Speculation: LA Kings Offseason Thread

[Surf Nutz]

HockeyBuzz.com - Eklund - Pierre-Luc Dubois…to Kings (e4), Montreal (e3) Wed's Buzzcast

www.hockeybuzz.com

Good news for you guys. EK has PLD to LA at an E⁴ so it's not happening.

Its funny til its not.
Getting nervous that
1. Blake is starting to panic because the contract of his coach is expiring , followed by his own in 24/25.
2. Blake has a standing offer on the table.

https://s4.scoopwhoop.com/anj/bromance/519397539.jpg

Too much smoke from Canada lately.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

If you saw the sheer number and type of DMs I got for defending Vilardi here and on the main board, you wouldn't feel this way.

And trust me, there are PLENTY of receipts on this board for Vilardi as there will be for QB one way or another. Ultimately thougth it's not about being right or wrong, just about not being a f***ing dick about your opinion.

The vindication is an emotional catharsis when you have people chasing you around rooting for a guy failing by telling you how much he sucks and how dumb you are for believing--no matter how much reasonable evidence you provide--until he doesn't and they disappear and pretend it never happened.

That's going double for Byfield right now. should he succeed--saying you were rooting for him all along because you were a Kings fan doesn't excuse being a shithead about it (not YOU in particular SR10, that's just a general 'you' comment to the forum). I mean we're not on flat-out insults yet but being dismissive of evidence-based opinions is close considering no one can be 'right' yet anyway.

If you're getting harassed in DMs then I wholly understand the myopia. But surely you can acknowledge the irony of talking about receipts and vindication only to then say it's not about being right and wrong. It's clearly about being right and wrong a little bit.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Do we like this guy better than PLD?

 

[johnjm22]

Lindholm will turn 30 in the first year of his new contract.

If the Flames made him a big offer similar to what Huberdeau/Weeger/Kadri got, that just shows how stupid they are.

 

[Telos]

I definitely like Lindholm better, but I would be afraid of what that contract would look like. Of course, I am confused overall about adding another high-dollar center given our current financial situation and lack of goaltending as well as defensive deficiencies.

 

[bland]

I definitely like Lindholm better, but I would be afraid of what that contract would look like. Of course, I am confused overall about adding another high-dollar center given our current financial situation and lack of goaltending as well as defensive deficiencies.

Lindholm is "better" than Dubois, but Dubois is a better fit for the Kings.

The only problem I have with that potential deal is that I don't feel Dubois is "better" than any of the pieces Winnipeg would most likely want in return. It would be a vanity move at this point.

 

[JeanBlanc]

Do we like this guy better than PLD?

Darryl Sutter on Elias Lindholm:
He’s one of the best all-around centremen in the NHLd. I’ve coached some good ones but he’s as close to a (Anze) Kopitar-type player as there is. A top two-way game. He plays a great possession game — he’s like a quarterback.

The Athletic -- Inside Elias Lindholm’s rise to 40 goals: ‘This is not a surprise’


"It wasn’t a complete surprise that Lindholm didn’t replicate the success he had with Johnny Gaudreau and Matthew Tkachuk last season. But his production did trail off in the second half of the season, which is a bit of a surprise considering he spent the entire season playing with Toffoli. The next question for Lindholm: Does he want to stay in Calgary beyond another season?
Grade: B-"
The Athletic -- Calgary Flames report cards: There’s room for improvement at every level


Great overview of the choices from a pretty balanced Calgary point of view, including calling his defensive prowess more reputational than statistical. Additionally, he's coming off a down year at 28.
"It’s just basic knowledge that a player is unlikely to commit to signing long-term after a down year. With a year left on his contract and with Sutter no longer in the picture, it makes a ton of sense for Lindholm to bet on himself this coming season and cash in next summer."
The Win Column -- Should the Calgary Flames consider trading Elias Lindholm?

 

[Sol]

If you saw the sheer number and type of DMs I got for defending Vilardi here and on the main board, you wouldn't feel this way.

