Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[Chazz Reinhold]

He's gonna be good. Just needs the minutes, like every other prospect in the system.

I would expect then that he will be neither in the AHL nor the starting lineup in the NHL. Seems like the most logical development path the Kings will choose based on recent history.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Eric Stephens just announced that he's officially the new Kings writer for the Athletic.

Seems weird being the Ducks writer as well, but his stuff has been good so far...better than Dillman.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I actually don't think JAD has looked bad when he's been up here. Not a world-beater, but he's also just not had much opportunity (a familiar theme).

What type of impact are we expecting from Kupari's overall career? Middle-six forward? Here are some other mid-first round picks (forwards) sent down to the AHL after 60+ NHL games:
Owen Tippett (94 games)
Filip Chytil (84 games)
Tyson Jost (after 71 and another 70 games)
Lawson Crouse (83 games)
Joel Eriksson-Ek (90 games)
Sonny Milano (he keeps bouncing between leagues)
Valeri Nichushkin (79 games, and even went back to Europe)
Curtis Lazar

Most of them are short stints, but players DO go back. Keep in mind the list above only covers forwards drafted between picks 10-21 between the 2013 and 2017 draft. Very small sample. Not uncommon. Again, GMs leverage waiver eligibility so they don't lose players unnecessarily.

Kupari is a good player with some potential still. But the Kings need to start opening up opportunities for them, as Kupari, Thomas, and others are waiver eligible next season.

But see, again, people are missing the forest for the trees. It's not about JUST JAD or Kupari, it's that the clock is ticking on so, so many of them and we can't even find space for the top/oldest ones since the org is busy playing waiver games. JAD didn't go back because he sucked and he wasn't not called up because he sucked. Maybe Kupari did and that's fine because he was a different player when he came back up, and we've seen that plenty in the past with guys like Martinez etc. It's not a complaint about guys getting exposure or a cup of coffee then going down to learn more, it's about misuse and mismanagement and "sorry we're benching you even though you've scored 3 games in a row" and "sorry we're sending you down becasue this other guy is waiver eligible and sorry we're not calling you back up even though you're our top PP goal scorer in the AHL and we have a shitty PP because other guys are waiver eligible." Systematic oversight.

It's about JAD, Vilardi, possibly Durzi (and peripherally guys like Kupari who TECHNICALLY can go thru waivers but like, what are we doing) right now and by next year projected Kupari, Bjornfot, Fagemo, Kaliyev (unless they maneuver his games), Madden, Akil Thomas. Sure someone's gonna get moved, but why run out the clock and tank their values?

We can twist ourselves into knots explaining away why one guy didn't/shouldn't/it's-okay-if-he-doesn't make the roster...but we're talking about basically ALL the forward prospects at this point and the only reason the dmen aren't the same way is because of last year's near-historic injury run.

I'm just repeating myself at this point and really there's nothing left to do but see what happens next but if the Kings don't intend to make some minutes to develop prospects properly they need to start moving them before it's too late.

 

[cyclones22]

But see, again, people are missing the forest for the trees. It's not about JUST JAD or Kupari, it's that the clock is ticking on so, so many of them and we can't even find space for the top/oldest ones since the org is busy playing waiver games.

Been banging this drum for a while now. Wait till the following offseason when another batch of highly touted prospects have nowhere to go because they've all been marinating in the AHL until they're waiver eligible.

 

[King'sPawn]

But see, again, people are missing the forest for the trees. It's not about JUST JAD or Kupari, it's that the clock is ticking on so, so many of them and we can't even find space for the top/oldest ones since the org is busy playing waiver games. JAD didn't go back because he sucked and he wasn't not called up because he sucked. Maybe Kupari did and that's fine because he was a different player when he came back up, and we've seen that plenty in the past with guys like Martinez etc. It's not a complaint about guys getting exposure or a cup of coffee then going down to learn more, it's about misuse and mismanagement and "sorry we're benching you even though you've scored 3 games in a row" and "sorry we're sending you down becasue this other guy is waiver eligible and sorry we're not calling you back up even though you're our top PP goal scorer in the AHL and we have a shitty PP because other guys are waiver eligible." Systematic oversight.

