Speculation: LA Kings Offseason Thread

[tny760]

Padres,

 

[Sol]

See. This is an example of what I'm talking about.

I basically agree. But because I said "It's not all on the coach" you just assume I'm not critical of Tmac regarding Kopitar's usage. Fact is, I AM critical of his usage, I'm just pointing out it's not ALL on the coaching staff.

It's funny because I feel like I've been complaining about the Kings' player usage philosophy long before it was cool.

Way back when the narrative was "Kopitar needs a scoring winger" I was saying he actually needed a center to take some of his duties.

Who was putting Kopitar out on the ice and giving him 22+ mins plus a game ? Are you implying the same player who was extremely gassed was begging the coach to go out on the ice ?

And please stop praising yourself in every post when you have some bizarre takes that you try to mask with pseudo-intellectual logical.

 

[FrozenKing18]

It's not just Byfield, though. Look at the f***ery all the top picks go through.

-Clarke--best metrics on the team, then they decided to move him to the left (to bail themselves out of a problem of their own creation), he stuttered, they shipped him to the AHL TO NOT PLAY for a month, then to juniors. The f*** are we doing here?
-Byfield, and Herby covered Turcotte;
-Bjornfot--played an entire NHL season in the big league then...just doesn't anymore.
-Kaliyev--leading PP scorer, gotta stay on the 4th line and grind his way up I guess.
-Fagemo--bides his time, scores in limited minutes, back to the minors forever.
-Spence--barely allowed a cup of coffee, have to give those minutes to Walker, Durzi...oh wait, those guys are no longer with the team? huh. Thank goodness we also had Mark Alt, Christian Wolanin....
-Kupari--he might be nothing but what is he supposed to do without a defined role, like why draft a toolsy top sixer and play him as such in the AHL then give him halftime in limited minutes on the 4th line
-Vilardi--may be the only one I'm willing to give them rope on due to the injury but it's looking more and more like they couldn't deal with his fire
-JAD/Grundstrom--sure let's just kick you around because it's more important for us to have MacEwen and Frk and Luff and Wagner in those spots than for you to develop and oh wait those guys are no longer with the team? huh.
-Clague--ended up being a whole lot of nothing either but does anyone remember how much this guy was getting dicked around? I was pissed and vocal about that at the time and ended up being right about it being a harbinger of how the org handles kids unfortunately.

Look how long it took them to figure out what to do with Kempe, for instance.

Like no, they're not all going to pan out. And once in a while, it's okay to have a weird development path. But it's ALL of them going thru weird shit and roster depth hazing, and ALL of them are struggling. It's not 'luck' or coincidence when that's the case. THAT IS ONE ENTIRE DECADE OF 1ST AND 2ND ROUND PICKS accounted for. If it were just luck, where's the 'good luck' version of a guy defying expectations and shitty deployment and succeeding anyway? It doesn't exist because any time a guy starts to break thru, they get buried. Bad development, bad deployment is why we are here.

Agree with all this. I've always thought the utilization of the younger players has always been an issue. I'm always left wondering how much better these kids would be if they are inserted into positions to succeed and polish their strengths rather than turning them into something they're clearly not.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

forgot to take a closer look at his skillset like Nick Richie.

Ah yes, because we've totally seen Nick Ritchie make passes like this. And Ritchie totally has the skill to score between the legs goals like the one Byfield scored here at 1:20.

Again, I can understand being disappointed/underwhelmed with Byfield so far and I understand that comparing Byfield's skill level to Nick Ritchie was hyperbole......

But let's not act like Byfield isn't a skilled player. And let's especially not act like that was remotely the case on draft day. That's ridiculous. At the draft, he was regarded (almost universally) as a big, SKILLED center who was a great skater. There's a reason he was ranked as a top prospect by every single person in the hockey world - And that reason wasn't just 'oh he's big'. He made a ton of highlight reel plays in Junior and was seen as having an elite skillset.

He's also made highlight reel plays in the AHL and NHL - I'll admit, those plays have been pretty rare, but we have seen it.

I know we're deep into the offseason and obviously right now it looks like they should've gone with Stutzle at 2 but come on now.

He's a skilled player, a great skater, and has great size. If he starts playing with more confidence, the production will come. If not, he'll continue to disappoint. It's pretty simple.

 

[Scottkmlps]

It's not just Byfield, though. Look at the f***ery all the top picks go through.

