Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

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Well I don't think that is exactly fair...he has to work with what Blake gives him. Denault is not a 1C and Byfield isn't even close to being one at this stage in his career. There are no other options in the organization.
The question is… can you win, be a playoff team and still develop your kiddos???

The problem is… TMac is not that coach, the Kings put up a great fight vs the oilers but the vets played the key roles in that while the kids sat or barely played sans Durzi..

He’s the wrong guy for this team…
 
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I'll take some wild guesses here and re-sign some folks:

1. Kempe, 5 years, $5,500,000
2. Lemieux, 2 years, $1,750,000
3. Grundstrom, 2 years, $1,500,000
4. Anderson, 4 years, $3,000,000

That gives us the following roster:

Kempe - Kopitar - Kaliyev
Moore - Danault - Arvidsson
Iafallo - Byfield - Grundstrom
Lemieux - Lizotte - Kupari

Anderson - Doughty
Bjornfot - Clarke
Walker - Roy

Quick
Petersen

That leaves us with over $7,750,000 in cap space for various improvements. The biggest areas for improvement to me at least are a left-shot defenseman (Chychrun? Provorov?), a bottom-six winger with size (Deslauriers?), and a blue-chip goalie prospect.

This roster is missing a few big pieces too: Vilardi, Anderson-Dolan, and Durzi. I could see us moving Kupari and Walker as well. Maybe we send some combination of these players for Jakob Chychrun and Tyler Bertuzzi?

Bertuzzi - Kopitar - Kempe
Moore - Danault - Kaliyev
Iafallo - Byfield - Arvidsson
Lemieux - Lizotte - Grundstrom

Anderson - Doughty
Chychrun - Clarke
Bjornfot - Roy

Quick
Petersen

These moves leave us with just shy of $2,000,000 in cap space (which would likely be used on a 13th forward and 7th defenseman). This would be a very solid roster next season in my opinion.
should we be expecting Clarke to be in the top 4 next year? Honest questions, just wondering when his estimated NHL debut should be.
If he is not ready I would like to see Spence in there.
 
The question is… can you win, be a playoff team and still develop your kiddos???

The problem is… TMac is not that coach, the Kings put up a great fight vs the oilers but the vets played the key roles in that while the kids sat or barely played sans Durzi..

He’s the wrong guy for this team…
He's been given a dual mandate by the organization...make the playoffs is the top mandate; develop the kids is a distant second. Your ire should reside with the people who gave him the dual mandate...not with the coach carrying out what he was told to do.
 
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should we be expecting Clarke to be in the top 4 next year? Honest questions, just wondering when his estimated NHL debut should be.
If he is not ready I would like to see Spence in there.

That's going to be the topic all summer given that he's not eligible for the AHL next year. Its only going to be guesses until he shows up to training camp.
 
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He's been given a dual mandate by the organization...make the playoffs is the top mandate; develop the kids is a distant second. Your ire should reside with the people who gave him the dual mandate...not with the coach carrying out what he was told to do.
It’s not ire towards him, just his unwillingness to take that require leap of faith..
what purpose does playing Kopitar Dman minutes serve? He looked worn out this season.. that’s what Danault was for..
why keep playing Iafallo and Edler if they’re struggling and when you know they’re still injured?
Too many why’s when it comes to his decision making as a coach that has nothing to do with Blake and Co.
 
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I half agree with this point. The counterpoint I will offer is that signing effective veterans helps insulate prospects, and not doing so can lead to stunted rebuilds like Ottawa, Edmonton (prior to nuclear McDavid/Draisatl and signing effective vets like Hyman), and Buffalo. Particularly with respect to Danault, I don't think we see the success we had in our developing young defensemen like Anderson, Durzi, Spence, etc. without those signings. Their defensive responsibility and ability to attack in transition helped take the pressure off of our defensemen so they could learn the ropes easier. There is also the fact that we were missing contributors in the key middle age group between Kopitar/Doughty and the kids, and Danault/Arvidsson/Edler helped players like Kempe, Moore, and Roy develop into real, contributing players in that respect.

I see a player like Danault as similar to adding Greene and Stoll. Arvidsson and Edler are shorter-term, a la the pre-Cup teams adding Smyth and O'Donnell. I do, however, agree that you can't have your cake and eat it to. Their roles in the top 6 take spots away from prospects, and without a firm instruction to play them up in the lineup sink-or-swim, TMac wasn't going to do that.

