Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[Herby]

I don’t have an issue with any individual contract because there’s a case for each of them. However as a group of contracts (Doughty, Kopitar, Brown, Gaborik, Quick) it wasn’t smart cap management. Even though the cap being so stagnant couldn’t have been predicted it still wasn’t smart. However everyone signs #11 and #8… every GM in the league signs those deals.

Dean's big issue was he was taking out cash advances to gamble and/or he had absolutely zero recognition about how guys age, in particular the cliff some guys fall off. He was making horrific long-term investments to save small amounts in the short-term and/or keep his band together.

I loved Gaborik, but 7 years?!?. The guy was 32 years old, God bless him because he gave the Kings everything he had in that playoff run, it was a fantastic hockey player all-in on his last chance to win the cup but he was a 1-2 year extension guy beyond that.

Matt Greene 4 years? A 1 year extension would have been fine.

The Richards fiasco? Basically signing off on a 6 year, $6m hit for a guy who was playing in the AHL the next season.

I wonder if stuff like this gets brought up when teams consider filling their GM positions. All these things happened in the same summer. Yikes.

I agree on the other part, especially with Kopitar. I think there may have been a small window where trading Doughty would have been realistic but again, it's tough for a GM to trade a Drew Doughty.

 

[johnjm22]

Richards Trade
Penner Trade
Sekera Trade
Regehr Trade
Bishop Trade
Lucic Trade

Lost Voynov
7 Year deal for Gaborik
4 Year deal for Greene
Williams, Mitchell, Stoll, Scuderi were all getting old and/or walked.
Only high draft pick was used on Forbort

All those above trades (good or bad) were futures in exchange for short term assets. You can't make that many trades like that without setting a franchise back for the better part of a decade.

The above is the main reason for the franchises recent struggles. If Kopitar's contract is a problem, it's a relatively small / inconsequential one in comparison.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I don’t think the Danault signing was bad since it’s not a massive contract.

Yah, but that't not what you said at the time of the signing...you know, before even seeing what the guy could do.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

You can’t just treat players like shit and ship them off when they deserve to be paid though. Otherwise no one will want to sign with or be traded to the team. Will we just have a rotating cast of rookies that never reach their prime with the team?

Oh, so you mean we can't treat players like it's a video game?

 

[KingsFan7824]

Kopitar's presence on the roster has also been close to meaningless over the term of his current contract. He could have been traded for any number of assets. The cost of his deal was the lost opportunity missed by not acquiring those assets.

When could he have been traded? At the 2014 draft? After a then career worst season in 14-15? At the 2016 deadline when the team was still in 1st place in the division? Maybe if DL doesn't get Lucic, but he did, so he had zero intention of trading Kopitar in 2015, so, in real life, there was never a time to trade him. You're basically getting upset at your spouse because of a dream you had.

As for Kopitar being a very good complimentary player, that's why I don't think DL takes him if he's here in 2005. Although he did take Marleau back in 97, and was also a loser. Marc Staal was the next pick in 2005, and he's had a fine career. DL loved his defensemen. Look at Hickey.

You look at those early-00's Sharks teams, and they're very similar to what the Kings had between 12 and 14. Had things not come together as they did, and what it was that pushed the Kings over the top I don't know, but they were pretty close to topping out as like a 2002 Sharks group. At least then Kopitar, Doughty, Gaborik, Brown, Quick, and anyone else don't get their stupid post-Cup contracts.

 

[KINGS17]

I remember watching guys like Modano, Fedorov, Forsberg, Yzerman, Sundin etc. and just wishing the Kings had a guy like that. And then we got a guy like that, for a decade and a half now, a 1-3 player on two Stanley Cup teams, the best offensive player on the team every year, the best defensive forward on the team every year. And all of this without ever having a winger anywhere close to the same level or a young center developed to help him.