-Clarke--best metrics on the team, then they decided to move him to the left (to bail themselves out of a problem of their own creation), he stuttered, they shipped him to the AHL TO NOT PLAY for a month, then to juniors. The f*** are we doing here?
-Byfield, and Herby covered Turcotte;
-Bjornfot--played an entire NHL season in the big league then...just doesn't anymore.
-Kaliyev--leading PP scorer, gotta stay on the 4th line and grind his way up I guess.
-Fagemo--bides his time, scores in limited minutes, back to the minors forever.
-Spence--barely allowed a cup of coffee, have to give those minutes to Walker, Durzi...oh wait, those guys are no longer with the team? huh. Thank goodness we also had Mark Alt, Christian Wolanin....
-Kupari--he might be nothing but what is he supposed to do without a defined role, like why draft a toolsy top sixer and play him as such in the AHL then give him halftime in limited minutes on the 4th line
-Vilardi--may be the only one I'm willing to give them rope on due to the injury but it's looking more and more like they couldn't deal with his fire
-JAD/Grundstrom--sure let's just kick you around because it's more important for us to have MacEwen and Frk and Luff and Wagner in those spots than for you to develop and oh wait those guys are no longer with the team? huh.
-Clague--ended up being a whole lot of nothing either but does anyone remember how much this guy was getting dicked around? I was pissed and vocal about that at the time and ended up being right about it being a harbinger of how the org handles kids unfortunately.

Look how long it took them to figure out what to do with Kempe, for instance.

Like no, they're not all going to pan out. And once in a while, it's okay to have a weird development path. But it's ALL of them going thru weird shit and roster depth hazing, and ALL of them are struggling. It's not 'luck' or coincidence when that's the case. THAT IS ONE ENTIRE DECADE OF 1ST AND 2ND ROUND PICKS accounted for. If it were just luck, where's the 'good luck' version of a guy defying expectations and shitty deployment and succeeding anyway? It doesn't exist because any time a guy starts to break thru, they get buried. Bad development, bad deployment is why we are here.

The best thing I've read on here all summer. It's like they're afraid the youth will develop into what they were projected to be, so they just f**k it up on purpose.

 

[kingsfan28]

It's not just Byfield, though. Look at the f***ery all the top picks go through.

-Clarke--best metrics on the team, then they decided to move him to the left (to bail themselves out of a problem of their own creation), he stuttered, they shipped him to the AHL TO NOT PLAY for a month, then to juniors. The f*** are we doing here?
-Byfield, and Herby covered Turcotte;
-Bjornfot--played an entire NHL season in the big league then...just doesn't anymore.
-Kaliyev--leading PP scorer, gotta stay on the 4th line and grind his way up I guess.
-Fagemo--bides his time, scores in limited minutes, back to the minors forever.
-Spence--barely allowed a cup of coffee, have to give those minutes to Walker, Durzi...oh wait, those guys are no longer with the team? huh. Thank goodness we also had Mark Alt, Christian Wolanin....
-Kupari--he might be nothing but what is he supposed to do without a defined role, like why draft a toolsy top sixer and play him as such in the AHL then give him halftime in limited minutes on the 4th line
-Vilardi--may be the only one I'm willing to give them rope on due to the injury but it's looking more and more like they couldn't deal with his fire
-JAD/Grundstrom--sure let's just kick you around because it's more important for us to have MacEwen and Frk and Luff and Wagner in those spots than for you to develop and oh wait those guys are no longer with the team? huh.
-Clague--ended up being a whole lot of nothing either but does anyone remember how much this guy was getting dicked around? I was pissed and vocal about that at the time and ended up being right about it being a harbinger of how the org handles kids unfortunately.

Look how long it took them to figure out what to do with Kempe, for instance.

Like no, they're not all going to pan out. And once in a while, it's okay to have a weird development path. But it's ALL of them going thru weird shit and roster depth hazing, and ALL of them are struggling. It's not 'luck' or coincidence when that's the case. THAT IS ONE ENTIRE DECADE OF 1ST AND 2ND ROUND PICKS accounted for. If it were just luck, where's the 'good luck' version of a guy defying expectations and shitty deployment and succeeding anyway? It doesn't exist because any time a guy starts to break thru, they get buried. Bad development, bad deployment is why we are here.

