Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[Herby]

That's actually not exactly accurate...

As discussed on the latest episode of All The Kings Men (I hate it when people do that *cough*)

Prior to the firing of Dean and Daryl...

The company was clearly divided into Hockey Operations and Business Operations.

Dean was President of Hockey Ops and Luc was president of Business Ops.

When Dean was fired, Luc wasn't promoted per se. They simply restructured the company so that there is one president.... Luc Robitaille.

Rob Blake was promoted from assistant GM to GM and Luc Robitaille assumed the newly created position, President of the LA Kings.

I know it's semantics but I'm a stickler.

I was more talking about

Blake
Futa
Stevens
Emerson

Weren't they all just directly promoted?
No change with the scouting despite some questionable results.

I don't pretend to try and know what Luc's role with the Kings is or isn't. Some people think he is just schmoozing people to try and increase the bottom line and some think he is Darth Sidious running everything behind the scenes. I don't know, and since the Kings are basically the North Korea of sports organizations, who knows what is and isn't true.

I just found it extremely odd that an organization that had gone through what the Kings went through on and off the ice between June 2014 and April 2017 didn't look to really clean things up more than they did and get a fresh start.

 

[DoktorJeep]

This is 100% correct.

With the way the organization had faltered on and off the ice you would have thought they would have looked outside the organization and started over with a new GM and coach. But yeah, all they did was promote everyone up a spot.

Even Chicago made their kid interim GM sweat it out before giving him the job permanently.

If a guy who built two cup winners in 5-7:years suddenly turns into a complete incompetent 3 years later, you would think there would be massive red flags. Like Bob Murray’esque drunken rampages through the office.

The reason the full story will never come out is because Dean has too much character to besmirch what were his ultimate accomplishments.

Somehow BLuc gets to say their failures are explained by context, but Dean was suck an eff up there was no way he shouldn’t be fired. It’s a joke.

 

[Statto]

Really surprised they are still having QB participate in these. He is the only guy who seems locked into a roster spot.

Same thing with Madden who turns 23 very shortly. Madden is only a couple of months younger than JAD and Vilardi.

I like that he’s out there. With COVID and then the ankle/leg he’s missed too much time so it’s good to see him take every opportunity to be out there as he was for dev camp.

 

[Herby]

I like that he’s out there. With COVID and then the ankle/leg he’s missed too much time so it’s good to see him take every opportunity to be out there as he was for dev camp.

Well I guess better to have him at one of these than to have him at the WJC. I still do worry about injuries for a guy you have basically penciled into your Top 9.

I saw Adam Fox play in the Traverse City tournament 3 years ago and he was head and shoulders better than anyone else there. I would like to see something similar with QB in this tournament, there really can't be any excuses if he doesn't dominate this tournament.

 

[All The Kings Men]

I just found it extremely odd that an organization that had gone through what the Kings went through on and off the ice between June 2014 and April 2017 didn't look to really clean things up more than they did and get a fresh start.

Well I think their thought process has been fairly transparently laid out.

They thought a "restructure" was inevitable but figured they could milk a few more seasons out of the talent they had on the roster and it turned out they were wrong.

Now my personal belief is that them being wrong was accelerated by specific moves that they "had to do" according to some.... but when Rob Blake took over in 2017 there was, to my thinking, a clear shift in organizational strategy and philosophy.

Whether or not it was wise or well executed remains to be seen.

 

[KINGS17]

That's actually not exactly accurate...

As discussed on the latest episode of All The Kings Men (I hate it when people do that *cough*)

Prior to the firing of Dean and Daryl...

The company was clearly divided into Hockey Operations and Business Operations.

Dean was President of Hockey Ops and Luc was president of Business Ops.

When Dean was fired, Luc wasn't promoted per se. They simply restructured the company so that there is one president.... Luc Robitaille.

Rob Blake was promoted from assistant GM to GM and Luc Robitaille assumed the newly created position, President of the LA Kings.

I know it's semantics but I'm a stickler.