People on here talk about "well he is a $10m player, he should be a high-end 1C", but that is not the way it works for contracts. When Dean signed Kopitar you can bet the expectation wasn't that he'd be a $10m caliber first-line player at 35 and 36, and that by then they'd have drafted and developed (or somehow acquired) a center to at least help the offensive burden. And that contract part is not a criticism of Dean, many teams do the same thing, when MacKinnon gets extended the last couple of years will not bring great value to the team.

They were going to draft Barzal in 2015 (if you believe Futa) and chose to flush the pick down the toilet. They drafted centers very high in 2017, 2019 and 2020 and still no Kopitar replacement. They did at least address replacing his defensive game with Danault, but Danault isn't going to replace Kopitar's offense, that is still the area they seem a long way from replacing. Unfortunately I think far to many here place the blame on Kopitar when it should be with two different GM's who really let him down in the second half of his career.

When Dean signed Kopitar, and I still don't believe he was the major decision maker on that deal, as Brisson and Robitaille were involved by the time the deal was signed. Dean's last public comment regarding the negotiations was, "We aren't even in the same ballpark." Sutter had nice things to say about the deal, but Lombardi was silent. Here is one article which is an example:

Official Site of the National Hockey League | NHL.com

The official National Hockey League website including news, rosters, stats, schedules, teams, and video.

www.nhl.com

“Guys get rewarded for winning Stanley Cups” and that the extension was not about numbers,” Sutter said. “He’s worth every penny of it. It’s got nothing to do with that. You win championships with players like that. Very clear.”

General manager Dean Lombardi was not available to discuss the impact the extension will have on the Kings’ salary cap.

The idea was the Kings were going to continue to contend. Sutter said it, "You win championships..."

Why has everyone forgotten that was the major theme? Kopitar was going to help the Kings win championships. That was the whole point of the deal. Have the Kings contended at all over the entire length of the contract? No.

Kopitar is a very good player, and has shown he can be an integral piece of a championship team, but he is no Rob "The Piece" Scuderi. No one is saying Kopitar is not a great player, but everyone has lowered the bar an immense amount from when the deal was signed.

Well, we didn't make the playoffs again, hey we made the playoffs and didn't win a round, but you can't criticize Kopitar's contract because he led the team in scoring. He led the team in scoring? BFD.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

When Dean signed Kopitar, and I still don't believe he was the major decision maker on that deal, as Brisson and Robitaille were involved by the time the deal was signed. Dean's last public comment regarding the negotiations was, "We aren't even in the same ballpark." Sutter had nice things to say about the deal, but Lombardi was silent. Here is one article which is an example:

Official Site of the National Hockey League | NHL.com

The official National Hockey League website including news, rosters, stats, schedules, teams, and video.

www.nhl.com

“Guys get rewarded for winning Stanley Cups” and that the extension was not about numbers,” Sutter said. “He’s worth every penny of it. It’s got nothing to do with that. You win championships with players like that. Very clear.”

General manager Dean Lombardi was not available to discuss the impact the extension will have on the Kings’ salary cap.

The idea was the Kings were going to continue to contend. Sutter said it, "You win championships..."

Why has everyone forgotten that was the major theme? Kopitar was going to help the Kings win championships. That was the whole point of the deal. Have the Kings contended at all over the entire length of the contract? No.

Kopitar is a very good player, and has shown he can be an integral piece of a championship team, but he is no Rob "The Piece" Scuderi. No one is saying Kopitar is not a great player, but everyone has lowered the bar an immense amount from when the deal was signed.

Well, we didn't make the playoffs again, hey we made the playoffs and didn't win a round, but you can't criticize Kopitar's contract because he led the team in scoring. He led the team in scoring? BFD.

Again, you can say the same f***ing thing about 90% of the f***ing league....

Why is it so special you are saying it now?

 

[Lt Dan]

Again, you can say the same f***ing thing about 90% of the f***ing league....

Why is it so special you are saying it now?

