Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[cyclones22]

Imagine having your choice of the best college graduates in any field and then starting them in the mailroom because you feel they need to know how your business runs from the ground up first. Any other business you're actually utilizing the skills that your new employee has for the position that you believe their role to be. That you hired them for. And you partner them with employees who know what they're doing. Not with another new hire or your long-standing employees who are on the way out and aren't effective anymore.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Ok, so what's your prediction for the next 5 years?

Slightly worse than Dave Taylor over his last five seasons as GM.

 

[Herby]

Because it is wholly unreasonable for any team coming out of a rebuild to be chasing the playoffs and requiring young, talented players to first prove that they won't hurt that goal INSTEAD of first learning how to apply the very skillset that made them attractive picks in the first place.

I missed this part, but it's very likely the organization never truly saw themselves in a rebuild.

I know, imagine picking four times in the Top 11 over a five year period and not thinking it's a rebuild. But Jesse made the point (which I think is incorrect) about not being in a rebuild. So maybe the organization feels that way.

The kids will develop better having more responsibility at a younger age. Don't need to pad their stats with soft assignments so they can ask for more money as they try & pull off a lacrosse style goal & not back check. Get out there & earn your opportunity.

I'm transitioning to a grumpy old guy!!!!!

Based on what?

What other team have developed players this way?

Teams can’t have success with young offensive players? Was I seeing things when Suzuki and Caufield were the two best forwards on a SC finals team at 20 and 21?

You believe the offensive production and contracts handed out to guys like Norris, Suzuki and next year Zegras and Caufield are bad?

 

[KINGS17]

Ok, so what's your prediction for the next 5 years?

One word: mediocrity. They need to start playing the kids now to have any hope of being contenders in the next five seasons.

 

[Cianide]

No, YOU don't know.

You're right that it's not rocket science; there have been PLENTY of examples of absolute contenders playing their kids--successfully!!--in the top six while developing them.

It's not the forum's fault you have your head up your ass when presented with evidence.




Oh, there is plenty of question about that.

Kopitar was a net negative down the stretch. You really think playing him fewer minutes would have hurt?

There was a time PP1 was actually a minus down the stretch. You really think adding 30 seconds to PP2 would have hurt?

Evidence is there that overplaying the vets was actually a problem; people are actually trying to argue it's not? Sorry, the evidence doesn't bear that out.

Playing the vets might've hurt, but playing the kids would've landed us tee times after 82 games.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

One word: mediocrity. They need to start playing the kids now to have any hope of being contenders in the next five seasons.

Will you enjoy watching the team next year if they are winning without Kaliyev playing on the top two lines? How does that work?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

One word: mediocrity. They need to start playing the kids now to have any hope of being contenders in the next five seasons.

The Kings were the 5th youngest team in the NHL last season, and the only team in that top 5 to make the playoffs.

Elite Prospects - Team Comparison in NHL

Compare average height, weight and age in NHL.

www.eliteprospects.com

So what did they do with Kaliyev, Durzi, Anderson, Bjornfot, etc.? Sure, you can make an argument that Byfield was overprotected, but they are playing the kids. Kaliyev was 3rd on the team in games played, Mikey Anderson, Jordan Spence and Sean Durzi all averaged 19-20 minutes per night.

Or was all of this a figment of our imagination?

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

The Kings were the 5th youngest team in the NHL last season, and the only team in that top 5 to make the playoffs.

Elite Prospects - Team Comparison in NHL

Compare average height, weight and age in NHL.

www.eliteprospects.com

So what did they do with Kaliyev, Durzi, Anderson, Bjornfot, etc.? Sure, you can make an argument that Byfield was overprotected, but they are playing the kids. Kaliyev was 3rd on the team in games played, Mikey Anderson, Jordan Spence and Sean Durzi all averaged 19-20 minutes per night.

Or was all of this a figment of our imagination?

Wow, look at that….even younger than ANA!

 

[kingsfan28]

Imagine having your choice of the best college graduates in any field and then starting them in the mailroom because you feel they need to know how your business runs from the ground up first. Any other business you're actually utilizing the skills that your new employee has for the position that you believe their role to be. That you hired them for. And you partner them with employees who know what they're doing. Not with another new hire or your long-standing employees who are on the way out and aren't effective anymore.