And trust me, there are PLENTY of receipts on this board for Vilardi as there will be for QB one way or another. Ultimately thougth it's not about being right or wrong, just about not being a f***ing dick about your opinion.

The vindication is an emotional catharsis when you have people chasing you around rooting for a guy failing by telling you how much he sucks and how dumb you are for believing--no matter how much reasonable evidence you provide--until he doesn't and they disappear and pretend it never happened.

That's going double for Byfield right now. should he succeed--saying you were rooting for him all along because you were a Kings fan doesn't excuse being a shithead about it (not YOU in particular SR10, that's just a general 'you' comment to the forum). I mean we're not on flat-out insults yet but being dismissive of evidence-based opinions is close considering no one can be 'right' yet anyway.

No offense I have a hard time believing people were blowing up your messages for defending Vilardi of all players. I've been pretty ruthless in my feelings regarding Byfield and not one person has messaged me crying about it.

The problem with your stances in general when it comes to prospect is that you seem to have this unusual expectation that every prospect will blossom when you know thats not the case. You will continue to act surprised that the weak mitigating arguments you bring up for Byfield and all his struggles dont stack up well to how bad he looks to most people. Also, I wanted to ask just to see how honest you are with your position, who would you move Byfield for ?

I'd be more sympathetic to your rationale if it wasn't the same shit over and over again just with different names attached to it.

I know there's a few people who bring up Vilardi but it seems like most of those people dont realize how prior to last season how bad he looked. And again, no one said with Vilardi that he had a skill issue. It was always a speed issue and that got adjusted.

 

[johnjm22]

I would take PLD over Lindholm.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

If you're getting harassed in DMs then I wholly understand the myopia. But surely you can acknowledge the irony of talking about receipts and vindication only to then say it's not about being right and wrong. It's clearly about being right and wrong a little bit.

It is, though.

If you say I don't believe in Byfield because...that's a lot different than youre stupid for still believing in byfield.

I'd be more sympathetic to your rationale if it wasn't the same shit over and over again just with different names attached to it.

I'm sorry nuance is lost on you, you can piss off now.

My reasons are based on facts, stats, video evidence, yours going back to even jonathan quick are just 'i hate this guy because he looks stupid.' no depth.

You're welcome to hate on the dude as much as you want but don't come for me with this bullshit, I'm over it.

 

[Sol]

It is, though.

If you say I don't believe in Byfield because...that's a lot different than youre stupid for still believing in byfield.



I'm sorry nuance is lost on you, you can piss off now.

Who would you move him for?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Who would you move him for?

Another young potential 1C, or an existing mid-20s 1C which would be an overpayment on their part

There's no point in selling low on a f***ing 20 year old.

 

[Sol]

Another young potential 1C, or an existing mid-20s 1C which would be an overpayment on their part

There's no point in selling low on a f***ing 20 year old.

Name a player? I just want to see how fair you value it.

“Selling low” implies a surety that their value would go higher. You don’t think it’s possible that he won’t sink at all in value? You legit see nothing concerning in his game at all?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Name a player? I just want to see how fair you value it.

“Selling low” implies a surety that their value would go higher. You don’t think it’s possible that he won’t sink at all in value? You legit see nothing concerning in his game at all?

He COULD sink in value. I don't believe he will, you do. It's that simple.

In my opinion, the risk of trading him right now outweighs what he could be as well as anything we could get back in a trade for him. I can't name/think of a similar player...I think he would have been a fair piece for Eichel had the Kings gone that route. But again, the Kings should not have been in the business of trading teens for mid-20s.

I have never said I'm not concerned at all about him, I just think he's still developing and has had major speedbumps. Again, it's not that binary. you keep saying you see literally nothing promising...that's troubling. I see lots of promise, I also see plenty of hurdles.

 

[Sol]

He COULD sink in value. I don't believe he will, you do. It's that simple.

In my opinion, the risk of trading him right now outweighs what he could be as well as anything we could get back in a trade for him. I can't name/think of a similar player...I think he would have been a fair piece for Eichel had the Kings gone that route. But again, the Kings should not have been in the business of trading teens for mid-20s.

