Player Discussion Lane Hutson Part 2

[Supersonic]

So all the big brains here left the Slaf thread and are trying to establish base in here and the RB thread

Nice very subtle

 

[HomaridII]

Thx............thought I may have missed something......
I wonder if the kid would benefit from the AHL for a few months, and then come up after Christmas?
Sure looks like Mailloux makes the jump in October!! Worked for him...

He will go to the AHL to start the season IMO. While he has played against big tough teams (North Dakota, Providence, Vermont - all average size 6-1 or over and average weight 190 or over), he will need to adjust to playing against men.

 

[Rapala]

I haven't followed Hutson that much outside of the World juniors and a few games of college hockey this season and I am interested in seeing what he looks like against AHL and NHL competition.

And we don't see questionable comments coming from you either. (not that we would)
I was going to use another word but I'm trying to clean up my on-line image.

 

[Tyson]

And we don't see questionable comments coming from you either. (not that we would)
I was going to use another word but I'm trying to clean up my on-line image.

What's a questionable comments? To discuss his size limitations? I hope he pans out in a huge way but all of a sudden people are angry that some are trying to have that discussion. I see some folks concerned about his backwards skating...I am not an expert so I assume this may or may not be an issue. Some question the fact that after D+2 he is still barely 160 pounds.
This kid is 20 pounds lighter than Jordan Harris and from what I have read he isn't remotely as good of a skater as Harris. He has work to do but until I see him proving himself at the pro level I will have reservations.

 

[jfm133]

No group thinking for me, I am doubtful since the beginning about Hutson, and the leaugue as a whole was doubtful, that's why he was picked at #62. The main thing for me is how can he transfer his play from the NCAA on a stacked team to the NHL. People too often neglect this aspect, the best recent example is Struble, many were surprised by how fast he made it, but he was ready from day one with Laval last year. He was a plug and play player because his strenght were well suited to be a defense first D in the NHL. He is very strong, good speed and mobility, and he minimizes risk taking. Not hard to understand why he made it quickly in the big team lineup and he showed good decision making avoiding risk, while still being effective with his first pass.

Hutson is the opposite of Struble, he is small and weak physically, not fast. With him, it's all about vision and IQ, and being elusive with the puck. That works at the NCAA or junior level, but he won't be able to make it work at the NHL level because players are generally bigger and faster. So he will be big liability on defense and his offensive skills won't work because he will face much better opponents.

I was watching the Habs against Carolina last week. The Canes are big and with an agressive forecheck, and strong cycling in the offensive zone. I tried to imagine how Hutson would be able to face that. Forget the pairing with a bigger partner. Against a team like Carolina, you need two Ds that can help stopping them.

Also, comparison with Caufield is worth nothing because a winger in not exposed like a D to the physical play. Caufield is a talented winger, a sniper with good speed and a good playmaker too. I like him, but as soon he is along the board fighting for the puck, you know the odds are high that the opposing team will win the battle. But Caufield can compensate that glaring weakness with the rest of his play. Hutson is slower, smaller, and as a D he won't be able to hide. Opponents will go on his side as much as possible. He will be a target.

I still think that his only path forward is to play one more year in the NCAA because the AHL is a very physical league, not as fast as the NHL, but more physical with more dirty hits on talented players. Look at Sean Farrell this year with Laval. The guy is clearly offensivly talented, but he is small and relatively weak, and like Hutson he is not a great skater. It's all about IQ and skills. Also, he missed 20 games, and he is almost more than two years older than Hutson. I doubt Farrell will ever establish himself with the Habs.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I disagree and the evidence is in where they were drafted and where they were ranked even before they were drafted. Size is also far more important on D than it is on the wing.

Again, nobody is saying that the chances of Caufield and Hutson making the nhl are exactly the same. The comparison is that both were considered a long shot to become good nhlers due to their size. Maybe Hutson is even more of a long shot, but both were long shots.

Debrincat went in the 2nd round despite putting ridiculous numbers in the ohl. His success in the NHL is a big reason why Caufield didn't go lower than 15th.

There is a reason that there is a long list of tiny forwards to have been successful in the NHL and the list of Dmen with Hutson's height/weight metrics is virtually non existent. He is 5'9" and just over 160 lbs and is considerably skinnier and weaker than Caufield.

In his d+2 season, Caufield was listed at 5'7 165 lbs on the Badger's website. There is absolutely not a long list of forwards around that size in the nhl. In fact, there was nobody. Debrincat was the same height, but he was considerably heavier (180lbs).