Welcome to the life of a hollywood agent [ and maybe sports agents too] .

 

[kingsfan28]

Slightly worse than Dave Taylor over his last five seasons as GM.

That will be tough to do. Al Murray isn't there to call timeout looking dumb as F as to who to pick next.

 

[Rick Knickleback]

The Kings were the 5th youngest team in the NHL last season, and the only team in that top 5 to make the playoffs.

Elite Prospects - Team Comparison in NHL

Compare average height, weight and age in NHL.

www.eliteprospects.com

So what did they do with Kaliyev, Durzi, Anderson, Bjornfot, etc.? Sure, you can make an argument that Byfield was overprotected, but they are playing the kids. Kaliyev was 3rd on the team in games played, Mikey Anderson, Jordan Spence and Sean Durzi all averaged 19-20 minutes per night.

Or was all of this a figment of our imagination?

I agree with much of this overall, and I do think the "poor development" argument is less true on the defensive side of things than up front. ButI also think that whether you're rebuilding, re-tooling, or re-stocking, whatever you want to call it, when you've got 4 top 11 picks in five years, you need to hit on three of those. And it's not clear yet that they've hit on any of them yet, which is nervous time because Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick are not the players they used to be.

Clarke: obviously too soon to tell. I think he's a sure bet though.
Byfield: this year is it. He's got to show something.
Turcotte: i know bad luck is some of it, but he's not where he should be, considering when and where he was drafted.
Villardi: Same as Turcotte, but worse.

One mulligan is fine. And I think Kaliyev (and Kupari) are developing nicely. But the Kings need top-end talent quickly.

 

[DoktorJeep]

That will be tough to do. Al Murray isn't there to call timeout looking dumb as F as to who to pick next.

Was that for the first round pick we got after Blake decided $8M a year wasn’t enough to stay the team’s captain?

 

[kingsfan28]

Was that for the first round pick we got after Blake decided $8M a year wasn’t enough to stay the team’s captain?

not sure. we had our own, Detroits I believe and someone elses. They came so close to getting nothing in that draft.

 

[King'sPawn]

The Kings were the 5th youngest team in the NHL last season, and the only team in that top 5 to make the playoffs.

Elite Prospects - Team Comparison in NHL

Compare average height, weight and age in NHL.

www.eliteprospects.com

So what did they do with Kaliyev, Durzi, Anderson, Bjornfot, etc.? Sure, you can make an argument that Byfield was overprotected, but they are playing the kids. Kaliyev was 3rd on the team in games played, Mikey Anderson, Jordan Spence and Sean Durzi all averaged 19-20 minutes per night.

Or was all of this a figment of our imagination?

The issue is the forwards. For some reason, the Kings allow the defensemen to "play their game," but the forwards are relegated to the bottom-6 until, well, whenever we see them regularly in the top-6.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The kids will develop better having more responsibility at a younger age. Don't need to pad their stats with soft assignments so they can ask for more money as they try & pull off a lacrosse style goal & not back check. Get out there & earn your opportunity.

I'm transitioning to a grumpy old guy!!!!!

Do you think Kaliyev learns more responsibility playing softer minutes with Lemieux and Lizotte than he would playing harder minutes next to savants like Danault or Kopitar?

Not even full time mind you. I would just have liked to see more rotation, variety, opportunity. Especially on the PP.

The Kings were the 5th youngest team in the NHL last season, and the only team in that top 5 to make the playoffs.

Elite Prospects - Team Comparison in NHL

Compare average height, weight and age in NHL.

www.eliteprospects.com

So what did they do with Kaliyev, Durzi, Anderson, Bjornfot, etc.? Sure, you can make an argument that Byfield was overprotected, but they are playing the kids. Kaliyev was 3rd on the team in games played, Mikey Anderson, Jordan Spence and Sean Durzi all averaged 19-20 minutes per night.

Or was all of this a figment of our imagination?