Signing veterans to insulate young players is fine, but it is signing Scott Thornton and Sean O'Donnell for 2 years to play smaller roles. Danault was signed for 5 years to be the teams #2C, when you already had a $10m center for 3 more years. Danault was signed because the organization ceased to believe that Vilardi and Turcotte could play those roles in the future. No team in this league is going to block players it used a #5 and #11 on for 5 years (until aged 25 and 27) if they thought those players still had a shot to play the roles expected of them when they were drafted.

I also think its a little bit of a stretch to give credit to PD and VA for the defense development. Anderson was very good in college and established himself as a solid NHL'er at 21 long before he ever played with PD. Spence put together a very solid junior season and was one of the best offensive blueliners in the AHL before ever coming up to the Kings. The Kings just have a much better ability to evaluate, develop and deploy defenseman they they do with forwards, the results are just so drastically different its amazing to even think about how it's possible.
 
Signing veterans to insulate young players is fine, but it is signing Scott Thornton and Sean O'Donnell for 2 years to play smaller roles. Danault was signed for 5 years to be the teams #2C, when you already had a $10m center for 3 more years. Danault was signed because the organization ceased to believe that Vilardi and Turcotte could play those roles in the future. No team in this league is going to block players it used a #5 and #11 on for 5 years (until aged 25 and 27) if they thought those players still had a shot to play the roles expected of them when they were drafted.

I also think its a little bit of a stretch to give credit to PD and VA for the defense development. Anderson was very good in college and established himself as a solid NHL'er at 21 long before he ever played with PD. Spence put together a very solid junior season and was one of the best offensive blueliners in the AHL before ever coming up to the Kings. The Kings just have a much better ability to evaluate, develop and deploy defenseman they they do with forwards, the results are just so drastically different its amazing to even think about how it's possible.
I guess the way I look at the Danault signing when it happened is that in today's NHL you need a top 9 that scores. It's rare to see a true shutdown 3rd line on contending teams anymore; it's a blend, and PD is one of the best at doing both as we saw this year. Whether Danualt is your #2A or #2B center, you're making your team better over what you hope is the beginning of our contending window when he will still be playing excellent hockey. I do agree that they no longer see Vilardi as a center, and frankly Turcotte's injury history has him in the same spot.

On the development of our defense, your disagreement is fair. Prior to Danault's line this year, the only time our defense had a break from predominantly defensive zone time was when Kopitar's line was on the ice. I believe Blake/TMac's assembly of the entirely new 2nd line helped tilt the ice back in our favor, which gave them a chance to develop in more equitable game situations. I think Bjornfot is the best example of the opposite of this, as he was brought up sooner when we were getting crushed at more minutes 5v5. Despite his obvious talent, he's had a less than smooth transition leading to being benched to end the year. Anderson sort of arrived in the middle, but Durzi and Spence joined a team that controlled the play at 5v5 much better than when Bjornfot broke through, and the biggest reason for improvement was PD and VA.
 
I think some other questions might be... which kiddos are they really looking to develop, what's the timeline and what are the priorities?

All fair questions but if the fans here have to answer it...we haven't been given any indication that any of the prospects are going to be seeing more development time. If anything, it's gotten worse as time has gone on. I'll believe it when they start making roster spots available for kids.

The only thing we've been able to glean was a Rob Blake comment in passing that they need Kaliyev to be a top-sixer next year.
 
All fair questions but if the fans here have to answer it...we haven't been given any indication that any of the prospects are going to be seeing more development time. If anything, it's gotten worse as time has gone on. I'll believe it when they start making roster spots available for kids.

The only thing we've been able to glean was a Rob Blake comment in passing that they need Kaliyev to be a top-sixer next year.
The cap is going to force things like Kaliyev into the top6 & kids getting more time.
 
All fair questions but if the fans here have to answer it...we haven't been given any indication that any of the prospects are going to be seeing more development time. If anything, it's gotten worse as time has gone on. I'll believe it when they start making roster spots available for kids.