People keep comparing Hutson to Caufield. One is a winger and the other a D. One has few defensive responsibilities (and still needs to be insulated) while the other has all the responsibilities. Small wingers are fine. Small Cs and Ds are a different story.

Also, someone mentioned Spurgeon. That's a good comparison. I just took a look at his games played, and he typically played 60ish games each season. Gee, I wonder why.

Hutson won't be a successful nhl player due to his defense, it will be due to his offense. If he's bad defensively but can score 60 pts, that's still a good defenseman.

 

[jfm133]

Caufield was drafted #15 and Hutson #62. Sorry, they are not similar player. Caufield is heavier, faster and most importantly a winger.

Again, nobody is saying that the chances of Caufield and Hutson making the nhl are exactly the same. The comparison is that both were considered a long shot to become good nhlers due to their size. Maybe Hutson is even more of a long shot, but both were long shots.

Debrincat went in the 2nd round despite putting ridiculous numbers in the ohl. His success in the NHL is a big reason why Caufield didn't go lower than 15th.



In his d+2 season, Caufield was listed at 5'7 165 lbs on the Badger's website. There is absolutely not a long list of forwards around that size in the nhl. In fact, there was nobody. Debrincat was the same height, but he was considerably heavier (180lbs).




Hutson won't be a successful nhl player due to his defense, it will be due to his offense. If he's bad defensively but can score 60 pts, that's still a good defenseman.

 

[durojean]

No group thinking for me, I am doubtful since the beginning about Hutson, and the leaugue as a whole was doubtful, that's why he was picked at #62. The main thing for me is how can he transfer his play from the NCAA on a stacked team to the NHL. People too often neglect this aspect, the best recent example is Struble, many were surprised by how fast he made it, but he was ready from day one with Laval last year. He was a plug and play player because his strenght were well suited to be a defense first D in the NHL. He is very strong, good speed and mobility, and he minimizes risk taking. Not hard to understand why he made it quickly in the big team lineup and he showed good decision making avoiding risk, while still being effective with his first pass.

Hutson is the opposite of Struble, he is small and weak physically, not fast. With him, it's all about vision and IQ, and being elusive with the puck. That works at the NCAA or junior level, but he won't be able to make it work at the NHL level because players are generally bigger and faster. So he will be big liability on defense and his offensive skills won't work because he will face much better opponents.

I was watching the Habs against Carolina last week. The Canes are big and with an agressive forecheck, and strong cycling in the offensive zone. I tried to imagine how Hutson would be able to face that. Forget the pairing with a bigger partner. Against a team like Carolina, you need two Ds that can help stopping them.

Also, comparison with Caufield is worth nothing because a winger in not exposed like a D to the physical play. Caufield is a talented winger, a sniper with good speed and a good playmaker too. I like him, but as soon he is along the board fighting for the puck, you know the odds are high that the opposing team will win the battle. But Caufield can compensate that glaring weakness with the rest of his play. Hutson is slower, smaller, and as a D he won't be able to hide. Opponents will go on his side as much as possible. He will be a target.

I still think that his only path forward is to play one more year in the NCAA because the AHL is a very physical league, not as fast as the NHL, but more physical with more dirty hits on talented players. Look at Sean Farrell this year with Laval. The guy is clearly offensivly talented, but he is small and relatively weak, and like Hutson he is not a great skater. It's all about IQ and skills. Also, he missed 20 games, and he is almost more than two years older than Hutson. I doubt Farrell will ever establish himself with the Habs.

It's a moot point. I think the size of the other team. If Hutson is patient enough and his passes are and anticipation are on point, he will most than likely get the puck out of the zone more than the other players and it will help the team.

Against Carolina, one of the thing that was blatant was how the D could not clear the puck when they had it on their stick and how they often just gave it back to Carolina. It was also how a lot of passes went through a lot of our players.

If Hutson IQ is really elite like we think it is. The play will come slow to him and the good decision making he will have will make the Habs have the puck more on their stick. That is why he was trusted so much at the World Championship and that will be his real recipe for success at the nhl level.

We still have to determine at what point his IQ is advanced compared to NHLers. If that gap becomes too thight, he'll probably have a way harder time at the NHL level. If he sees the game like the elite. It won't be a probleme. RIght now, he shows signs that he could see the game at an elite level.

 

[EXPOS123]

It's like people's memory suddenly went blank. If there's one thing we learned about the bubble playoffs and the 2021 cup run is that guys like Suzuki and Caufield step their game up when it matters.

The Habs do indeed need to get bigger. They need to find the kinds of players who match size with skill. But saying all that, Hutson is arguably the Habs' best prospect. Why are people worried about him?