It's about JAD, Vilardi, possibly Durzi (and peripherally guys like Kupari who TECHNICALLY can go thru waivers but like, what are we doing) right now and by next year projected Kupari, Bjornfot, Fagemo, Kaliyev (unless they maneuver his games), Madden, Akil Thomas. Sure someone's gonna get moved, but why run out the clock and tank their values?

We can twist ourselves into knots explaining away why one guy didn't/shouldn't/it's-okay-if-he-doesn't make the roster...but we're talking about basically ALL the forward prospects at this point and the only reason the dmen aren't the same way is because of last year's near-historic injury run.

I'm just repeating myself at this point and really there's nothing left to do but see what happens next but if the Kings don't intend to make some minutes to develop prospects properly they need to start moving them before it's too late.

Oh sure, I agree.

I'm just saying sending him down to the AHL after getting 60+ games of experience isn't some kiss of death, or some weird decision that "only the Kings would do" which seemed to be Herby's pain point.

The Kings absolutely need to get their good prospects in the NHL or move them sooner rather than later. Akil Thomas and Tyler Madden should be in the, what we can call, "priority group". There are quality young players who are at risk of being lost to waivers by the start of next season. The Kings need to spend THIS season sorting it out and making tough decisions.

I think @BigKing has said it multiple times, along with others. It's easy to let it ride and gather prospects in the system and getting a good looking pool. Now it's about maintaining that pool where this aspect of his GM mettle is getting tested

 

[KingsFan7824]

No. I could swallow it for 6-8 games if they were finalizing a trade but stunting a players development just to make sure they don’t miss out on getting a 4th rd pick for a waiver wire player tgat can’t even get a spot as the 12th forward has never, ever made sense to me.

I feel exactly the same about Walker btw. If Clarke is ready to go they should send Walker to the AHL, he likely gets claimed and that frees cap space. If not they bury part of his contract and he can prove his fitness in the AHL whilst providing leadership. Training camp needs to be key for all of the fringe players (and I include Durzi in that), they need to earn their spots.

The cap, which was all about cost certainty, makes for a flawed meritocracy. Then when they add in the Redden rule, that's even more incentive to not send anyone making actual money to the AHL. That's why in the vast majority of cases, 1 way contracts are in the NHL. If a team has even one NHL contract in the AHL, even fewer teams have two, and the Kings will already have Wagner down there, with Andersson as another possibility. With Doughty, Roy, Durzi, Spence, and Walker as RD options, how good would Clarke have to be? He can't just be ready, he has to be well above anyone not named Drew.

But, again, this all goes back to the too many options issue. The legit depth is nice. You'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. However, when you have 2-4 players for every position, and multiple players that could potentially play multiple positions, it does breed a kind of undefined nature to the roster. Cluttered might be a good word for it. Maybe Blake is just a hoarder deep down?

Even with the Fiala trade, sending away two future pieces for one, it didn't really clear anything upon the big picture. They still have a bunch of younger defensemen and prospects around, and now another winger too.

 

[All Mighty]

Eric Stephens just announced that he's officially the new Kings writer for the Athletic.

Seems weird being the Ducks writer as well, but his stuff has been good so far...better than Dillman.

Pretty ridiculous that The Athletic thinks it's acceptable for a single writer to cover two teams, especially when multiple teams have more than one writer. At the very least you guys still have someone like Hoven who seems pretty focused on everything Kings. The Ducks pretty much have nobody now except Stephens, who will now be only able to cover the team half the time.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Pretty ridiculous that The Athletic thinks it's acceptable for a single writer to cover two teams, especially when multiple teams have more than one writer. At the very least you guys still have someone like Hoven who seems pretty focused on everything Kings. The Ducks pretty much have nobody now except Stephens, who will now be only able to cover the team half the time.