Wow, nice cover up. The truth is when Dean was here Luc was just a figurehead. He had a title, and that was it. Dean never let him get near the hockey operation. Also, if AEG was going to consolidate the position of franchise president, it still doesn't explain why a thorough search wasn't conducted to find the best person to be president of the organization. It sure as hell wasn't Luc Robitaille.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Wow, nice cover up. The truth is when Dean was here Luc was just a figurehead. He had a title, and that was it. Dean never let him get near the hockey operation. Also, if AEG was going to consolidate the position of franchise president, it still doesn't explain why a thorough search wasn't conducted to find the best person to be president of the organization. It sure as hell wasn't Luc Robitaille.

What am I covering up?

I told you the titles people had and how the company restructured.

I didn't run Luc Robitaille's personal calendar from 2007-2017 but I promise you he wasn't just a title and that was it.

 

[Statto]

Should fear of losing Vilardi, Lias or JAD factor into roster decisions?

No. I could swallow it for 6-8 games if they were finalizing a trade but stunting a players development just to make sure they don’t miss out on getting a 4th rd pick for a waiver wire player tgat can’t even get a spot as the 12th forward has never, ever made sense to me.

I feel exactly the same about Walker btw. If Clarke is ready to go they should send Walker to the AHL, he likely gets claimed and that frees cap space. If not they bury part of his contract and he can prove his fitness in the AHL whilst providing leadership. Training camp needs to be key for all of the fringe players (and I include Durzi in that), they need to earn their spots.

 

[LAKings88]

Dean was getting flack his last couple of years. He also put together an abysmal USA team that signaled he wasn't keeping up with current trends. I don't know if there was Darryl but it seemed to be a refusal to integrate youth too. Maybe he knew the youth just weren't that good but the Monarchs had come off a championship. The changes were not completely out of the blue but it was surprising that both were let go.

 

[Cianide]

I guess the question would be, what is the definition of a 'proper rebuild'? If it is anything like "suck really bad for more than x-amount of years so you can get more than x-amount of 1st round picks"....then yes, I guess you are correct....they don't want that and neither does anyone else. BTW, they kept their 1st round picks for 5 years in a row 2017-2021.

Vilardi
Kupari
Turcotte
Byfield
Clarke

For the record, I don't believe the org ever came out and said they were going to rebuild.

Blake did say "the rebuild is over".

 

[King'sPawn]

I like that he’s out there. With COVID and then the ankle/leg he’s missed too much time so it’s good to see him take every opportunity to be out there as he was for dev camp.

Yeah, at this point, any quality playing time is good for Byfield. I also like that he was at development camp and was essentially supposed to be part of taking ownership of the team's success. Though it's odd they're not having Kaliyev or Bjornfot out there, who were also asked to be part of development camp for the same reason.

No. I could swallow it for 6-8 games if they were finalizing a trade but stunting a players development just to make sure they don’t miss out on getting a 4th rd pick for a waiver wire player tgat can’t even get a spot as the 12th forward has never, ever made sense to me.

I feel exactly the same about Walker btw. If Clarke is ready to go they should send Walker to the AHL, he likely gets claimed and that frees cap space. If not they bury part of his contract and he can prove his fitness in the AHL whilst providing leadership. Training camp needs to be key for all of the fringe players (and I include Durzi in that), they need to earn their spots.

I do think there is a bit of flexibility here. Granted, if Kupari is head and shoulders above the rest of them, it wouldn't make sense to send him down.

But if they're about even, or a slight edge to Kupari, why not? I hate the term "asset management" as it rather dehumanizes the players, but if the risk is losing a player at a level close to Kupari for nothing instead of biding their time and giving all of them a chance to play up in the depth chart, I say send Kupari down.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Do you believe after last season that Kupari should be in the AHL this coming season? - No (I also don't think it's the end of the world either if the time is split)

Would it be optimal for his development in his age 22 season to be demoted back to the AHL? NO -- If it's a numbers game, I think 'demotion' is being dramatic. (shocker)

Should the Kings play the best players or should they take waivers over a meritocracy? Who are you referring to that he would be better than that the Kings would play over him?

