Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[Sol]

If we all agree with Yanetti that picks are capital….

You believe the ROI has been sufficient and that the picks have come to fruition like Robitaille said?

Gabe Vilardi is entering his age 23 season, is waiver eligible and looked like a classic AAAA player. He can produce in the minors but looks noticeably slow and behind the play at the NHL level. This was a player taken #11 overall. Players taken after him are captaining teams, centering 1st lines and being signed to franchise player contracts.

Alex Turcotte enters his D+4 age 21 season as a likely AHL player after being a #5 overall pick, #5 overall! How is this not a huuuuge failure based on the draft capital used on him? Players taken after him are beginning to emerge as in some cases star players in the league. What is a reasonable expectation for a player taken this high? And no, it’s not all injuries, the massive red flags about ceiling and upside were visible long before he started getting concussed in the AHL and before the poor development choice. Have injuries hurt him? Yes. Did being pulled from school hurt him? Yes. But this was not a player who was going to return what was paid for in draft capital.

Which again is his point. If you go to a car dealership with 60k and leave with a Toyota Camry it’s not a success. Is the Camry useful? Sure. But it’s not a good return on what you paid.

Playing games doesn’t mean anything, I thought it was a bit ridiculous when Ziggy used that too. That is what people used to do when they defended DL’a drafting by citing guys like Shore and Forbort as successful picks because they played games. When you draft in the top 11 four times in 5 years you have to produce big-time results or it’s a failure. Playing games but looking terrible is not an accomplishment.

Who is going to be this teams Doughty/Kopitar, Kane/Toews, Stamkos/Hedman/, Crosby/Malkin?

Is the plan to just hope that Auston Matthews wants out of the pressure cooker in Toronto and that LA is the best destination? At this point I think that might be LA’s best chance to find a true superstar to replace what AK and DD were for a decade and a half. If not that, there is just a ton of pressure on QB to be the next Kopitar that the team will need to be successful. I’m not saying that’s out of the question but it’s one guy left.

And his example isn’t wrong, if you were in the real world, in the private sector and had results this poor from your big investments you would likely be fired by now. I don’t deny the successes of the later rounds but finding 2nd pair defenders in the 4th round and 3rd and 4th line forwards as UDFA is great and deserves praise, but those don’t mean much if the big ticket investments that you spent a ton on don’t come close to returning value. Blake as GM has a bigger area to be judged from, and the FA and trades make it easier to believe in Blake, but the scouting is more black and white, either the results are there or they aren’t.

The thing is, they actually are capital because if their investments don’t pan out the team will suffer in many ways. This is what I don’t really get on here. Do people only care about ROI on penny stocks or and not care about the ROI on your biggest investment? It’s bizarre to me. Kings are missing hard on their biggest investments. You can’t hold a job like that.

It's just a constant denial of possibility. After a year of possibilities. There's no way Kempe is scoring 35. He barely scored 35 over the last 3 seasons combined. He hasn't done it, so he won't do it. There's no way Danault is scoring 27. He's coming off 5 goals, and barely has 27 over the last 3 years. He hasn't done it, so he won't do it. There's no way the Kings can make the playoffs if Doughty misses half the season. They don't have the kind of depth to overcome something like that. They can barely make the playoffs with him, so without him, they're twice as bad.

There's no way ice time might change. It was one way one year, and cannot possibly be any different in another year. Not that it will, but there's no way it could. Because it didn't happen, so it can't. A young guy, he didn't play well last year, so he's got no chance of playing well this year, because he had a bad year. You can't have a good year after a bad year. The only thing that can happen is what happened. You can 100% have a bad year after a good year though. The only type of change that can happen is bad.

This is my last response to you on the matter.