Cancel the Athletic?
Win, Win.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

The Ducks pretty much have nobody now except Stephens, who will now be only able to cover the team half the time.

Nobody cares about the Ducks anyways, so I guess you are a step ahead at this point.

 

[Piston]

I've heard enough different stories from enough different places to think that in the end it probably wasn't just one thing.

I've been alive long enough and worked in enough different places to KNOW that it wasn't just one thing.

Nothing is EVER just one thing.

So I don't know what happened and I'm not going to start repeating half truths and speculation that I've heard from dozens of different sources so that others can start repeating them as if they're absolutely true.

Let me say first I have no inside information at all. Having said that, it looks to me when one reads the tea leaves that Luc was working behind the scenes to push DL out. I don't know Luc but you can tell he's not the sharpest blade in the shed but gets by on looks and charm. Those skills can prove very valuable when political infighting occurs, particualrly when the victim never sees the blade until it's too late. Luc Robitaille should not be running and NHL franchise under any circumstances, and the Kings should have interviewed others for his role and for GM. Thus far, B&R have done a respectable job, but if we don't see some youth successfully injected into the lineup, I'll be calling for their heads by the end of the season (not that they care, lol).

 

[KINGS17]

But even if you have an inside source you are getting their take and interpretation of things. Especially if they have an axe to grind. So whilst you are reflecting their truth, it doesn’t make it their truth.

I don’t know your contact of course and can’t comment on their ‘expertise’. However in my experience the level of negative feedback you seem to have, indicates some level of a having an axe to grind. We’ve all heard people in an office say ‘he’s crap at his job’ about people, even though it’s far from accurate. I’m sure there are elements of truth but I doubt it’s THE truth.

It's not just one person, but you guys believe what you want to believe. I believe I have enough information to have an informed opinion on that situation. Kind of like, a podcaster.

 

[YP44]

Man for all the complaints that the Kings have basically zero media coverage everybody is so damn sure what was happening behind the scenes.

Maybe if there was more media coverage fans would not have to come up with crazy theories?

 

[Kudelski37]

Yeah, you're probably right. None of us who have been Kings fans for 20+ years have ever met any people from inside the organization and have never been privy to any kind of "inside" information ever. I am just dead wrong. No doubt Luc Robitaille is Phi Beta Kappa, and many of us are just uninformed about his role in the organization during Lombardi's tenure.

I mean it's not like some of us are podcasters.

It's not just one person, but you guys believe what you want to believe. I believe I have enough information to have an informed opinion on that situation. Kind of like, a podcaster.

Did you consider you might be arguing with people that have been fans for 40+ years that have been friends with players/staff and/or friends of friends/family of the players/staff? They might be able to have an informed opinion too.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It's a travesty that these aren't their full-time uniforms.


Rumor is we'll be getting a white version of these for this year's Retro Reverse scheme, and I hope it's true. Then use both sets as the regular uniforms starting in 2023.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's not just one person, but you guys believe what you want to believe. I believe I have enough information to have an informed opinion on that situation. Kind of like, a podcaster.

Did you consider you might be arguing with people that have been fans for 40+ years that have been friends with players/staff and/or friends of friends/family of the players/staff? They might be able to have an informed opinion too.

I think people forget just how accessible all these guys were until maybe 2015ish, hell how many Kings and staff did we run into drunk at many frozen furys, I had a full on coffee date with Terry Murray once on accident.

They don't do it much because most people don't feel the need to brag but I know of quite a few posters here who are arguably more 'inside' than anyone but the literal staff, some of them have broken trades via PM amongst other things, the smart ones don't publicly milk it, they just bite their tongues and enjoy the behind-the-scenes.

Beyond all that a lot more of it that gets confirmed is just common sense and occam's razor anyway.