He went from "Oh shit! Steal of the draft" when he was selected to "Hot damn! This kid is unreal" during and after his freshman year to "Lane's the best and most trusted D on USA" at the WJC to all of a sudden "He's too small, he's not ready."

What the hell happened along the way that has many concerned?

Easy ...because we have a history of overvaluating and over hyping our prospects.

We have been so terrible at drafting and developing players that the minute one shows any semblance of talent we automatically ignore the evident flaws they have and assume they will effectually overcome them, including size and strength issues.

I still remember reading how Jake Evans can be a #2 C or Mete being a top 4 d.

What’s Will Bitten up to theses days after he was “ the steal of the draft !”

I

 

[WeThreeKings]

Easy ...because we have a history of overvaluating and over hyping our prospects.

We have been so terrible at drafting and developing players that the minute one shows any semblance of talent we automatically ignore the evident flaws they have and assume they will effectually overcome them, including size and strength issues.

I still remember reading how Jake Evans can be a #2 C or Mete being a top 4 d.

What’s Will Bitten up to theses days after he was “ the steal of the draft !”

I

And we have a history of bashing our players and underhyping them.. remember how Slaf was the worst 1st overall just 40 games ago?

 

[jfm133]

Sorry, you are talking about Hutson against NCAA players. Against a team like Carolina he will have much less time to think and react and will be under stress with a physical threat that will be much higher. In the NCAA there is Boston College that is at a similar level, most of the other team are so much weaker thant BU. He is facing most of the time weak to very weak opponents and again, it's all about his play and physical profile being easy to transfer to the pro level. I think that it's not. He won't be the first small and relatively slow player that dominates lower level league that won't be able to replicate that at the highest level.

It's a moot point. I think the size of the other team. If Hutson is patient enough and his passes are and anticipation are on point, he will most than likely get the puck out of the zone more than the other players and it will help the team.

Against Carolina, one of the thing that was blatant was how the D could not clear the puck when they had it on their stick and how they often just gave it back to Carolina. It was also how a lot of passes went through a lot of our players.

If Hutson IQ is really elite like we think it is. The play will come slow to him and the good decision making he will have will make the Habs have the puck more on their stick. That is why he was trusted so much at the World Championship and that will be his real recipe for success at the nhl level.

We still have to determine at what point his IQ is advanced compared to NHLers. If that gap becomes too thight, he'll probably have a way harder time at the NHL level. If he sees the game like the elite. It won't be a probleme. RIght now, he shows signs that he could see the game at an elite level.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You named 2 big forwards and one who is under 6'0" tall and declared that we do not have a size issue? There are still 9 other forwards who will comprise just under 80% of the forward ice time and that does need to be recognized and addressed.

There is no doubt that Caufield needs to be sheltered a little more on the 2nd line as he is a turnover machine this season and almost all of our forward prospects are mid to smaller sized wingers. Outside of Heineman, F.Xhekaj and Tuch there isn't much size to speak of and none of those three are a lock at this point in time to even be good NHLers.

Hutson will be ok if the rest of the blueline remains big as it appears it will but he will absolutely need to make significant gains in his skating as well as gaining some mass so that he will be able to absorb some contact without ending up on his butt. He will likely get some games in at the end of the season and I fully expect to see moments of brilliance as well as moments of him being overwhelmed by his disadvantages. Hutson should work his tail off this summer to improve on all of his physical limitations and should start the season with Laval where he can work on adjusting his game to dealing with pro forecheckers and taking contact from bigger, stronger and more aggressive opponents.

The size issue is a real issue and I would bet my house that Hughes is focused on trying to find a way to turn his plethora of draft picks and mid/smaller sized players along with the overflow of D prospects into a couple of talented younger forwards who bring some size to the table.

Caufield’s turnovers are a recent issue and much of that is on the PP where we insist on having the trailing player dish the puck to him right at the blueline on entry. It’s a horrible play and has consistently resulted in the puck going the other way.

Caufield is consistently blamed for this but the play itself is badly designed and leads to dangerous turnovers and two on ones the other way. That’s not the fault of the player, it’s just a really bad setup.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

There's definitely some type of brain farts going on where a lot of posters refuse to acknowledge what happened prior to the first tank year. Caufield actually scored most of his goals against Vegas.

Of course the Habs need to get bigger but they also need to get more skilled. I don't see another small defenseman, or perimeter/soft defenseman in our line-up except for maybe Engstrom if he makes it or Konyushkov. Hutson will be well insulated.

My take on this is a few different things.