The only thing we've been able to glean was a Rob Blake comment in passing that they need Kaliyev to be a top-sixer next year.
I honestly don't see any of the prospects being good enough next year to address the obvious roster shortcomings. Byfield will be gifted the 3C spot but I have real doubts that he is ready for it at this point. I also don't see Kaliyev being ready to be a full-time top 3/6 forward next year despite the progress he made this year. Beyond those two, I don't see anyone ready to play in the NHL next year in a capacity that will actually improve the team.

Blake needs to make some bold moves to bring in a true top line winger and a true top 4 LHD from outside the organization. I have strong doubts about his ability or willingness to do so. He is cautious and risk-averse by nature. But if he doesn't I can easily see next year being a year of regression.
 
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I honestly don't see any of the prospects being good enough next year to address the obvious roster shortcomings. Byfield will be gifted the 3C spot but I have real doubts that he is ready for it at this point. I also don't see Kaliyev being ready to be a full-time top 3/6 forward next year despite the progress he made this year. Beyond those two, I don't see anyone ready to play in the NHL next year in a capacity that will actually improve the team.

Blake needs to make some bold moves to bring in a true top line winger and a true top 4 LHD from outside the organization. I have strong doubts about his ability or willingness to do so. He is cautious and risk-averse by nature. But if he doesn't I can easily see next year being a year of regression.
If they give the young players a bigger role you can expect a regression. Rebuilding teams usually take a bit to get better. Look at the Detroit team led by Seider. Far from the playoffs. Ducks led by Zegras. Far from the playoffs. Ottawa led by Stutzle and Tkachuk. Habs this year led by Caufield and Suzuki. Rebuilding teams dont do what the Kings are doing. Giving the young players opportunity has to happen. If not they may as well trade them.
 
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If they give the young players a bigger role you can expect a regression. Rebuilding teams usually take a bit to get better. Look at the Detroit team led by Seider. Far from the playoffs. Ducks led by Zegras. Far from the playoffs. Ottawa led by Stutzle and Tkachuk. Habs this year led by Caufield and Suzuki. Rebuilding teams dont do what the Kings are doing. Giving the young players opportunity has to happen. If not they may as well trade them.
It is not in the Kings plan to regress next year.
 
I honestly don't see any of the prospects being good enough next year to address the obvious roster shortcomings. Byfield will be gifted the 3C spot but I have real doubts that he is ready for it at this point. I also don't see Kaliyev being ready to be a full-time top 3/6 forward next year despite the progress he made this year. Beyond those two, I don't see anyone ready to play in the NHL next year in a capacity that will actually improve the team.

Blake needs to make some bold moves to bring in a true top line winger and a true top 4 LHD from outside the organization. I have strong doubts about his ability or willingness to do so. He is cautious and risk-averse by nature. But if he doesn't I can easily see next year being a year of regression.
I mean Kaliyev scoring 14 goals in a bottom 6 role for a good majority of the season is pretty impressive, not hard to imagine he could score even more with better linemates and playing a more offensive focused role

It is not in the Kings plan to regress next year.
And yet the veterans will be another year older and the kids still not in a position to take over, may not be in their plans but not out of the question. Wouldn't be surprised if teams like Ottawa, Buffalo, and Detroit are better in the near future and stay better for longer than the Kings
 
I mean Kaliyev scoring 14 goals in a bottom 6 role for a good majority of the season is pretty impressive, not hard to imagine he could score even more with better linemates and playing a more offensive focused role
Playing on the top line brings a whole new level of pressure, responsiblity, and expectations that he may not be ready for. If he struggles in that role then the team struggles. I'd rather see a proven scorer added to the top line.
 
Playing on the top line brings a whole new level of pressure, responsiblity, and expectations that he may not be ready for. If he struggles in that role then the team struggles. I'd rather see a proven scorer added to the top line.
That's what he did all of this past season though, his development was to work on everything else other than his shot and by the end of the season he had near elite levels of board play, how much longer can he stay there? Hide the rookies all you want, they're gonna need to sink or swim sooner or later.
 
It is not in the Kings plan to regress next year.
They may not have a choice. Theres not too much available that can make them into a contender. Say next year the Danault line regresses and they trade assets to help a core led by Kopitar and Iafallo. Theyd be screwing up the future for no shot at the cup.
The fact that Blake didnt move any pieces for rentals this year makes one think he has to know the older core isnt gonna win at this moment.
 