I’m not being negative for the sake of being negative. I was very excited last year before the season started because I felt like this was going to be the time the prospects make a hard effort to take the reigns and essentially signify the passing of the torch. None of that happened. Not even close. Most of them took a step back. That’s why I’m not excited. Do the Kings have a better team this year? Yes. But it’s not better through the youth movement. It’s better because of external acquisitions. I want the Kings to be really good but there’s a right way to do it. And this doesn’t seem right to me.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Hey Jesse.
Would it be possible to ask the staff / media to get the ACTUAL camp weigh-ins and measurements and update the site? Biggest errors:
1. Iafallo 6'0" 200. I think he's 5'10.5 180
2. Akil Thomas 5'11" 185 He's more like 6'1" 200
3. Kupari 6'2" 200. He's more like 6'3" 210
4. Kopitar 6'3" 225 Think he's 6'4" 240. (unless he trimmed down this Summer)

They finally made Kaliyev, 6'2" 210. A few months ago, he was listed at 6'1" 190.
Would love to know Byfield's actual weighin and height. the 6'5" 220 is the current listing.
Look forward to your upcoming reports!

I'm just gonna go ahead and assume this is brilliant satire.

 

[King'sPawn]

Nick Suzuki, to me the definition of a "championship caliber 2C". He just does everything, he isn't a star scorer or a Selke caliber center but he does everything well playing a 200 foot game. He was so impressive as a 21 year old in their cup finals run despite being barely old enough to buy a beer. Truly amazing considering he spent no time in the AHL.

Montreal has that spot locked up for the next 8 years, and I suspect that they will find their likely 1C in one of the next 2 drafts. It'll be a slow climb back but if they can end up with a guy like Fantilli (Bedard would require some lottery luck) this season that is a really nice group of high end forwards all under 24.

Nick Suzuki would have been my pick if Vilardi wasn't available.

I thought he was very much like Richards before the concussion, though maybe not as impactful.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I’m not being negative for the sake of being negative. I was very excited last year before the season started because I felt like this was going to be the time the prospects make a hard effort to take the reigns and essentially signify the passing of the torch. None of that happened. Not even close. Most of them took a step back. That’s why I’m not excited. Do the Kings have a better team this year? Yes. But it’s not better through the youth movement. It’s better because of external acquisitions. I want the Kings to be really good but there’s a right way to do it. And this doesn’t seem right to me.

I'm not sure why I'm even responding to this as I have very little respect for your opinions around here as I think most of them are horse****....however, this one make me think a little bit.

So you are basically saying you aren't 'excited' about this coming year because the team is not developing in the way that you feel is correct. That's totally legit, I think I can follow you, but then I would ask are you still a fan then? I mean that's an honest question, no? The reality is, from what I've read from you, this team is certainly not going to build in the way that you see fit...so what are you going to do? Sit in misery year after year or accept the fact that there are things in this world that you can change nor do you have any say in?

Will you ever have the ability to just appreciate what it is?

 

[Sol]

I'm not sure why I'm even responding to this as I have very little respect for your opinions around here as I think most of them are horse****....however, this one make me think a little bit.

So you are basically saying you aren't 'excited' about this coming year because the team is not developing in the way that you feel is correct. That's totally legit, I think I can follow you, but then I would ask are you still a fan then? I mean that's an honest question, no? The reality is, from what I've read from you, this team is certainly not going to build in the way that you see fit...so what are you going to do? Sit in misery year after year or accept the fact that there are things in this world that you can change nor do you have any say in?

Will you ever have the ability to just appreciate what it is?

Giving up is not something I do. Just because I don’t like it doesn’t mean I have to throw away all the years I’ve watched this team as a kid growing up. Seen some really bad years as a kings fan. Nothing new. You don’t see teams building winning teams the way the kings are going about it. Just doesn’t work that way. There is much contention on here for a reason.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Giving up is not something I do. Just because I don’t like it doesn’t mean I have to throw away all the years I’ve watched this team as a kid growing up. Seen some really bad years as a kings fan. Nothing new. You don’t see teams building winning teams the way the kings are going about it. Just doesn’t work that way. There is much contention on here for a reason.

But, last year and what looks to be this year are NOT going to be 'really bad years'....there's a very big difference there. What is your definition of a bad year?

