Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[KingsHockey24]

We never got to see the Lias/Vilardo/Tkachev line which makes me sad.

Though Andersson is a bum and Vilardi probably busts at this point.

 

[All The Kings Men]

We're all happy that we could be watching Kings playoff games this season. But at the same time we remember 2017-2018. Some career high years for players, then a short playoff appearance, then Lotto city after that since. Some of us are hoping that this is more 2010 Kings, but we'll see what this offseason brings. I find it incredibly hard to believe that the Kings mis-evaluate forward talent year after year after year when that talent performs well in juniors and even the AHL, but doesn't on the big club. And if that is the case people need to be fired regardless. Whether it's the development staff or the people making the draft choices.

I have said time and time again and I'll say it here once more...

The problem doesn't necessarily have to be with scouting or with development.

The team doesn't make "playing young forward prospects" a priority.

Even with players like Kempe, Pearson and Toffoli... the team almost always leaned towards playing veterans in their place until the option was no longer viable.

In the first two games of the 2014 series against the Sharks, Tanner Pearson was benched in favor of Jordan Nolan and Toffoli played most of the time with Stoll and King.

 

[All The Kings Men]

I cant speak for others but I was expecting the kids to play meaningful roles until they brought in Danult Arvidsson Tkachev and brought back AA and Lizotte. After that I had no more expectation of it and still dont have any idea as to what next seasons team will look like.

Right.

So if anybody else maintained their original expectations... that's on them.

 

[All The Kings Men]

I didn't come up with it all by myself.

Opening night roster forwards featured Kaliyev, Vilardi, the next layer of Andersson/Grundstrom/Lizotte and Byfield HAD made it but got hurt. But the youth got minimized in short order.

It's not crazy to think that a franchise that has been accumulating top picks for several years and are having some of them come up on their mid-20s would start integrating them in key roles, but that really just...didn't happen. It's hardly even happening at the AHL level, where some top prospects aren't getting regular PP time in favor of near-30 vets.

In short, the franchise thought they were good enough to include them on the opening night roster, then abruptly went back to their security blankets.

I concede that it was surprising that they brought Athanasiou back and acquired Arvidsson and Danault

But once they did you have to adjust and see that they had like 18 forwards with professional experience.

Kaliyev (if I recall correctly) made the opening night roster due to injuries and never left.

Byfield would have been given a shot but got hurt.

Injuries/COVID make it really really hard to evaluate anything.

I expected that they would have to move three or four guys at some point because it was simply too many players but it turns out they never did because it feels like everybody went to IR/Protocol at some point

 

[cyclones22]

I have said time and time again and I'll say it here once more...

The problem doesn't necessarily have to be with scouting or with development.

The team doesn't make "playing young forward prospects" a priority.

Even with players like Kempe, Pearson and Toffoli... the team almost always leaned towards playing veterans in their place until the option was no longer viable.

In the first two games of the 2014 series against the Sharks, Tanner Pearson was benched in favor of Jordan Nolan and Toffoli played most of the time with Stoll and King.

Well Jesse I think that's obvious. But I'm reading here and from the folks on TV is the kids need to step up, they're not playing well enough etc etc. Not you, personally. If we're not allowed to blame the coaching staff or Blake in this case, then who's responsible for forwards not panning out? It's blaming the players at this point.

Many of us see that this franchise is not prioritizing forward prospects. Part of the reason why this team is constantly in the bottom of the league in scoring. That's a problem, especially when your one franchise forward is playing well below his normal level and he's encroaching on 35 years old. You need to be grooming his successor, since you drafted three centers with top picks in the first round and none of them are playing top 6 or even top 9 minutes.

Maybe the youth movement will happen next season if they make the playoffs. Maybe that will relieve some of the pressure of breaking the playoff drought and some of the kids who cut their teeth this season will be given more opportunity. That fantasy is all we have to hold on to because as you said this franchise doesn't prioritize playing young forwards prospects.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Well Jesse I think that's obvious. But I'm reading here and from the folks on TV is the kids need to step up, they're not playing well enough etc etc. Not you, personally. If we're not allowed to blame the coaching staff or Blake in this case, then who's responsible for forwards not panning out? It's blaming the players at this point.