Solid assessment except for Kaliyev. I want the guy to succeed so bad, you can tell the smarts aren't there. He takes a couple of great steps then takes 5 back. Get's put on the top two lines for a while, makes the same dumb mistakes . Puck goes into the left corner, his job is to cover the guy in the middle. What does he do, peels off to the right corner , expecting the puck to go there, leaving his man wide up in the slot and they score. These are junior level mistakes. He needs to get past these things or all he's going to be a is a pp specialist.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Stuff's getting better everyday.

 

[johnjm22]

allow me to rephrase

who is it on if NOT the coach?

The opposing coach is going to have influence on matchups obviously.

Excessive TOI and PK you can more directly put on Todd, but in his defense the Kings have obviously been lacking a center that gives them 3 fully functioning top 3 lines.

Just want to point out that you've still never said which teams are better, when asked.

And you ignored when the Kings actually were putting up good goaltenders, and how Jack Campbell pointed out how Dusty Imoo basically resuscitated his life after Dallas mishandled him and turned him into a goaltender.

It's very similar to you handwaving a majority of draft success to "luck."

Just because the goaltending started going downhill doesn't mean you were right. There have been changes over the years.

IIRC, you asked me how many teams were better. I said "15" or something. The implication being that LA is probably average.

It's not really a quanitifiable thing IMO. I can't "prove" anything in this argument. As I've said many times, I think goaltending success is heavily influenced by team play, and I think that's the PRIMARY reason for the Kings having so much success with goalies for a stretch of time. Apparently you feel it has more to do with coaching.

Yes I do think there's a lot of luck involved in drafting. I don't think people like hearing that. I don't think it's ALL luck/chance/randomness.

But this is beside the point I was trying to make when responding to SOL. I don't defend all of what the Kings do development wise. That was my point.

Who was putting Kopitar out on the ice and giving him 22+ mins plus a game ? Are you implying the same player who was extremely gassed was begging the coach to go out on the ice ?

And please stop praising yourself in every post when you have some bizarre takes that you try to mask with pseudo-intellectual logical.

If you look at the original post I said "matchups" referring to the fact that he was in the 100% percentile in that area on a popular analytical model.

I do think you can blame Todd more directly for the excess TOI and PK usage.


I will try and be less annoying.

 

[King'sPawn]

IIRC, you asked me how many teams were better. I said "15" or something. The implication being that LA is probably average.

It's not really a quanitifiable thing IMO. I can't "prove" anything in this argument. As I've said many times, I think goaltending success is heavily influenced by team play, and I think that's the PRIMARY reason for the Kings having so much success with goalies for a stretch of time. Apparently you feel it has more to do with coaching.

You said 15. I'm pretty sure I still asked you to provide which teams you think are better, of which no teams were provided.

If you want to argue goaltending success is heavily reliant on team play, I'm in agreement. But that doesn't undo the fact that the goaltending development was putting goalies in to be a part of the good team, instead of having good teams succeed in spite of bad goaltending.

The Kings did plenty of the former. They churned out goalies who worked and fit with the team, and succeeded.

I just don't understand patting yourself on the back for "being among the first and most vocal disagreements of the Kings' goaltending development" when you haven't named any teams who are better, listed what a team with good goaltending development does, or mentioned what the Kings could do better to develop their goaltending. Or, if you feel development has nothing to do with a goalie's success, I just don't see how it could be qualified as good, bad, or average if the coaching team is ultimately meaningless.

 

[johnjm22]

You said 15. I'm pretty sure I still asked you to provide which teams you think are better, of which no teams were provided.

If you want to argue goaltending success is heavily reliant on team play, I'm in agreement. But that doesn't undo the fact that the goaltending development was putting goalies in to be a part of the good team, instead of having good teams succeed in spite of bad goaltending.

The Kings did plenty of the former. They churned out goalies who worked and fit with the team, and succeeded.

I just don't understand patting yourself on the back for "being among the first and most vocal disagreements of the Kings' goaltending development" when you haven't named any teams who are better, listed what a team with good goaltending development does, or mentioned what the Kings could do better to develop their goaltending. Or, if you feel development has nothing to do with a goalie's success, I just don't see how it could be qualified as good, bad, or average if the coaching team is ultimately meaningless.

I'm not patting myself on the back. I brought it up to point out that I don't always defend the Kings development.

I didn't say development has NOTHING to do with it. I didn't say coaching is meaningless.

I can't give you a list of which teams I think are better. There's no way to actually quantify how good a coach is or development is. It's not something that's really provable. And even if it was we wouldn't know from the outside.

I think goaltending success largely correlates to team play (but not always). I think it's observable. You seem to agree with that statement but give more credence to coaching that I do.

