Value of: Lafreniere to Toronto

[Arthur Morgan]

Do you see any of those things in his game today? What specific things about his game makes you think he's got a higher ceiling than guys like Robertson or Knies?

I think it's safe to say that the scouts were wrong about him, so I am not sure I'd put any credence into them at this point.

He's shown nothing at the NHL level to suggest he has anything more than middle 6 potential.

he's 21 years old dude. how long did it take for Tage to break out again? just because what you seen before he was drafted hasn't fully been developed in the NHL doesn't mean we will never see it.

I didn't even say anything about Robertson or Knies and I dunno Im not going to compare them to my teams prospects because really I dont give a shit.

he's a young guy still and he could for all we know find that game.

 

[bernmeister]

No team is giving up on a first overall in his d+3 for that package.

this^

LaF results way up as his skating is starting to arrive
does not help GG jerks his players in and out of lineup shuffling lines

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

he's 21 years old dude. how long did it take for Tage to break out again? just because what you seen before he was drafted hasn't fully been developed in the NHL doesn't mean we will never see it.

I didn't even say anything about Robertson or Knies and I dunno Im not going to compare them to my teams prospects because really I dont give a shit.

he's a young guy still and he could for all we know find that game.

Thompson had an elite shot with a great set of hands and was 9 ft tall. He had the raw materials where you could see there was potential there.

I don't see much of anything in that regard for Lafreniere. He has a good shot that takes him time to get off. He has pretty good vision, but doesn't process the game very well. He has decent hands but nothing good enough to consistently evade defenders. He is a good straight line skater with poor agility. He is pretty weak on the puck.

There's nothing there that suggests high end potential. Knies and Robertson both have more high end potential IMO.

 

[EK392000]

I think it's safe to say that the scouts were wrong about him, so I am not sure I'd put any credence into them at this point.

He's shown nothing at the NHL level to suggest he has anything more than middle 6 potential.

Well, yeah, but you got to see the future. They didn't when they made those projections.

The ceiling could still be there. It could be a lack of confidence, misusage, or some other factor impacting his development. As time goes on, it looks less and less likely that he'll reach it.

Maybe he'll have a breakout season instead of linear progression. Who knows?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Cause it appears Keefe wants nothing to do with him. Despite him playing well when he gets game time, Keefe just ends up scratching him. Hes already racked up quite a few injuries since moving into the pro leagues so thats a bit of concern. I could see a world where a player like laf slots in better alongside the leafs two strong C's and RW's than someone like Robertson.

But its not like I'm running to the airport to ship him off for Laf. Its more so if the Leafs were to get Laf, I'd be fine if it was robertson (unlike if it was Knies) and wait to see how it plays out. Hopefully Keefe gives him some more playing time though.

That's a coaching mistake, but Robertson is still only 21. He'll get more and more time as he earns trust.

 

[bernmeister]

Leafs do not have assets NY would want for sufficient return at minimum.

LaF not being moved at presemt
IF he were, highest competitive bid

TOR is not a fit

more like w/Sens:
LaF + Kravtsov + Jones + NYR + DAL 2023 1st
for
Sanderson + Sens 2023, 2024 + 2025 2nds + WAS 2024 2nd

that could be win win

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Well, yeah, but you got to see the future. They didn't when they made those projections.

The ceiling could still be there. It could be a lack of confidence, misusage, or some other factor impacting his development. As time goes on, it looks less and less likely that he'll reach it.

Maybe he'll have a breakout season instead of linear progression. Who knows?

Yeah, and the benefit of hindsight tells us their initial projections were wrong. He was projected as an elite NHL ready player that would walk in and be a top line winger right off the bat. There was never much progression expected beyond that - he wasn't supposed to be a Jack Hughes type of 1OA, where people knew it was going to take him a few years to really hit his stride.

They were just flat out wrong about the player he was and how that would translate to the NHL. 21 year olds can improve, but they aren't going to fundamentally change.

Leafs do not have assets NY would want for sufficient return at minimum.

LaF not being moved at presemt
IF he were, highest competitive bid

TOR is not a fit

more like w/Sens:
LaF + Kravtsov + Jones + NYR + DAL 2023 1st
for
Sanderson + Sens 2023, 2024 + 2025 2nds + WAS 2024 2nd

that could be win win

Ottawa isn't trading Sanderson lol

 

[bernmeister]

.... Ottawa isn't trading Sanderson lol

Likely true, but that's a lot going to them, and that is what it would take for NY.

unrelated
NJ played solid game last night
kudos

 

[Knies iT]

If you're talking value based on merit, i.e. what Lafreniere has done in the NHL, it is going to be minimal.

But his draft pedigree will skew his value so just wait out his ELC and the value will drop off a cliff.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Thompson had an elite shot with a great set of hands and was 9 ft tall. He had the raw materials where you could see there was potential there.

I don't see much of anything in that regard for Lafreniere. He has a good shot that takes him time to get off. He has pretty good vision, but doesn't process the game very well. He has decent hands but nothing good enough to consistently evade defenders. He is a good straight line skater with poor agility. He is pretty weak on the puck.

There's nothing there that suggests high end potential. Knies and Robertson both have more high end potential IMO.