I have never said I'm not concerned at all about him, I just think he's still developing and has had major speedbumps. Again, it's not that binary. you keep saying you see literally nothing promising...that's troubling. I see lots of promise, I also see plenty of hurdles.

You think his value is current day Eichel? I do think we’re far apart. I see a lot of red flags with him yeah or as you say major speed bumps. There’s not much to like about his game right now, that being said that’s the biggest positive. There’s a lot bad in his game right now that either he can improve drastically from where he’s at now or flounder even more. I think it’s a 60-40 due to fact he seems to be imbued with really low confidence.

 

[bmr]

Buy low and sell high. I gotta agree with RJ on this - Byfield is too young and has shown too much promise to just trade away now unless it's *very* compelling. It's almost a certainty that next year he will improve his scoring touch. I think we've seen his floor - his ceiling is a lot higher than most players given his development curve. Players like Kempe and Vilardi should provide additional ammunition that it is important to give these guys at least 3-4 years in the bigs before even thinking about pulling the plug.

 

[Sol]

Buy low and sell high. I gotta agree with RJ on this - Byfield is too young and has shown too much promise to just trade away now unless it's *very* compelling. It's almost a certainty that next year he will improve his scoring touch. I think we've seen his floor - his ceiling is a lot higher than most players given his development curve. Players like Kempe and Vilardi should provide additional ammunition that it is important to give these guys at least 3-4 years in the bigs before even thinking about pulling the plug.

Can you explain to me what he’s shown you exactly? Like when you watch him play what is there about his game that bleeds promise?

 

[bmr]

Can you explain to me what he’s shown you exactly? Like when you watch him play what is there about his game that bleeds promise?

There were quite a few stretch of games where Faust and Foxy were commenting on how he was making Kopitar and Kempe better. I remember a couple of away team broadcasts that were commenting on how if he keeps developing he will be a force. He hasn't been effective yet from a scoring standpoint, but is definitely showing capability of driving the play and assisting on some key goals. He did not look out of place on that line and got some valuable experience in the playoffs as far as the level you need to raise your game in order to be successful.

I like what i'm seeing statistically:

2021-22 he was 40GP - 5G - 5A and a -7
2022-23 he was 53GP - 3G - 19A and a +13
2022-23 (Playoffs) was 6GP - 1G - 3A

It's easy to overlook how he's 20 years old, 6'5" tall and will probably fill out to 230+. He has speed and he has an ability to set up goals and finish. Just needs to put it all together. Who else in the league do you know with those attributes that has a higher ceiling?

I'm not against trading him. If we can put together something good, I'd rather lose him than Vilardi or Clarke. Has to be really good.

 

[King'sPawn]

You think his value is current day Eichel?

He said a piece - I don't know a one-for-one straight up suggestion that would be fair.

Can you explain to me what he’s shown you exactly? Like when you watch him play what is there about his game that bleeds promise?

Not directed at me, but...
- he's matured how he fights for pucks. He no longer does fly-bys all the time
- he's reading plays better. Getting into position to create scoring chances for himself (albeit not converted yet) but also faster with his decision-making to move the puck
- he has won board battles with multiple people on him
- while he still has good speed, as he's always had, he's not using that as his only tool.
- I think he's shown a high panic threshold.

Frankly, the worst part of his game has been his shots not going in. And I'm banking on him working on it during the offseason, because during the season, it's hard to get that kind of dedicated practice in (as usually practices focus on team play, positioning, reads, and systemic execution).

 

[deaderhead28]

The Byfield fan club in denial like the Titanic staff the night the Titanic sank. Let the fan clubs band play while the ship sinks.Byfields is not a first line center or is he a 1st line winger at this time and I doubt he will be a productive one at that if left on the 1st line. I could see him as maybe a 2nd liner or a strong 3rd liner.

 

[DoktorJeep]

It’s okay to maintain high hopes for young guys picked early, even after a couple years. What’s the harm in wanting to see a kid breakthrough on your team. It shouldn’t factor into your feelings about the team and franchise.