Should fear of losing Vilardi, Lias or JAD factor into roster decisions? -- Yes, you are ok with losing Vilardi for nothing? Lias or JAD I'm not too concerned with.

No. I could swallow it for 6-8 games if they were finalizing a trade but stunting a players development just to make sure they don’t miss out on getting a 4th rd pick for a waiver wire player tgat can’t even get a spot as the 12th forward has never, ever made sense to me.

I feel exactly the same about Walker btw. If Clarke is ready to go they should send Walker to the AHL, he likely gets claimed and that frees cap space. If not they bury part of his contract and he can prove his fitness in the AHL whilst providing leadership. Training camp needs to be key for all of the fringe players (and I include Durzi in that), they need to earn their spots.

Whatever the reason, losing multiple 1st and 2nd round picks to waivers all at once is self-incriminating to SOMEONE in the org, be it asset management, drafting, or development. There's no sugarcoating that at all,it's just assignment of blame that's the questions.

So sure, I think it's okay to be 'not too concerned' with losing JAD to waivers, but it would be yet another indication that they either can't find a spot, can't draft, or can't develop a 2nd round pick after multiple years, and for the clock to run out on several guys at once with several more vital ones a year later...

It's not so much 'oh well we lost JAD to waivers' as much as it is why is a pretty highly touted 2nd round pick, a former 7th overall, and a former 11th overall ALL in the same boat? Yeah they're not all going to pan out, but should none pan out?

Obviously this has yet to transpire. But it's a legit worry.

 

[KINGS17]

What am I covering up?

I told you the titles people had and how the company restructured.

I didn't run Luc Robitaille's personal calendar from 2007-2017 but I promise you he wasn't just a title and that was it.

No, Luc was more like a mascot.

 

[Docgonzo]

Man for all the complaints that the Kings have basically zero media coverage everybody is so damn sure what was happening behind the scenes.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Man for all the complaints that the Kings have basically zero media coverage everybody is so damn sure what was happening behind the scenes.

We have our very own insiderrrs who were clearly in the know, or are really into fan-fiction.

 

[All The Kings Men]

We have our very own insiderrrs who were clearly in the know, or are really into fan-fiction.

a LOT of it is fan-fiction... a lot a lot

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Whatever the reason, losing multiple 1st and 2nd round picks to waivers all at once is self-incriminating to SOMEONE in the org, be it asset management, drafting, or development. There's no sugarcoating that at all,it's just assignment of blame that's the questions.

So sure, I think it's okay to be 'not too concerned' with losing JAD to waivers, but it would be yet another indication that they either can't find a spot, can't draft, or can't develop a 2nd round pick after multiple years, and for the clock to run out on several guys at once with several more vital ones a year later...

It's not so much 'oh well we lost JAD to waivers' as much as it is why is a pretty highly touted 2nd round pick, a former 7th overall, and a former 11th overall ALL in the same boat? Yeah they're not all going to pan out, but should none pan out?

Obviously this has yet to transpire. But it's a legit worry.

Well no....they aren't in the same boat......you say Lias Andersson a former 7th OA pick, like it's LA that picked him and they are the reason he can't stick on an NHL team.......

As far as JAD, a "highly touted 2nd" just like Clague was a "highly touted 2nd" and we all know how that played out......

Vilardi...is Vilardi......have no opinion on him one way or another....

 

[Sol]

Dean was getting flack his last couple of years. He also put together an abysmal USA team that signaled he wasn't keeping up with current trends. I don't know if there was Darryl but it seemed to be a refusal to integrate youth too. Maybe he knew the youth just weren't that good but the Monarchs had come off a championship. The changes were not completely out of the blue but it was surprising that both were let go.

I completely forgot about that. Dean bombed the USA team so hard that his reputation got dinged hard. I forgot how much flack he got for assembling the team so poorly.

 

[KINGS17]

We have our very own insiderrrs who were clearly in the know, or are really into fan-fiction.

Yeah, you're probably right. None of us who have been Kings fans for 20+ years have ever met any people from inside the organization and have never been privy to any kind of "inside" information ever. I am just dead wrong. No doubt Luc Robitaille is Phi Beta Kappa, and many of us are just uninformed about his role in the organization during Lombardi's tenure.