Because he's a Jolly Good Fellow, which nobody can deny

 

[KingsFan7824]

When Dean signed Kopitar, and I still don't believe he was the major decision maker on that deal, as Brisson and Robitaille were involved by the time the deal was signed. Dean's last public comment regarding the negotiations was, "We aren't even in the same ballpark." Sutter had nice things to say about the deal, but Lombardi was silent. Here is one article which is an example:

Official Site of the National Hockey League | NHL.com

The official National Hockey League website including news, rosters, stats, schedules, teams, and video.

www.nhl.com

“Guys get rewarded for winning Stanley Cups” and that the extension was not about numbers,” Sutter said. “He’s worth every penny of it. It’s got nothing to do with that. You win championships with players like that. Very clear.”

General manager Dean Lombardi was not available to discuss the impact the extension will have on the Kings’ salary cap.

The idea was the Kings were going to continue to contend. Sutter said it, "You win championships..."

Why has everyone forgotten that was the major theme? Kopitar was going to help the Kings win championships. That was the whole point of the deal. Have the Kings contended at all over the entire length of the contract? No.

Kopitar is a very good player, and has shown he can be an integral piece of a championship team, but he is no Rob "The Piece" Scuderi. No one is saying Kopitar is not a great player, but everyone has lowered the bar an immense amount from when the deal was signed.

Well, we didn't make the playoffs again, hey we made the playoffs and didn't win a round, but you can't criticize Kopitar's contract because he led the team in scoring. He led the team in scoring? BFD.

Do you legitimately think, in a year that DL went out and spent heavily for Lucic, and did his magic to convince Lecavalier to come here, as the team he constructed was in 1st place in the Pac, and 6th overall on trade deadline day 2016, that he would've traded Kopitar due to not being able to agree on a contract? DL did more to try to help the team the following season at the deadline when they were worse.

So he's not being traded at the 2015 draft, he's not being traded at the 2016 deadline, so there will be no assets acquired for Kopitar. The whole point of Lucic was to try ro take advantage of Kopitar's last good contract year. He would've been allowed to walk as a UFA. Then DL does what with the savings?

Maybe its the start of a complete rebuild. If Kopitar walks away, Doughty certainly wants out. Could've gotten assets for him, Carter, Brown, and Quick are a still difficult to trade due to the reality of long term for aging players.

No Matthews in 2016, since the Kings were too good, and they didn't have their pick anyway. Who knows who they get in 2017 and 2018. Maybe a homerun, maybe another Hickey. Then of course who knows what takes place in 2019, 2020, and 2021. Byfield, Turcotte, and Clarke wouldn't be here, unless the rebuild isn't getting that steady point improvement DL always loved.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Contract extensions should only be reserved for the truly elite players, like Dan Cloutier and John Zeiler.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Contract extensions should only be reserved for the truly elite players, like Dan Cloutier and John Zeiler.

Maybe, but I want to see Kings17 advocate for EDM and TOR letting McDavid and Matthews walk......or trading them.....because the same argument he is using for Kopitar....can be applied to them.

 

[Sol]

Oh, so you mean we can't treat players like it's a video game?

My issue with the signing at the time was that I thought was unnecessary to sign someone to pretty much take Byfields icetime

 

[kilowatt]

Do you legitimately think, in a year that DL went out and spent heavily for Lucic, and did his magic to convince Lecavalier to come here, as the team he constructed was in 1st place in the Pac, and 6th overall on trade deadline day 2016, that he would've traded Kopitar due to not being able to agree on a contract? DL did more to try to help the team the following season at the deadline when they were worse.

So he's not being traded at the 2015 draft, he's not being traded at the 2016 deadline, so there will be no assets acquired for Kopitar. The whole point of Lucic was to try ro take advantage of Kopitar's last good contract year. He would've been allowed to walk as a UFA. Then DL does what with the savings?

Maybe its the start of a complete rebuild. If Kopitar walks away, Doughty certainly wants out. Could've gotten assets for him, Carter, Brown, and Quick are a still difficult to trade due to the reality of long term for aging players.

