 even though he spent the majority of his time in the NHL (53 games), he also spent time in the minors (23 in the A) for a cumulative 76 games that season.

In 12/13 there was the lockout and he played 39 of the 48 games (Roughly a 66 game pace)

In 2020/21 there was a late start because of Covid, he played 54 of the 56 games (On pace to play 79 games)


This season is his first where he'll play fewer than 75% of the regular season at the age of 34.

What about the 13/14, 14/15, 17/18, 19/20 and 21/22 seasons? LOL. The dude hit 82 games ONCE.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Hard to find examples like this one because few players are labelled as "top prospects" when they are 5'9 160 lbs D.

So it doesn't really happen. I get you are concerned but he's coming over and time will tell if it is the wrong move.

 

[Goalfield13]

So it doesn't really happen. I get you are concerned but he's coming over and time will tell if it is the wrong move.

Until then, I will voice my displeasure with the decision just like you can voice your optimism. If it works out, we can rejoice together.

 

[Canadiens98]

What about the 13/14, 14/15, 17/18, 19/20 and 21/22 seasons? LOL

He played at least 75% of the regular season in all those years

Edit* He actually played 74.4% in 2017/18 so I'm sorry.