Guess you missed the part where it took them using nearly an NHL record # of dmen before even getting those guys in the lineup then couldn't wait to get some of them out, even trading for a plug like Stetcher at the deadline. I'm not impressed that the dmen got playing time when they literally had no other options and went out and got one.

No, the forwards are more typical of the Kings usage. "games played" is a worthless metric when you're plugging your #2 OA pick with the biggest liability in the league and a last-legs swan song winger and blaming him for everything wrong.

Or, let's not forget that the Kings AND the Reign both ended their seasons with BYFIELD VILARDI KUPARI all on the bench.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

The issue is the forwards. For some reason, the Kings allow the defensemen to "play their game," but the forwards are relegated to the bottom-6 until, well, whenever we see them regularly in the top-6.

Hmmmm.....how long did Kempe and Iafallo play on the bottom six? How about Toffoli....Pearson....just asking...

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Do you think Kaliyev learns more responsibility playing softer minutes with Lemieux and Lizotte than he would playing harder minutes next to savants like Danault or Kopitar?

Not even full time mind you. I would just have liked to see more rotation, variety, opportunity. Especially on the PP.




Guess you missed the part where it took them using nearly an NHL record # of dmen before even getting those guys in the lineup then couldn't wait to get some of them out, even trading for a plug like Stetcher at the deadline. I'm not impressed that the dmen got playing time when they literally had no other options and went out and got one.

No, the forwards are more typical of the Kings usage. "games played" is a worthless metric when you're plugging your #2 OA pick with the biggest liability in the league and a last-legs swan song winger and blaming him for everything wrong.

Or, let's not forget that the Kings AND the Reign both ended their seasons with BYFIELD VILARDI KUPARI all on the bench.

Bolded......100% absolutely yes....he learned defensive responsibility and positioning...how to play along the boards and in corners when needed......and he didn't cost the team at inopportune times.....

Imagine being a young player, first year in the league, playing what you say HARD minutes....and getting your shit kicked in because you can't or didn't recognize your defensive assignments, that you gave away pucks....and costing your team games......now I get it...to you....(general you) it doesn't matter because well he's young and playing top minutes......but imagine the pressure you are under when playing a competitive team sport...and YOU are the reason....for the teams losing...

Compare it to this, you as a real estate agent, land a great deal, you get to sell out the brand new condo's in Malibu.....250 million buy out....you've got a good team working for you.......and you lose the deal because your intern agent, who just graduated school, didn't know the correct forms he had to fill out......

Because everyone knows...professional sports.....IS JUST LIKE BUSINESS......right (alluding to the absolutely idiotic sentiment that you don't hire top graduates and put them in the mail room, I mean f***, that's literally the set up for law offices....)...

 

[Herby]

Hmmmm.....how long did Kempe and Iafallo play on the bottom six? How about Toffoli....Pearson....just asking...

Iafallo was never a kid, he was an UDFA who turned 24 years old a month into his rookie season after a 4 year NCAA career.

Toffoli and Pearson debuted in the NHL in 2013, nearly a decade ago. How are they relevant to this discussion?

Kempe was a third line player for basically his entire career, averaging 13 goals a season from 20-24 before breaking out at age 25 into a first liner last year.

The discussion is how the Kings handle 1st round forwards under Rob Blake in comparison to how other teams do it. You believe that the unorthodox ways of the Kings are better, some of us would just like to see some evidence of why it's better than how other teams do it.

I asked you some questions that I would be curious your opinion on an earlier post, you must have missed it.

What were the Kings expecting to get out of putting Turcotte in the AHL at 19?

What were the Kings expecting to get out of Byfield in the AHL at 18?

Was it to increase their offensive ceiling or mold him into a “Kings type of player”?

Most of the players taken by other teams with similar picks were handled differently by those teams and have been more successful thus far than Turcotte and Byfield, does that concern you?

Using the stuff I have posted about when guys become NHL contributors does it concern you that perhaps the molding into “Kings type of players” has a severely negative effect on long-term offensive upside of Kings prospects?

With players like Werenski, Caufield and Beniers on the record saying how important dominating as a teenage player at the NCAA level before making the jump is.

Do you believe these players are wrong and overstating it?