1. People are scarred from the Bergevin regime where every highly touted prospect busted and Bergevin didn't trade them before they busted to add to a team that could have done damage if they added more scoring up front. The differences now is that the development team is much different and we are not currently in a cup contending window. I've seen posters mention trading Kidney and Mesar already. Why the hell would we be trading those prospects when one hasn't even debuted in the AHL and the other is in year 1 and is a long term project? More-over, what would we hope to gain from trading them? So that type of thinking is going over into Hutson, a "we can't have nice things" line of thinking where it's the Habs and he will bust so move him now.

2. A lot of the board is more obsessed with being right than anything else. We saw it drag on with Slafkovsky and we'll see it on many other prospects like Reinbacher and Mesar. The thing with that position is that it is easy to be right as most prospects do bust or don't live up to expectations and the only thing you need to do if they don't bust is say "I just wanted what was best for the team, I'm happy to be wrong, I was never all that serious" and hope it goes into background.. but when you're right, you can pound your chest and declare yourself an elite talent evaluator.

I really don’t see size as an issue. And in a normal year CC would be on pace for 40 goals. His underlying numbers are really good and his passing has really improved. It’s a shame that the net has suddenly eluded him because he’s having an otherwise great year.

As for Hutson, he’ll be surrounded by a fairly large defense group. I’m not worried about him in the least.

Totally agree that we don’t want to be the smallest team in the league. Not a recipe for success. However, we do t need to be the biggest either.

You’re right that people are shell shocked from the previous regime. We add a small player and people seem to think we’re building the whole team that way. It’s not the case.

Awesome f***ing movie.

 

[Tyson]

I really don’t see size as an issue. And in a normal year CC would be on pace for 40 goals. His underlying numbers are really good and his passing has really improved. It’s a shame that the net has suddenly eluded him because he’s having an otherwise great year.

As for Hutson, he’ll be surrounded by a fairly large defense group. I’m not worried about him in the least.

Totally agree that we don’t want to be the smallest team in the league. Not a recipe for success. However, we do t need to be the biggest either.

You’re right that people are shell shocked from the previous regime. We add a small player and people seem to think we’re building the whole team that way. It’s not the case.


Awesome f***ing movie.

They recently signed Farrell and drafted Mesar though.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It's more than fine for fans to be unsure or preferring to temper their expectations. I have no issue with any of that. I disagree with them, but I don't hold it against anyone for having that opinion.

What perplexes me is that suddenly, now that we know he's about to turn pro, they say he's not ready, he's too small, he will get crushed when before, that wasn't as much as issue.

He has things to work on and improve. But that makes me believe even more that he belongs in the NHL or AHL, where the Canadiens development team can get on the ice and work directly with him.

I think it’s one thing to think he’s got the potential to be a great player and another to think he’s too small now. 160 lbs is really, really light.

I think I’m a couple of years he’s going to be 180 and that’ll be a lot better. I don’t want to see him in the NHL until at least 25-26.

They recently signed Farrell and drafted Mesar though.

That’s okay. It doesn’t mean they’re part of the future. We have an abundance of young players and not all are going to make the club. Long term I’m not worried about size. Some will be used as currency in future moves.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Easy ...because we have a history of overvaluating and over hyping our prospects.

The issue I have here is that all of a sudden, people are concerned. They weren't when he was drafted. They weren't when he had a historic freshman year in the NCAA. But now, many are worried.

We have been so terrible at drafting and developing players that the minute one shows any semblance of talent we automatically ignore the evident flaws they have and assume they will effectually overcome them, including size and strength issues.

They have a development department now. And no one is out here saying Hutson is flawless. Not a single person said he has nothing to work on.

I still remember reading how Jake Evans can be a #2 C or Mete being a top 4 d.

I don't recall people coming out of the woodwork saying Evans can be a 2C and Mete a Top-4 D the way people have come out of nowhere being concerned the way they do Hutson, when they weren't before.

What’s Will Bitten up to theses days after he was “ the steal of the draft !”

I don't know where you heard Bitten was the "steal of the draft." I feel like you're just making these things up only to have an argument to make.

 

[Goalfield13]

Hutson won't be a successful nhl player due to his defense, it will be due to his offense. If he's bad defensively but can score 60 pts, that's still a good defenseman.

Not for the playoffs, it isn't. You might be able to get into the playoffs with players like that, but good luck come playoff time.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Not for the playoffs, it isn't. You might be able to get into the playoffs with players like that, but good luck come playoff time.

Wait until Habs make the playoffs with Hutson on it before you say you don't go through the playoffs with guys like him.