 

[dman3474]

It's a travesty that these aren't their full-time uniforms.


Rumor is we'll be getting a white version of these for this year's Retro Reverse scheme, and I hope it's true. Then use both sets as the regular uniforms starting in 2023.

Not sure about white, would rather have a gold but I will take what I can get

 

[Herby]

The Athletic just provides so much additional useful content I would never consider cancelling. And I actually have been really impressed with Stephens, but yeah it’s going to be nearly impossible to cover both teams effectively during the season.

The detailed numbers on the size of the Kings fanbase must just be horrible though. I wish it weren’t the case but all the evidence with the decisions these media companies continue to make clearly tells us that the Kings don’t move the needle at all.

I once sat next to a guy who was in management for Xtra back in the day and he basically told me as much, that viewers just turned the dial whenever they discussed hockey so they basically just had to stop. And I get it, they have to keep ppl tuned in for the advertisers. This was before the cup wins but it seems like nothing changed even after the glory years.

Hockey has just never been able to really catch on in SoCal. There are diehard fans like us but sadly the idiot Kellerman line about “20k fans but they all have season tickets” thing seems to be true.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Well no....they aren't in the same boat......you say Lias Andersson a former 7th OA pick, like it's LA that picked him and they are the reason he can't stick on an NHL team.......

As far as JAD, a "highly touted 2nd" just like Clague was a "highly touted 2nd" and we all know how that played out......

Vilardi...is Vilardi......have no opinion on him one way or another....

Sorry didn't mean to miss this...

My point as clarified in the later post is that we're talking about multiple years of 1st and 2nd round picks running up against the waiver clock.

Whether you have an opinion on them or not, the fact stands that we're talking about the highest-pedigree players in the org not getting NHL/great AHL time until it's damn near time to lose them for free. Whether that's on drafting, development, or management, it's a problem that needs to be solved so you're not just wiping your ass with draft capital.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Hocket doesn't move many needles anywhere other than Canada. Maybe an O6 city, if the team has a chance. Even then, if a good hockey team is up against any other good team in the other 3 sports, they ain't talking hockey. Specifically an NFL or NBA team, and baseball in select locations.

Even if Byfield is good, I doubt it'll do much in terms of media, nobody really cares about Iginla(but he did play in Calgary, so) but the Kings and the league are for sure desperate for him to be good. It would also help if he was an American, but at least he's in a US city.

That Kings and Ducks coverage would get consolidated into one thing for both, it's not crazy. Even in terms of the NHL, the Kings and Ducks aren't a big deal. Does whatever rivalry they have even crack the top 10 in the league?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The Athletic just provides so much additional useful content I would never consider cancelling. And I actually have been really impressed with Stephens, but yeah it’s going to be nearly impossible to cover both teams effectively during the season.

The detailed numbers on the size of the Kings fanbase must just be horrible though. I wish it weren’t the case but all the evidence with the decisions these media companies continue to make clearly tells us that the Kings don’t move the needle at all.

I once sat next to a guy who was in management for Xtra back in the day and he basically told me as much, that viewers just turned the dial whenever they discussed hockey so they basically just had to stop. And I get it, they have to keep ppl tuned in for the advertisers. This was before the cup wins but it seems like nothing changed even after the glory years.

Hockey has just never been able to really catch on in SoCal. There are diehard fans like us but sadly the idiot Kellerman line about “20k fans but they all have season tickets” thing seems to be true.

How much of it is self-fulfilling prophecy, though?

Create great content and people will be there. No content, no readers, then complain about lack of readers?

Canadiens have not one but TWO beat writers. Sure hockeytown and all, but I'm getting a lot less for my sub than most other NHL readers are.

To be clear I don't disagree.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

That Kings and Ducks coverage would get consolidated into one thing for both, it's not crazy. Even in terms of the NHL, the Kings and Ducks aren't a big deal. Does whatever rivalry they have even crack the top 10 in the league?