The contention is minimal, very few posters question the direction of the team and that is proven by the most recent poll.

 

[bland]

He was gift wrapped a 2nd line C spot despite not being able to skate effectively enough to play that position in the NHL. And played almost the entire season. Blake thought so much if his performance that he signed Danault and moved Vilardi to the wing. So it wasn’t just TM’s doing.

And maybe it wasn’t his fault, maybe the back injury was the reason, but whatever the reason there aren’t many guys who skate as bad who playing in the league anymore. And the ones who do are mostly 4th line physical forwards and large crease clearing defenders. Not finesse scorers.

Unfortunately for Vilardi he was born about 20-25 years to late. He’d have been useful from 95-2004.

This is the crux of my disagreement with your line of thinking: Vilardi wasn't struggling to play in the NHL at all, he was struggling to play at the level of a team expected to compete for the playoffs, which is completely absurd given the fact that they were at the beginning of a rebuild on a team that had gone years without ant measurable success.

That hasn't changed - every skilled prospect has met the same fate. Little ice time, especially in important situations, because they still believe in the quality of the vets and want them to have another (and another and another and another) shot at a Cup despite not being able to win a playoff series in 8 years and never without Richards, Sutter, Williams, Mitchell, etc.

Its piss poor management and not one, not one single skilled prospect had been given the opportunity to play their game in their role until 6 other defenders failed and Durzi was brought in.

Making the playoffs via buying a 2nd line is false growth. The vets are still slowly fading, the kids aren't progressing quickly enough, and the strength of prime role players won't get you further than they got last year.

We already know that the enthusiasm the vets get from the new blood only lasts one year. There is a lot of pressure on Fiala to be a difference maker, and he only has one season of really top notch play and that was as a 2nd liner in a role that required no defense and no real pressure. Its going to be interesting to see how he responds.

 

[Lt Dan]

We will hold you to that.

If you are wrong as punishment you will have to stream my nephew's piano recital. And he's awful.

Redcard is the funniest person here.

Thanks for all the laughs my friend!

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This is the crux of my disagreement with your line of thinking: Vilardi wasn't struggling to play in the NHL at all, he was struggling to play at the level of a team expected to compete for the playoffs, which is completely absurd given the fact that they were at the beginning of a rebuild on a team that had gone years without ant measurable success.

That hasn't changed - every skilled prospect has met the same fate. Little ice time, especially in important situations, because they still believe in the quality of the vets and want them to have another (and another and another and another) shot at a Cup despite not being able to win a playoff series in 8 years and never without Richards, Sutter, Williams, Mitchell, etc.

Its piss poor management and not one, not one single skilled prospect had been given the opportunity to play their game in their role until 6 other defenders failed and Durzi was brought in.

Making the playoffs via buying a 2nd line is false growth. The vets are still slowly fading, the kids aren't progressing quickly enough, and the strength of prime role players won't get you further than they got last year.

We already know that the enthusiasm the vets get from the new blood only lasts one year. There is a lot of pressure on Fiala to be a difference maker, and he only has one season of really top notch play and that was as a 2nd liner in a role that required no defense and no real pressure. Its going to be interesting to see how he responds.

I can't wait to see their surprised Pikachu expressions when they realize he can't play defense.

The question is just will they treat him like a rookie or Kovalchuk/Cammalleri or if they'll treat him like Iafallo/Brown.

 

[Lt Dan]

I can't wait to see their surprised Pikachu expressions when they realize he can't play defense.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Welp...f***

 

[Little Psycho]

Sweet baby Jesus and the grown one too.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I can't wait to see their surprised Pikachu expressions when they realize he can't play defense.

The question is just will they treat him like a rookie or Kovalchuk/Cammalleri or if they'll treat him like Iafallo/Brown.

Naw, probably just give him the Kaliyev treatment, and then watch as the city burns.....

 

[bland]

Blake has this team in a fantastic position going into the year with the possibility of making a pretty big splash at the deadline, as well:

So they CAN sign Thompson to a 1 year $1mil deal...