Why would they say it if it didn’t matter where they played?

Why were they able to immediately jump into the NHL without needing to be re-programmed as good little soldiers into their NHL systems?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Bolded......100% absolutely yes....he learned defensive responsibility and positioning...how to play along the boards and in corners when needed......and he didn't cost the team at inopportune times.....

Imagine being a young player, first year in the league, playing what you say HARD minutes....and getting your shit kicked in because you can't or didn't recognize your defensive assignments, that you gave away pucks....and costing your team games......now I get it...to you....(general you) it doesn't matter because well he's young and playing top minutes......but imagine the pressure you are under when playing a competitive team sport...and YOU are the reason....for the teams losing...

Compare it to this, you as a real estate agent, land a great deal, you get to sell out the brand new condo's in Malibu.....250 million buy out....you've got a good team working for you.......and you lose the deal because your intern agent, who just graduated school, didn't know the correct forms he had to fill out......

Because everyone knows...professional sports.....IS JUST LIKE BUSINESS......right (alluding to the absolutely idiotic sentiment that you don't hire top graduates and put them in the mail room, I mean f***, that's literally the set up for law offices....)...

I know it would have killed you to read the second line before responding, but try next time.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Iafallo was never a kid, he was an UDFA who turned 24 years old a month into his rookie season after a 4 year NCAA career.

Toffoli and Pearson debuted in the NHL in 2013, nearly a decade ago. How are they relevant to this discussion?

Kempe was a third line player for basically his entire career, averaging 13 goals a season from 20-24 before breaking out at age 25 into a first liner last year.

The discussion is how the Kings handle 1st round forwards under Rob Blake in comparison to how other teams do it. You believe that the unorthodox ways of the Kings are better, some of us would just like to see some evidence of why it's better than how other teams do it.

I asked you some questions that I would be curious your opinion on an earlier post, you must have missed it.

What were the Kings expecting to get out of putting Turcotte in the AHL at 19?

What were the Kings expecting to get out of Byfield in the AHL at 18?

Was it to increase their offensive ceiling or mold him into a “Kings type of player”?

Most of the players taken by other teams with similar picks were handled differently by those teams and have been more successful thus far than Turcotte and Byfield, does that concern you?

Using the stuff I have posted about when guys become NHL contributors does it concern you that perhaps the molding into “Kings type of players” has a severely negative effect on long-term offensive upside of Kings prospects?

With players like Werenski, Caufield and Beniers on the record saying how important dominating as a teenage player at the NCAA level before making the jump is.

Do you believe these players are wrong and overstating it?

Why would they say it if it didn’t matter where they played?

Why were they able to immediately jump into the NHL without needing to be re-programmed as good little soldiers into their NHL systems?

Iafallo was never a kid, so....sorry...as a ROOKIE...he was plugged right into top 6 minutes....is that better? I mean f***, you are literally advocating that Turcotte should have never left school......Iafallo didn't, and he's not a kid.....f***, you literally want your cake and want to eat it as well....

Toffoli and Pearson both show that LA hasn't had a problem with plugging in kids....like you want everyone to believe.

Kempe was playing tweener minutes since his debut......but are you really judging 2nd line minutes based on goals scored? f*** sake man....

As far as your questions, here's the deal, I don't even pretend to f***ing know....unlike.....well.....you.

But If I was to guess, they wanted Turcotte to get acclimated to the pro game, when he left school....

As far as Byfield, well, shit, they just wanted him to PLAY.....considering there was no OHL season and he was drafted as a long term project....and wasn't ready for the NHL....I guess you...being the genius you are, would have told him, Quentin, I know you want to play, and I know there's no OHL season.....so...just go home, play shinny, come back next year....

No, it doesn't concern me, because "most teams" who have done that, haven't won f***all.....

I know it would have killed you to read the second line before responding, but try next time.

So you think rotating lines on a daily basis is a good thing? f*** me.....

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The issue is the forwards. For some reason, the Kings allow the defensemen to "play their game," but the forwards are relegated to the bottom-6 until, well, whenever we see them regularly in the top-6.