Folks were saying the same thing about Caufield, who was scoring machine at USNDTP and NCAA. They said you don't go through the playoffs with a small player like him. Yet in 2021, he showed us that they very well can and that Caufield played a key role and in big moments.

 

[HomaridII]

Wait until Habs make the playoffs with Hutson on it before you say you don't go through the playoffs with guys like him.

Folks were saying the same thing about Caufield, who was scoring machine at USNDTP and NCAA. They said you don't go through the playoffs with a small player like him. Yet in 2021, he showed us that they very well can and that Caufield played a key role and in big moments.

Honestly Mr. Michaels, like Slaf, for 20-30% of the fan base, the only way to believe it will be when Hutson is playing for the habs and in the playoffs. Even if he succeeds in the AHL they will say its just the AHL.

Nevermind that at EVERY level, Hutson has played 28-30 mins per game, including the World Juniors were the transformed his game completely.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Someone should tell Chicago that drafting Bedard was a mistake.

 

[HomaridII]

Someone should tell Chicago that drafting Bedard was a mistake.

You don't win in the playoffs with Bedard.

 

[jfm133]

Interesting article about smaller Ds. But remember, Hutson is not a small D, he would be the smallest D in the NHL.

The Decline Of Small Defensemen In The NHL Draft - HockeyProspect.com

Ryan Ellis was drafted 11th overall ny Nashville in 2009. Photo by Aaron Bell/OHL Images

hockeyprospect.com

 

[Goalfield13]

Wait until Habs make the playoffs with Hutson on it before you say you don't go through the playoffs with guys like him.

Folks were saying the same thing about Caufield, who was scoring machine at USNDTP and NCAA. They said you don't go through the playoffs with a small player like him. Yet in 2021, he showed us that they very well can and that Caufield played a key role and in big moments.

Again with the Caufield comparison. One is a winger and the other is a D. Even as a winger with much less responsibility, Caufield still needs to be insulated to be effective.

Anyways, the main issue with Hutson right now is his weight. sub 160 isn't going to cut it even in the AHL right now. He needs to gain mass. If he does, I am fine with him. The problem is people wanting him to play in the AHL/NHL next year at that weight.

 

[Goalfield13]

Interesting article about smaller Ds. But remember, Hutson is not a small D, he would be the smallest D in the NHL.

The Decline Of Small Defensemen In The NHL Draft - HockeyProspect.com

Ryan Ellis was drafted 11th overall ny Nashville in 2009. Photo by Aaron Bell/OHL Images

hockeyprospect.com

Interesting how they mention Stanley Cup winning teams and the size of their D-core. We made it to the finals with a bunch of huge D as well to help protect Price and clear the zone (they talk about our run in the article as well).

Playoff hockey is different, and teams know this. Put a small D out there in a top 4 role and watch them get pounded constantly by the bottom 6 wingers of the opposition, which will all be huge with the sole purpose of dumping the puck, laying a hit and crashing the net. Bottom 6 wingers like that are dime a dozen, and it is a very easy strategy to employ.

I can see Hutson being a great D for the regular season, helping this team get to the playoffs, but I don't like the idea of him taking on a top 4 role once the playoffs start unless he really bulks up. A D like him, who will put up points in the regular season, is going to cost a lot on the cap just to be put in a bottom pair role when it counts.

Edit: It's like this quote from the article is about Hutson lol:

"The draft itself is a complex beast, but more and more, I’m starting to see this trend play out when scouting smaller defensemen. If they can’t defend, or if their skating is only average, their road to get to the NHL will be much more difficult. It should be interesting to see whether or not this reality continues to evolve over the next few years, and how teams adapt their drafting strategies as a result."

 

[WeThreeKings]

Interesting how they mention Stanley Cup winning teams and the size of their D-core. We made it to the finals with a bunch of huge D as well to help protect Price and clear the zone (they talk about our run in the article as well).

Playoff hockey is different, and teams know this. Put a small D out there in a top 4 role and watch them get pounded constantly by the bottom 6 wingers of the opposition, which will all be huge with the sole purpose of dumping the puck, laying a hit and crashing the net. Bottom 6 wingers like that are dime a dozen, and it is a very easy strategy to employ.

I can see Hutson being a great D for the regular season, helping this team get to the playoffs, but I don't like the idea of him taking on a top 4 role once the playoffs start unless he really bulks up. A D like him, who will put up points in the regular season, is going to cost a lot on the cap just to be put in a bottom pair role when it counts.

Luckily, the Habs have a deep defense core and a large number of bigger, smooth skating defenseman.. if it's an issue, they'll play him situationally.