I mean it's not like some of us are podcasters.

 

[Herby]

Well no....they aren't in the same boat......you say Lias Andersson a former 7th OA pick, like it's LA that picked him and they are the reason he can't stick on an NHL team.......

As far as JAD, a "highly touted 2nd" just like Clague was a "highly touted 2nd" and we all know how that played out......

Vilardi...is Vilardi......have no opinion on him one way or another....

Anderson-Dolan made the team out of camp as a 19 year old, he certainly was a highly touted 2nd round pick. If anyone had told you four years ago when JAD made that team at 19 that he'd be battling for a final roster spot to stay off waivers at 23 it would have universally been considered a huge disappointment here.

Was he just one of those guys that peaked at 18-19 and never got better?

Also, just to add for those who want Kupari in the AHL, what is the track record of players who play a majority of the year in the NHL and then return to the AHL the next season? (Kupari played 62 total NHL games last year). I would have to look it up, but my guess would be it's not very good.

Kupari played pretty well last year and can easily be counted on as a 4th line forward, whether he has the offense to be a top 9 is up for debate, but he can be a valuable asset as a very good 4th line forward at this very moment.

Yet we risk damaging that potential so that we can get yet another look at those 3 guys. What realistic role does anyone project these 3 to play? Kempe, Fiala, Moore, VA, Kaliyev, Iafallo. Those are your six top 9 wingers. Kopitar, Danault, Byfield, Lizotte...those are your 4 centers. It's risking the development of a potentially useful asset to keep three depth players who at 23, 23 and (almost) 24 still haven't shown enough to stick on an NHL roster. There comes a time you just have to move on and risk losing 1-2 of these guys to waivers.

 

[Schmooley]

Anderson-Dolan made the team out of camp as a 19 year old, he certainly was a highly touted 2nd round pick. If anyone had told you four years ago when JAD made that team at 19 that he'd be battling for a final roster spot to stay off waivers at 23 it would have universally been considered a huge disappointment here.

Was he just one of those guys that peaked at 18-19 and never got better?

Also, just to add for those who want Kupari in the AHL, what is the track record of players who play a majority of the year in the NHL and then return to the AHL the next season? (Kupari played 62 total NHL games last year). I would have to look it up, but my guess would be it's not very good.

Kupari played pretty well last year and can easily be counted on as a 4th line forward, whether he has the offense to be a top 9 is up for debate, but he can be a valuable asset as a very good 4th line forward at this very moment.

Yet we risk damaging that potential so that we can get yet another look at those 3 guys. What realistic role does anyone project these 3 to play? Kempe, Fiala, Moore, VA, Kaliyev, Iafallo. Those are your six top 9 wingers. Kopitar, Danault, Byfield, Lizotte...those are your 4 centers. It's risking the development of a potentially useful asset to keep three depth players who at 23, 23 and 24 still haven't shown enough to stick on an NHL roster. There comes a time you just have to move on and risk losing 1-2 of these guys to waivers.

Yea Anderson Dolan had a really good rookie season playing between I think I remember Moore and Grundstrom. Last year he was sent to the AHL out of camp because he didnt need waivers and they had too many bodies. Now hes a throwaway spare forward/waiver fodder.
Pretty much the exact path they are paving for Kupari unless he plays like a star player in training camp. In training camp last year veterans were dogging it and people on here say camp doesnt matter. But at the same time it does matter for a guy like Kupari. They are shooting themselves in the foot with some of these development choices.
But it is what it is theres nothing we can say that will change it.

 

[Herby]

Yea Anderson Dolan had a really good rookie season playing between I think I remember Moore and Grundstrom. Last year he was sent to the AHL out of camp because he didnt need waivers and they had too many bodies. Now hes a throwaway spare forward/waiver fodder.
Pretty much the exact path they are paving for Kupari unless he plays like a star player in training camp. In training camp last year veterans were dogging it and people on here say camp doesnt matter. But at the same time it does matter for a guy like Kupari. They are shooting themselves in the foot with some of these development choices.
But it is what it is theres nothing we can say that will change it.