That's what he did all of this past season though, his development was to work on everything else other than his shot and by the end of the season he had near elite levels of board play, how much longer can he stay there? Hide the rookies all you want, they're gonna need to sink or swim sooner or later.
Move him up in the lineup...3rd line...maybe even 2nd line. Let him grow. But for crying out loud, don't have your season depend on him getting 30 goals next year. Get a proven scorer. The Kings can certainly find room in their lineup for Kaliyev AND a proven 30 goal scorer.
 
All fair questions but if the fans here have to answer it...we haven't been given any indication that any of the prospects are going to be seeing more development time. If anything, it's gotten worse as time has gone on. I'll believe it when they start making roster spots available for kids.

The only thing we've been able to glean was a Rob Blake comment in passing that they need Kaliyev to be a top-sixer next year.
It’s a shame we don’t have anyone that thinks to ask about prospect usage/development.

Some day.
 
It’s a shame we don’t have anyone that thinks to ask about prospect usage/development.

Some day.

It's way easier to smugly mock the fans for openly wondering what's going on when not given clear answers.

If you give the answers, how are you supposed to pretend you're better than everyone?

Click the link to find out:
 
The Kings media coverage has always been borderline pathetic to those who aren’t casual fans, even during the cup years when interest was peaked.

Same generic questions recycled over & over, without any sort of depth to the inquisition.

Yawn.
 
I mean Kaliyev scoring 14 goals in a bottom 6 role for a good majority of the season is pretty impressive, not hard to imagine he could score even more with better linemates and playing a more offensive focused role


And yet the veterans will be another year older and the kids still not in a position to take over, may not be in their plans but not out of the question. Wouldn't be surprised if teams like Ottawa, Buffalo, and Detroit are better in the near future and stay better for longer than the Kings
I think Kaliyev has the most potential to break out next year. His goal scoring touch is just that good. He's also filling out the rest of his game very well. I'm impressed that he's not as one dimensional as he was being touted.

I think he's probably going to have similiar statistics to Tyler Toffoli when all is said and done. Toff had 51 points in 58 games for Manchester when he was 20-21 years old. Kaliyev had 31 points in 40 games at 19-20 years old. When Toffoli was 21-22 he had 29 points in 62 games for the Kings. Kaliyev had 27 points in 80 games at 19-20 years old. Figure he's maybe a year behind in terms of development. I am going to say Kaliyev reaches 20 goals next year and between 35-40 points.
 
It’s a shame we don’t have anyone that thinks to ask about prospect usage/development.

Some day.

Could you imagine the kind of questions Blake would be getting in a Canadian market about the struggles of all his high picks?

Being the GM of the Kings has to be one of the least stressful GM jobs in American sports. No media pressure, your really good friend is the boss, your best friend from college works under you along with a bunch of your other buddies.
 
The problem this season was they went for the playoffs (and accomplished their goal), but it was at the expense of more development for the youth. In 2020-21 the Kings gave Gabe Vilardi a no-pressure situation to be the 2C, it was ultimately a failure but he was at least given the opportunity in a low pressure setting. This season there was no opportunity for QB to have that type of role because the team was trying to win, and QB, Vilardi and Turcotte were simply not helping the team win games this year.

This is why I kind of struggle to see how people wanted things to be different with the youth while still cheering on the vet signings this summer. Signing PD and VA were moves made to help the team make the playoffs, not to make life easier for young players. The end goal this season was the playoffs and not youth development, and by the end of the year it was apparent that guys like Lizotte, AA, Grundstrom and Lemieux were going to help them make the playoffs more than QB, Vilardi, Turcotte, Fagemo etc were.

These lineups that had a rookie on each line, or an even distribution of ice time between AK, PD and QB are great in the big picture but terrible for their immediate goal of making the playoffs in 2021-2022.
There was no development cost. You have to make these guys earn it. No better development than a seven game series of battling. They were given opportunities and they were not ready. All these young players will be better next year after that series. You need guys that get you into the playoffs and not to bring youth into a non playoff losing environment. i was all fire firing Blake and Mac in November but the new guys integrated and it was very entertaining watching them battle. Exceeded with 6th place and taking EdMOANtown to 7. A very successful season development included but not yet apparent. Blake needs to do what he did last year target guys hiding in the weeds that have a reasonable acquisition and signing cost and can play a role on the kings and have success not buy high like a Chycrun.
 
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