No Matthews in 2016, since the Kings were too good, and they didn't have their pick anyway. Who knows who they get in 2017 and 2018. Maybe a homerun, maybe another Hickey. Then of course who knows what takes place in 2019, 2020, and 2021. Byfield, Turcotte, and Clarke wouldn't be here, unless the rebuild isn't getting that steady point improvement DL always loved.

We probably would've ended up with Nolan Patrick and Jesperi Kotkaniemi in 2017 and 2018, to add to Turcotte and Byfield, and been the Oilers pre-McDavid.

 

[TruKingFan]

Most of the people who were Richards apologists were people who tended to be critical of Kopitar and Brown.

The Richards trade, and his subsequent falling apart after 1.5 years did more damage to the franchise long term than the Kopitar contract did. It's not even close really.

The last paragraph cannot be stressed enough. And I’m not even blaming Richards 100% - a big part of that is how Lombardi panicked.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

At this point, Kopitar has put together an HoF career with the Kings and I think we should all just be content with that. And I say that as someone who was very critical of his 8x10 at the time.

We continue to argue about 2014-2017 because so many negative and sudden things happened during those years. The collapse of the Kings deserves its own ESPN special. Richards scandal. Voynov scandal. Stoll scandal. Major backstage power struggles. The team was a dumpster fire behind the scenes for those years, and if affected everyone’s performance, including Lombardi.

I still believe that if the Kings squeak into the playoffs in 2015, so many things change. Missing out on the playoffs a year after their incredible 2012-2014 run was a real stain on the team, and had Lombardi chasing the dragon thereafter.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

The last paragraph cannot be stressed enough. And I’m not even blaming Richards 100% - a big part of that is how Lombardi panicked.

I agree with this. Richards was brought in to be a long term cornerstone center in the franchise. He and Kopitar were supposed to be to the Kings what Yzerman and Federov were to the Wings.

And Richards WAS playing at a high level in the beginning. He was our best center in the 2013 playoffs until the Bolland hit. But he was never the same after.

 

[Sol]

There was many red flags I am sure of it that Lombardi chose to ignore. Those things don’t happen when you have a GM doing his job vs a GM who’s trying to be a friend.

Lombardi built a great team and cratered it as well.

That’s why I get mind blown how people still suck off Sutter and Lombardi. Like they would do any better. They’re off and out for a reason.

That’s my primary gripe around here. It gets extremely contentious and hard to talk about controversial things when the recent history of this team has been steeped in controversy and easily arguable bad moves.

I remember when the Kings signed Quick to that life time contract and I was like what the f*** ? It doesn’t matter to me that the contract ended up not being a problem however, a ten year contract ? Are you kidding me ? For a goalie? That was extremely dumb but lucky it worked out.

Unlike the Gaborik gambles. Bringing in Bishop for nothing. Bringing in Lucic for the moon.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

There was many red flags I am sure of it that Lombardi chose to ignore. Those things don’t happen when you have a GM doing his job vs a GM who’s trying to be a friend.

Lombardi built a great team and cratered it as well.

That’s why I get mind blown how people still suck off Sutter and Lombardi. Like they would do any better. They’re off and out for a reason.

That’s my primary gripe around here. It gets extremely contentious and hard to talk about controversial things when the recent history of this team has been steeped in controversy and easily arguable bad moves.

I remember when the Kings signed Quick to that life time contract and I was like what the f*** ? It doesn’t matter to me that the contract ended up not being a problem however, a ten year contract ? Are you kidding me ? For a goalie? That was extremely dumb but lucky it worked out.

Unlike the Gaborik gambles. Bringing in Bishop for nothing. Bringing in Lucic for the moon.

Can you please take this to the 'Lombardi f***ed this team up' thread? It's like 500 pages by now...

Look at the bright side, you got two cups from the idiot.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

There was many red flags I am sure of it that Lombardi chose to ignore. Those things don’t happen when you have a GM doing his job vs a GM who’s trying to be a friend.