When 90% of the hyped kids are flopping and the best development results are career depth players, then you should dump your hopes about management and hold onto those for the kids. Otherwise, you don’t have a lot of reasons to stay remotely interested, never mind excited.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

What would you offer for Zadorov? Preferably only futures. Maybe some D prospect (Like Bjornfot) and a 2nd for Zadorov retained?

 

[Surf Nutz]

The Bookmark feature is kind cool.
I just started using it on this thread.
Some of the worst takes I have ever seen are the ones on Byfield being a bust after he finshed the season on L1 as LW and TMac never even came out from under the toll bridge and put the gate down, until they were about to get eliminated.
Like Kempe and Vilardi he is learning to play on the defensive side of the puck, doing the little things correct, playing the boards cycling, maintaining the possession and making nice passes to his to his perfect mentors.
Like Kempe and Vilardi the offensive statistic breakout will follow.
Trading him, especially for PLD is a tenure ending GM mistake.
Ignore my comments all you want.
It's hilarious watching the old timers pull up their skivies and duke it out

 

[Sol]

There were quite a few stretch of games where Faust and Foxy were commenting on how he was making Kopitar and Kempe better. I remember a couple of away team broadcasts that were commenting on how if he keeps developing he will be a force. He hasn't been effective yet from a scoring standpoint, but is definitely showing capability of driving the play and assisting on some key goals. He did not look out of place on that line and got some valuable experience in the playoffs as far as the level you need to raise your game in order to be successful.

I like what i'm seeing statistically:

2021-22 he was 40GP - 5G - 5A and a -7
2022-23 he was 53GP - 3G - 19A and a +13
2022-23 (Playoffs) was 6GP - 1G - 3A

It's easy to overlook how he's 20 years old, 6'5" tall and will probably fill out to 230+. He has speed and he has an ability to set up goals and finish. Just needs to put it all together. Who else in the league do you know with those attributes that has a higher ceiling?

I'm not against trading him. If we can put together something good, I'd rather lose him than Vilardi or Clarke. Has to be really good.

He said a piece - I don't know a one-for-one straight up suggestion that would be fair.


Not directed at me, but...
- he's matured how he fights for pucks. He no longer does fly-bys all the time
- he's reading plays better. Getting into position to create scoring chances for himself (albeit not converted yet) but also faster with his decision-making to move the puck
- he has won board battles with multiple people on him
- while he still has good speed, as he's always had, he's not using that as his only tool.
- I think he's shown a high panic threshold.

Frankly, the worst part of his game has been his shots not going in. And I'm banking on him working on it during the offseason, because during the season, it's hard to get that kind of dedicated practice in (as usually practices focus on team play, positioning, reads, and systemic execution).

Here’s the thing it’s hard to know if he’s doing better with Kopitar centering him. Iafallo made Kopitars line better too so i don’t put much stock into line chemistry vs individual skillset at all.

I want to know what you see from Byfield that is very promising. I think he has good speed and he makes some good passes every now and then.

I think you guys are conflating the Kopitar effect and a bit of nhl game maturity to “this guys ceiling his high”. What do you guys see with Byfield that makes you think he has a high ceiling?

He’s got good speed and decent vision. What else?

 

[deaderhead28]

The Bookmark feature is kind cool.
I just started using it on this thread.
Some of the worst takes I have ever seen are the ones on Byfield being a bust after he finshed the season on L1 as LW and TMac never even came out from under the toll bridge and put the gate down, until they were about to get eliminated.
Like Kempe and Vilardi he is learning to play on the defensive side of the puck, doing the little things correct, playing the boards cycling, maintaining the possession and making nice passes to his to his perfect mentors.
Like Kempe and Vilardi the offensive statistic breakout will follow.
Trading him, especially for PLD is a tenure ending GM mistake.
Ignore my comments all you want.
It's hilarious watching the old timers pull up their skivies and duke it out

No way would I trade Vilardi for PLD. Vilardi can score and make his line better.