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

So they CAN sign Thompson to a 1 year $1mil deal...

 

[Herby]

This is the crux of my disagreement with your line of thinking: Vilardi wasn't struggling to play in the NHL at all, he was struggling to play at the level of a team expected to compete for the playoffs, which is completely absurd given the fact that they were at the beginning of a rebuild on a team that had gone years without ant measurable success.

That hasn't changed - every skilled prospect has met the same fate. Little ice time, especially in important situations, because they still believe in the quality of the vets and want them to have another (and another and another and another) shot at a Cup despite not being able to win a playoff series in 8 years and never without Richards, Sutter, Williams, Mitchell, etc.

Its piss poor management and not one, not one single skilled prospect had been given the opportunity to play their game in their role until 6 other defenders failed and Durzi was brought in.

Making the playoffs via buying a 2nd line is false growth. The vets are still slowly fading, the kids aren't progressing quickly enough, and the strength of prime role players won't get you further than they got last year.

We already know that the enthusiasm the vets get from the new blood only lasts one year. There is a lot of pressure on Fiala to be a difference maker, and he only has one season of really top notch play and that was as a 2nd liner in a role that required no defense and no real pressure. Its going to be interesting to see how he responds.

The 20-21 Kings were not trying to make the playoffs, he was given a spot in a low pressure situation (that should have been given to QB) and he just did nothing with those 56 games to show that he was going to be a scoring line player in the NHL. Last year, sure they were expecting to make the playoffs and it became painfully apparent that Vilardi was never going to be able to play C effectively in the NHL.

He is 23 years old with 91 games of NHL experience. He is not a kid anymore. And again, just like no one on the pro-Blake everything crowd can answer why other teams can develop players without AHL time, none of the pro-Vilardi people can explain why Gabe Vilardi will buck the trend and be able to be an effective player in the league despite being a horrible skater. It's a skating league now, everyone entering and being drafted can move. How many players who would be described as scorers or offensive players skate as bad as him? Getzlaf retired, did Thornton retire? Is Perry still around? These are the types of players his skating is comparable too, people get on Kopitar, even at his advanced age Kopitar still skates significantly better than Vilardi. You know I agree with most everything you believe, but you also have to just come to the conclusion that some of these guys are going to be misses, and this is very likely to be a miss. 1st round picks who aren't hits by 23 are long-shots to begin with, and you factor in the skating and his chances of making it in the league are just extremely slim.

 

[BringTheReign]

Welp...f***

This is f***ing brutal.

 

[kilowatt]

Welp...f***

god dammit

 

[Herby]

Welp...f***

I was hoping when he posted the pics lifting weights at the USA Hockey facility in Michigan that he had been able to exercise strenuously without headaches.

I hate to speculate, but usually when its time to return from concussions they ramp it up, and when guys are ruled out again it means the headaches returned when they ramped it up.

This is sadly starting to feel like the Allison/Deadmarsh situation. I feel really terrible for the kid, only 8 NHL game-checks at this point. I hope Brisson set him up with a decent insurance policy, which I think they do normally do.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Someone that is a gifted Thread Starter - can we have a 'Rookie Camp - Scrimmages thread?'
I would not create anything fancy and lack details.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I was hoping when he posted the pics lifting weights at the USA Hockey facility in Michigan that he had been able to exercise strenuously without headaches.

I hate to speculate, but usually when its time to return from concussions they ramp it up, and when guys are ruled out again it means the headaches returned when they ramped it up.

This is sadly starting to feel like the Allison/Deadmarsh situation. I feel really terrible for the kid, only 8 NHL game-checks at this point. I hope Brisson set him up with a decent insurance policy, which I think they do normally do.

Just wondering if this is a Bo Byram thing where he just needs time away from the rink altogether to make it work.

But details are vague, maybe it's not a setback, maybe he just wasn't ready to get on-ice.