Besides Kaliyev, have any stood out that they do belong there? We saw them put Fagemo in a top line role when Brown was out, he didn’t do anything particularly well to stand out. Even Jaret Anderson-Dolan saw some time up there on LW and did nothing to show he belongs.

Sometimes it’s just the players. Kaliyev worked his ass off and showed he can adapt, and he was the best rookie forward this team has probably iced in the lineup since Kempe.

The other standout forward, though inconsistent, was Kupari, who started to show a physical edge to his game. Byfield is still a work in progress, and I’d say the biggest disappointments thus far have been Vilardi and Turcotte.

That said, I’d rather have seen these guys playing over Athanasiou last season, and if they can’t beat out the likes of Lizotte for a spot in the lineup, that’s on them. The young guys need to learn to match his work ethic. That’s a big reason why Vilardi found his ass scratched. He did show signs of life late in the season though, so there still might be some hope in him to finally “get it.”

 

[King'sPawn]

I asked you some questions that I would be curious your opinion on an earlier post, you must have missed it.

Judging by your response. No. It wasn't missed. Just ignored.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Besides Kaliyev, have any stood out that they do belong there? We saw them put Fagemo in a top line role when Brown was out, he didn’t do anything particularly well to stand out. Even Jaret Anderson-Dolan saw some time up there on LW and did nothing to show he belongs.

Sometimes it’s just the players. Kaliyev worked his ass off and showed he can adapt, and he was the best rookie forward this team has probably iced in the lineup since Kempe.

The other standout forward, though inconsistent, was Kupari, who started to show a physical edge to his game. Byfield is still a work in progress, and I’d say the biggest disappointments thus far have been Vilardi and Turcotte.

That said, I’d rather have seen these guys playing over Athanasiou last season, and if they can’t beat out the likes of Lizotte for a spot in the lineup, that’s on them. The young guys need to learn to match his work ethic. That’s a big reason why Vilardi found his ass scratched. He did show signs of life late in the season though, so there still might be some hope in him to finally “get it.”

Doing it wrong, it's not the players fault they aren't performing, it's the organizations fault for expecting them to perform......

 

[King'sPawn]

Besides Kaliyev, have any stood out that they do belong there? We saw them put Fagemo in a top line role when Brown was out, he didn’t do anything particularly well to stand out. Even Jaret Anderson-Dolan saw some time up there on LW and did nothing to show he belongs.

Sometimes it’s just the players. Kaliyev worked his ass off and showed he can adapt, and he was the best rookie forward this team has probably iced in the lineup since Kempe.

The other standout forward, though inconsistent, was Kupari, who started to show a physical edge to his game. Byfield is still a work in progress, and I’d say the biggest disappointments thus far have been Vilardi and Turcotte.

That said, I’d rather have seen these guys playing over Athanasiou last season, and if they can’t beat out the likes of Lizotte for a spot in the lineup, that’s on them. The young guys need to learn to match his work ethic. That’s a big reason why Vilardi found his ass scratched. He did show signs of life late in the season though, so there still might be some hope in him to finally “get it.”

Fagemo got 13:43 of ice time over 4 games. A few shifts with Kopitar and suddenly it's back down to the minors? I thought it was about patience?

JAD had 13:47 over 7 games. Iafallo and Moore had longer streaks this season where they struggled.

Kaliyev worked his ass off and... was rewarded with STAYING on the 4th line, as well as a bump up to playing on the "kids line", and 2nd unit PP time.

Yes. Sometimes it is the players. However, when it's the players year after year after year in the same organization, it brings us back to the question: Is it a problem with drafting or development?

Cue the start of the argument again.

 

[Herby]

Judging by your response. No. It wasn't missed. Just ignored.

Ha, well it was just answered. Kind of.

Apparently the Kings had no choice but to have Byfield waste a year of development in the AHL. It was either the AHL or pond hockey, apparently. If only there was some other place where teams have historically placed similar players to Byfield, if only a league like that existed.

Also, apparently pointing out how other teams would have almost surely handled both Byfield and Turcotte differently by using actual facts makes me think I am a genius.

We have a couple of people on this board arguing that the sky isn't blue because the Kings organization says it isn't.