Another thing to consider too is that these guys are not robots and there are emotions and money involved. Sure if Kupari is sent to Ontario he is supposed to be a good pro and accept it and work hard, but the reality is he goes from 60+ games of making close to a million bucks a season, chartered flights, five star hotels and playing in the best arenas in the world to making $70k and riding busses to play at places like the San Diego Sports Arena. That is a tough adjustment to make for anyone, especially if in your mind you shouldn't be down there.

That is probably why most NHL teams choose not to operate that way with their players.

 

[King'sPawn]

Anderson-Dolan made the team out of camp as a 19 year old, he certainly was a highly touted 2nd round pick. If anyone had told you four years ago when JAD made that team at 19 that he'd be battling for a final roster spot to stay off waivers at 23 it would have universally been considered a huge disappointment here.

Was he just one of those guys that peaked at 18-19 and never got better?

Also, just to add for those who want Kupari in the AHL, what is the track record of players who play a majority of the year in the NHL and then return to the AHL the next season? (Kupari played 62 total NHL games last year). I would have to look it up, but my guess would be it's not very good.

Kupari played pretty well last year and can easily be counted on as a 4th line forward, whether he has the offense to be a top 9 is up for debate, but he can be a valuable asset as a very good 4th line forward at this very moment.

Yet we risk damaging that potential so that we can get yet another look at those 3 guys. What realistic role does anyone project these 3 to play? Kempe, Fiala, Moore, VA, Kaliyev, Iafallo. Those are your six top 9 wingers. Kopitar, Danault, Byfield, Lizotte...those are your 4 centers. It's risking the development of a potentially useful asset to keep three depth players who at 23, 23 and (almost) 24 still haven't shown enough to stick on an NHL roster. There comes a time you just have to move on and risk losing 1-2 of these guys to waivers.

I actually don't think JAD has looked bad when he's been up here. Not a world-beater, but he's also just not had much opportunity (a familiar theme).

What type of impact are we expecting from Kupari's overall career? Middle-six forward? Here are some other mid-first round picks (forwards) sent down to the AHL after 60+ NHL games:
Owen Tippett (94 games)
Filip Chytil (84 games)
Tyson Jost (after 71 and another 70 games)
Lawson Crouse (83 games)
Joel Eriksson-Ek (90 games)
Sonny Milano (he keeps bouncing between leagues)
Valeri Nichushkin (79 games, and even went back to Europe)
Curtis Lazar

Most of them are short stints, but players DO go back. Keep in mind the list above only covers forwards drafted between picks 10-21 between the 2013 and 2017 draft. Very small sample. Not uncommon. Again, GMs leverage waiver eligibility so they don't lose players unnecessarily.

Kupari is a good player with some potential still. But the Kings need to start opening up opportunities for them, as Kupari, Thomas, and others are waiver eligible next season.

 

[Statto]

Yeah, you're probably right. None of us who have been Kings fans for 20+ years have ever met any people from inside the organization and have never been privy to any kind of "inside" information ever. I am just dead wrong. No doubt Luc Robitaille is Phi Beta Kappa, and many of us are just uninformed about his role in the organization during Lombardi's tenure.

I mean it's not like some of us are podcasters.

But even if you have an inside source you are getting their take and interpretation of things. Especially if they have an axe to grind. So whilst you are reflecting their truth, it doesn’t make it their truth.

I don’t know your contact of course and can’t comment on their ‘expertise’. However in my experience the level of negative feedback you seem to have, indicates some level of a having an axe to grind. We’ve all heard people in an office say ‘he’s crap at his job’ about people, even though it’s far from accurate. I’m sure there are elements of truth but I doubt it’s THE truth.

 

[lumbergh]

I like Kupari as 4C this year. Maybe that's because I'm not a huge Blake Lizotte fan. I think Kupari will produce and contribute physicality in that spot next to Grundstrom/Lemieux or whoever is out there. He's got a solid defensive game, skates extremely well, and can create space with his size and checking.

He's gonna be good. Just needs the minutes, like every other prospect in the system.