I dunno dude, it's still early I mean yeah he's not close to what people expected and the chances of him becoming that now is slim but I wouldnt say it's impossible yet. in another year or 2 on the Rangers and it's the same then only thing left is change of scenery.

I dunno if Id be willing to over pay for those odds but I would for sure be willing to give him a chance he finds himself.

and I dunno I dont wanna be biased towards my teams prospects but I love hearing that from you about Knies and Robertson

one thing I kinda forgot about Thompson he grew like what 9inches after he was drafted and had to refigure out his entire game. I thought he was almost done when his skating wasn't improving but a year later and look at him now. real late bloomer.

If you're talking value based on merit, i.e. what Lafreniere has done in the NHL, it is going to be minimal.

But his draft pedigree will skew his value so just wait out his ELC and the value will drop off a cliff.

yeah I think at this point if your a team buying Laf, your over paying just based off his draft position alone for value wise and what we have seen in the NHL along with his potential still the price should be fair but nothing crazy

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

'23 1st, '24 1st, Knies, Kokkonen
otherwise, NYR needn't bother

Considering the two first round picks will be 25 to 32 and Kokkonen is a bottom pairing Dman ceiling.
Knies is the only asset that makes you sweat if you are the Leafs.
But then the plan for Knies is sign and have him around for the play off run.
Laf added to that top 6 could be explosive.

 

[Srsly]

I'd offer Robertson.

The production isn't much different but maybe a change of scenery for both. Small plus on top perhaps.

The only thing likely holding the Rangers / fans on this board is the whole 1st overall thing.

Why would they trade for a similar player with less upside? It doesn’t seem rational even if you value their current production the same. Which I'm not sure others would.

 

[Amadeus]

Nylander and Knies for Krieder and Lafranier

I’d have no interest in Krieder in practicular but that’d be my offer. I’m assuming the rangers keep what they have.

Yeah it's okay from Toronto. Don't want to lose Nylander though.

 

[Breakers]

Nylander, Knies and a 1st …. “At minimum”



LOLOL that is a HOF ask, even for this site.

 

[nbwingsfan]

not Nylander + 1st on top
and yeah Knies++ or +++ would be expected but Nylander + Knies + 1st is just a f*** you ask to instantly end negotiations

Of course. I’m not even sure Kakko + Lafreniere would get Nylander alone

Anyone saying Knies is worth more than Lafreniere is out of their mind as well though.

 

[Martin Skoula]

What's the missing piece that puts Lafs game together? From what I've seen he'd need to become a considerably better skater, considerably stronger, significantly improve his shooting mechanics just to be a threat for good 2nd line numbers. Is there anything in his game that he does at a top-line level today?

 

[6ix]

Year 3 is usually when players figure it out, but it still hasn’t happened with Laf. He was also touted as one of the more NHL ready 1st overalls, which is even more concerning at this point. The shine has worn off on Laf, the only thing he’s holding onto at this point is 1st OA status. I don’t think he’d get as much value as rangers think in a trade, so they will hold on to him and hope he is a late bloomer in regards to being an elite player.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Why would the Rangers move Laf if it wasn't for a finished product? I can't see a trade they'd win if they move him for a prospect or struggling young guy.

Laf only gets moved if it's an all-in kind of deal to bring in a top line player with term.

 

[Craft Beer Lover]

Leafs do not have assets NY would want for sufficient return at minimum.

LaF not being moved at presemt
IF he were, highest competitive bid

TOR is not a fit

more like w/Sens:
LaF + Kravtsov + Jones + NYR + DAL 2023 1st
for
Sanderson + Sens 2023, 2024 + 2025 2nds + WAS 2024 2nd

that could be win win

Hysterical. There is NO WAY that the Senators trade Jake Sanderson.

 

[Kupo]

What's the missing piece that puts Lafs game together?

PP time for starters.

Laf hasn’t had the same opportunities that most 1st OA’s have since he was drafted by a team that has two superior veteran LW’s ahead of him.

He did have 19ES goals last season and 12 in 56ES goals his rookie season. He’s not a black hole offensively. Kid needs more a bigger role in the top-6. When he’s playing with confidence he looks legit.

 

[Auston Marlander]

People have this backwards. It isn't a package for Laf, it's Laf as part of a package for a top line player. That doesn't happen with any top 10 team.

 

[HuGo Sham]

Leafs badly need a top 6 LW and would be gambling a change of scenery would unlock some potential here. What could a trade look like here?

I don't think Kerfoot, Holl and a 2nd will get it done

 

[HuGo Sham]

Going to take a lot for a former first overall still on his ELC, even though he hasn’t lit it up yet, he’s still young.
NYR would probably want a First, Nylander and Knies.
I just don’t see NYR trading him, or leafs paying the ask.

Rangers will want a lot, so an overpay for 1OA, and leafs won’t want to pay a lot, because he hasn’t proven it, so for that reason I can’t see a deal because of that.

Wut?

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

Another thread another team being forced to assess Toronto’s trash prospects while having their desired star slandered by the Leaf fan base when they don’t want said trash.

 

[Contenderorpretender]

Another thread another team being forced to assess Toronto’s trash prospects while having their desired star slandered by the Leaf fan base when they don’t want said trash.

What star is being slandered? The posts are about lafreniere isn't it?