Little reminders of Byram's concerns too:

Report: Avalanche's Byram told father, 'I can't play and feel like this'

Colorado Avalanche defenceman Bo Byram stepped away from the team because of concussion symptoms, his father told Adrian Dater at Colorado Hockey Now on Wednesday.

www.sportsnet.ca

Dizzy, foggy and feeling 'like I was a corpse': Inside Bowen Byram's harrowing first year with the Avalanche

Byram dealt with two concussions, COVID-19 and vertigo during his first months as an NHL player. Now he's facing another concussion.

theathletic.com

Not all concussions are built the same of course but just the work and setbacks, steps forward and steps back, are such a rollercoaster. And Turcotte's 2nd one...I can barely watch that anymore, the way he just stumbles and slides.

 

[KingsFan7824]

This is my last response to you on the matter.

I’m not being negative for the sake of being negative. I was very excited last year before the season started because I felt like this was going to be the time the prospects make a hard effort to take the reigns and essentially signify the passing of the torch. None of that happened. Not even close. Most of them took a step back. That’s why I’m not excited. Do the Kings have a better team this year? Yes. But it’s not better through the youth movement. It’s better because of external acquisitions. I want the Kings to be really good but there’s a right way to do it. And this doesn’t seem right to me.

I've never said you're negative for the sake of it. You just offer them no room for alternate futures. None of the young guys took the torch last year, so it can't happen this year either. It won't happen. Petersen was garbage last year, so he'll be garbage again. He can't work on any part of his game and come back to play well. He's just a dud forever.

You can't do anything about injuries. If Turcotte can't stay healthy, you can't assume that variable will be in the mix. The world keeps spinning. At this point, he's an extra bonus. It be what it be.

 

[Sol]

I've never said you're negative for the sake of it. You just offer them no room for alternate futures. None of the young guys took the torch last year, so it can't happen this year either. It won't happen. Petersen was garbage last year, so he'll be garbage again. He can't work on any part of his game and come back to play well. He's just a dud forever.

I mean I could be more lenient to alternatives if the prospects showed fight, and if petersen at some point regained his composure. There was no positives whatsoever for me to seriously entertain an alternative.

If you read the rangers board they were optimistic about KK because they drafted him so high. They all acknowledged he didn’t look good but they chalked it up to him being young. And he never got much better at all. You have to see positives in their games in order to even entertain a positive future shift.

I saw nothing positive outside of Kaliyev and Kupari from young forwards. How is it hard to understand why I see it as such?

I was probably the most excited before the start of last season because I was sure I’d see something positive. Then nothing happened and now I’m just telling you I don’t see why I should repeat the same mentality when there was nothing to show for it ?

 

[Schrute farms]

So a guy breaking out after five years is a kudos for the management? Hey, it only took Danault to be almost 30 before he broke out. Must be that Blake magic.

The issue with Kempe is the Kings had the luxury to wait 7 years after he was drafted because they had a relatively empty cupboard and their core players were younger.

Waiting 7 years for players to pan out when players start hitting the waiver wire usually within 5 years after being drafted is not a good model when you have multiple top-10 picks and a preference to keep your prospects in the bottom-6. Especially when your core is now considerably older and the organization needs more players to take over.

The biggest criticism is the lack of flexibility. There's nothing inherently wrong with slow-boiling a prospect, when looking at it in a vacuum. But with the Kings' current state, the plan is not a good one to meet their needs.

 

[KINGS17]

I was hoping when he posted the pics lifting weights at the USA Hockey facility in Michigan that he had been able to exercise strenuously without headaches.

I hate to speculate, but usually when its time to return from concussions they ramp it up, and when guys are ruled out again it means the headaches returned when they ramped it up.

This is sadly starting to feel like the Allison/Deadmarsh situation. I feel really terrible for the kid, only 8 NHL game-checks at this point. I hope Brisson set him up with a decent insurance policy, which I think they do normally do.

I feel bad for Turcotte.

With it being like a Allison/Deadmarsh situation at least we know he will be back by Christmas.