Lombardi built a great team and cratered it as well.

That’s why I get mind blown how people still suck off Sutter and Lombardi. Like they would do any better. They’re off and out for a reason.

That’s my primary gripe around here. It gets extremely contentious and hard to talk about controversial things when the recent history of this team has been steeped in controversy and easily arguable bad moves.

I remember when the Kings signed Quick to that life time contract and I was like what the f*** ? It doesn’t matter to me that the contract ended up not being a problem however, a ten year contract ? Are you kidding me ? For a goalie? That was extremely dumb but lucky it worked out.

Unlike the Gaborik gambles. Bringing in Bishop for nothing. Bringing in Lucic for the moon.

Problem is, you are sitting here 7-8-10 years later going...well of course I wouldn't do that......

Put yourself in that position AT THE TIME OF EVERYTHING HAPPENING.....and go from there....

 

[KINGS17]

Not using the "free" buyout on the Richards contract at the end of the 2013-14 cup run was the beginning of the end for Dean. He realized his mistake too late in regards to treating players as assets.

 

[kings11]

There was many red flags I am sure of it that Lombardi chose to ignore. Those things don’t happen when you have a GM doing his job vs a GM who’s trying to be a friend.

Lombardi built a great team and cratered it as well.

That’s why I get mind blown how people still suck off Sutter and Lombardi. Like they would do any better. They’re off and out for a reason.

That’s my primary gripe around here. It gets extremely contentious and hard to talk about controversial things when the recent history of this team has been steeped in controversy and easily arguable bad moves.

I remember when the Kings signed Quick to that life time contract and I was like what the f*** ? It doesn’t matter to me that the contract ended up not being a problem however, a ten year contract ? Are you kidding me ? For a goalie? That was extremely dumb but lucky it worked out.

Unlike the Gaborik gambles. Bringing in Bishop for nothing. Bringing in Lucic for the moon.

To put it simply…

Dean had the mind of a genius but the heart of a sweet grandmother….

His inability to recognize or failure to in regards to where certain players were in their careers and his mismanagement of future assets doomed the Kings..
He built arguably the best roster SC winning roster of the last 20 years.. but also dwindled it away…
Key glue guys like Mitchell and JDub were never replaced.
The Gabby contract was nuts and he dropped the ball on Mike ( tho I’ll forever love that guys heart)
It was literally no different than what the Lakers did when they jettisoned most of their key Championship winning role players

 

[kingsfan28]

I agree with this. Richards was brought in to be a long term cornerstone center in the franchise. He and Kopitar were supposed to be to the Kings what Yzerman and Federov were to the Wings.

And Richards WAS playing at a high level in the beginning. He was our best center in the 2013 playoffs until the Bolland hit. But he was never the same after.

This. He was never the same. Really sucked because having even a servicible guy a few more years would've helped, even after not buying him out.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Mike Richards sudden decline, the Voynov situation dragging out he whole season, and Quick getting hurt forced DL's hand and the trade deadline failed to pay off on the third go. It happens. Not sure why we dwell on it so much.

 

[Rick Knickleback]

Mike Richards sudden decline, the Voynov situation dragging out he whole season, and Quick getting hurt forced DL's hand and the trade deadline failed to pay off on the third go. It happens. Not sure why we dwell on it so much.

 

[Rick Knickleback]

Just for the sake of reference:
Number of Stanley Cups won by Anze Kopitar when he was the leading scorer (both regular season and playoffs), dominant defensive forward, and with a letter on his jersey: 2

Number of Stanley Cups won by Justin Williams, Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, Jarret Stoll, Matt Greene, Willie Mitchell and Rob Scuderi when not playing on a team with Anze Kopitar when he was the leading scorer (both regular season and playoffs), dominant defensive forward, and with a letter on his jersey: 2.

The idea that Kopitar was "carried": give me a f***Ing break.

His contract is a separate issue. Suffice to say I think Herby nailed it with a couple successive posts above.