I doubt the Kings could have done much of anything better.

 

[Surf Nutz]

Who was putting Kopitar out on the ice and giving him 22+ mins plus a game ? Are you implying the same player who was extremely gassed was begging the coach to go out on the ice ?

And please stop praising yourself in every post when you have some bizarre takes that you try to mask with pseudo-intellectual logical.

Good point about Lopi's ice time.

However JM, often but not always is light years ahead of your Greg Lougainis of the Planet of the Apes comments.

 

[Sol]

Good point about Lopi's ice time.

However JM, often but not always is light years ahead of your Greg Lougainis of the Planet of the Apes comments.

Lol I like how you not only comment to me on threads but you also PM me nonstop. If you enjoy JMs posts which are 90% of him pretending to know best, then maybe you should PM him. I know it bothers you that I dunk on you nonstop but you make it too easy. Lol.

 

[Surf Nutz]

Lol I like how you not only comment to me on threads but you also PM me nonstop. If you enjoy JMs posts which are 90% of him pretending to know best, then maybe you should PM him. I know it bothers you that I dunk on you nonstop but you make it too easy. Lol.

Wow now you lie about PM's?

Go ahead and screen shot and post any PM you are talking about.

Kindergarten stuff' lol!

That comment reminds me of Obuma.

You never dunk on me all your attempts are off the rim or airballs!

 

[Sol]

Wow now you lie about PM's?

Go ahead and screen shot and post any PM you are talking about.

Kindergarten stuff' lol!

That comment reminds me of Obuma.

You never dunk on me all your attempts are off the rim or airballs!

You’re gonna pretend like you haven’t PMd me multiple times in the last few months? Obuma? Hitting the gin again?

 

[Surf Nutz]

You’re gonna pretend like you haven’t PMd me multiple times in the last few months? Obuma? Hitting the gin again?

Screen shot and post any one of the fanfic PM's you wish I sent you!

Your comments here are Ringling Brothers and Barnum Bailey material.

 

[Sol]

Screen shot and post any one of the fanfic PM's you wish I sent you!

Your comments here are Ringling Brothers and Barnum Bailey material.

I’m not gonna derail the thread, PM me if you want your screenshots.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Anyone going to Vegas next week? I will be there Friday and Saturday.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Anyone going to Vegas next week? I will be there Friday and Saturday.

I’m on the fence for Melbourne. I’ve looked at tickets and you can get in for like $200 for both games in the cheapest seats available.

I’ve got a grip of rewards points sitting around, so I’m thinking it will be a cool thing to check out.

 

[Cook24]

Any reason why Jacob Doty has been hanging around the team? Saw he did the run this weekend with the Kings at redondo too…

 

[Johnny Utah]

They are bringing him to Australia. He actually made an impression last pre season running Petro in game against the Knights.

Plus, the Kings are soft as shit.

Englund, Doty, Helenius, Hodgson are the only tough players between the NHL and AHL and three are destined for Ontario.

 

[DAkings20]

Kings fly to Australia in a week and they still haven’t announced training camp or broadcast details.

Top notch…

 

[Fishhead]

Kings fly to Australia in a week and they still haven’t announced training camp or broadcast details.

Top notch…

September 21st is their first official practice at TSC, I believe. I heard rookies start on Thursday.

The games are almost always on NHL network. The European ones will be picked up by local channels, but not sure about here other than the league network.

 

[DAkings20]

September 21st is their first official practice at TSC, I believe. I heard rookies start on Thursday.

The games are almost always on NHL network. The European ones will be picked up by local channels, but not sure about here other than the league network.

The Coyotes are flying to Australia on September 16th, there is no way the Kings traveling party will still be in LA on September 21st.

 

[Maynard]

September 21st is their first official practice at TSC, I believe. I heard rookies start on Thursday.

The games are almost always on NHL network. The European ones will be picked up by local channels, but not sure about here other than the league network.

Training camp is soon! I hope some of the hired hobby journalists will be there to ask the coaching staff what their favorite reptile is! They better make sure to not get any footage to share!!

 

[Fishhead]

The Coyotes are flying to Australia on September 16th, there is no way the Kings traveling party will still be in LA on September 21st.

They won't, but I think that's the first day of on-ice practice at TSC. The travelers will probably start in Australia and the first groups here will be those that stay behind. The Coyotes main squad is beginning in Australia, while their rookie camp is also this week.