The problem is he can only travel with one team at a time, has to cover more miles than he'll get credit for, and more things that will water down the coverage no matter how good he is.

 

[Herby]

How much of it is self-fulfilling prophecy, though?

Create great content and people will be there. No content, no readers, then complain about lack of readers?

Canadiens have not one but TWO beat writers. Sure hockeytown and all, but I'm getting a lot less for my sub than most other NHL readers are.

To be clear I don't disagree.

As much as I hate the NY Times, they are in the business of making money, and if there was enough demand for a dedicated reporter for each of the SoCal teams for the Athletic they would do it.

As far as the other media outlets, if people are changing the channel, turning the dial or flipping the page when you bring on anything hockey related there really isn't much they can do other than react to that. I don't think it's the job of the media companies to try and artificially grow the product. That is on the Kings and the Ducks. And I don't think the fan engagement has been that bad by both teams, being a Kings fan who grew up in OC I would say both teams have tried pretty hard, including the building of all those rinks and trying to get people interested, but you know what they say about leading the horse to the water...

It's just tough in SoCal because you have so many teams, you have an NBA team that has popularity that equals or exceeds that of most NFL teams in other markets (I would say the Laker obsession in LA rivals that of the Bears in Chicago, as an example), no other NHL team in another market is up against an NBA team as popular and ingrained in the culture of the market as the Lakers in LA, the Dodgers are an iconic franchise and suddenly you get two NFL teams dropped in basically overnight. Also the existence of the Ducks is a factor. Orange County has a population of about 3 million, the Ducks fanbase is smaller than the Kings and it's tough to say how many would follow the Kings if the Ducks didn't even exist, but if you take even 50% (I'd say that is a conservative guess) of the active Ducks fans who go to games/read sites like the Athletic and made them into the same thing for the Kings that makes a pretty good difference into the Kings fanbase where the media might be more open to covering the team. In hindsight a second SoCal hockey team was a mistake by the league.

 

[Evgeny Oliker]

So when does LA training camp open?


I would think Durzi signs by then…

 

[BringTheReign]

Eric Stephens just announced that he's officially the new Kings writer for the Athletic.

Seems weird being the Ducks writer as well, but his stuff has been good so far...better than Dillman.

They've been consolidating their hockey coverage unfortunately. I'm on the fence about whether I'm going to stay subscribed or not. I think the fantasy football and hockey resources are the main selling point for me at this point.

I like Stephens, but he's a reporter, not an insider. Lisa wasn't either, but she at least had an established history with the team. I think Stephens understands the platform better and uses it better than Lisa did, however.

It seems like The Athletic made a big bet in the hockey space, but that the timing was not ideal to capitalize. Whether it's the pandemic or just the preponderance of sports coverage available via Twitter, Reddit, etc, I'm not sure. I was (and still am) pulling for them as I feel this type of model has potential, but it's not looking great. I thought the NY Times acquisition would actually help given their success in the digital space, but it seems like they're cutting costs in hockey.

 

[Herby]

So when does LA training camp open?


I would think Durzi signs by then…

I am guessing that Durzi is in a holding pattern pending how Clarke looks at the rookie camp and tournament. I think there is still a chance he is traded if they are convinced Clarke is NHL ready.

They've been consolidating their hockey coverage unfortunately. I'm on the fence about whether I'm going to stay subscribed or not. I think the fantasy football and hockey resources are the main selling point for me at this point.

I like Stephens, but he's a reporter, not an insider. Lisa wasn't either, but she at least had an established history with the team. I think Stephens understands the platform better and uses it better than Lisa did, however.

I think that is a fair description of the situation. Their FF coverage is excellent.

I think the Kings keep things pretty close to the vest and with the lack of people covering the team it's hard to get inside information anyways. I think they use Hoven as their useful idiot to leak what they want to be leaked (for whatever reason) and that is about as much as we can hope for as far as inside information.