Many of us see that this franchise is not prioritizing forward prospects. Part of the reason why this team is constantly in the bottom of the league in scoring. That's a problem, especially when your one franchise forward is playing well below his normal level and he's encroaching on 35 years old. You need to be grooming his successor, since you drafted three centers with top picks in the first round and none of them are playing top 6 or even top 9 minutes.

Maybe the youth movement will happen next season if they make the playoffs. Maybe that will relieve some of the pressure of breaking the playoff drought and some of the kids who cut their teeth this season will be given more opportunity. That fantasy is all we have to hold on to because as you said this franchise doesn't prioritize playing young forwards prospects.

You can absolutely blame the coaching staff or the general manager.

I just don't like the A/B presentation of the dilemma as "It's either scouting OR development".

It ignores the issue you just brought up... which is how the players are used.


I know he's not a "prospect" but look at Trevor Moore.

The scouting staff identified him as a player to ask for.
The General Manager acquired him.
The coaching staff worked with him in practice.

But it took a year and a half for him to wind up in a position where he has turned into a player nobody ever expected.

Todd McLellan has said that the coaching staff bears responsibility for that delay.

So why, when talking about a prospect that hasn't turned into Trevor Moore yet, is it always "there's either a flaw with the scouts or the development team and THAT'S IT"

I'm just saying be more open minded and creative with the criticism and negativity.

 

[cyclones22]

You can absolutely blame the coaching staff or the general manager.

I just don't like the A/B presentation of the dilemma as "It's either scouting OR development".

It ignores the issue you just brought up... which is how the players are used.


I know he's not a "prospect" but look at Trevor Moore.

The scouting staff identified him as a player to ask for.
The General Manager acquired him.
The coaching staff worked with him in practice.

But it took a year and a half for him to wind up in a position where he has turned into a player nobody ever expected.

Todd McLellan has said that the coaching staff bears responsibility for that delay.

So why, when talking about a prospect that hasn't turned into Trevor Moore yet, is it always "there's either a flaw with the scouts or the development team and THAT'S IT"

I'm just saying be more open minded and creative with the criticism and negativity.

It's understandable that you're not familiar with my viewpoint on this. I absolutely blame the coaching staff and leadership. I'm not going to laundry list everything I've said on this. But I've already gone down that path. I just decided I would go down a different one this time for the hell of it.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Well Jesse I think that's obvious. But I'm reading here and from the folks on TV is the kids need to step up, they're not playing well enough etc etc. Not you, personally. If we're not allowed to blame the coaching staff or Blake in this case, then who's responsible for forwards not panning out? It's blaming the players at this point.

Many of us see that this franchise is not prioritizing forward prospects. Part of the reason why this team is constantly in the bottom of the league in scoring. That's a problem, especially when your one franchise forward is playing well below his normal level and he's encroaching on 35 years old. You need to be grooming his successor, since you drafted three centers with top picks in the first round and none of them are playing top 6 or even top 9 minutes.

Maybe the youth movement will happen next season if they make the playoffs. Maybe that will relieve some of the pressure of breaking the playoff drought and some of the kids who cut their teeth this season will be given more opportunity. That fantasy is all we have to hold on to because as you said this franchise doesn't prioritize playing young forwards prospects.

I’m still missing the point of the complaints (as I usually do I guess), the team is icing the best lineup they possibly can, despite the age, and doing it without trading away any of the ‘prize prospects…what’s wrong with that? The point is to win games and consistently have good players to do that year after year.

Every single top level prospect has been given an opportunity this year to prove they belong in the lineup. Some have done that, some have not…hence needing more time in the ‘A’.

What’s wrong with playing key minutes on the Reign and learning how to win there? Isn’t that part of development? ONT is one of the best teams in the league this year…that’s great stuff for the prospects.

Blake had acquired key players that have helped this team win and given most of the fans (that includes me) reason to watch this team again.

 

[King'sPawn]

You can absolutely blame the coaching staff or the general manager.

I just don't like the A/B presentation of the dilemma as "It's either scouting OR development".

It ignores the issue you just brought up... which is how the players are used.


I know he's not a "prospect" but look at Trevor Moore.

The scouting staff identified him as a player to ask for.
The General Manager acquired him.
The coaching staff worked with him in practice.

But it took a year and a half for him to wind up in a position where he has turned into a player nobody ever expected.

Todd McLellan has said that the coaching staff bears responsibility for that delay.

So why, when talking about a prospect that hasn't turned into Trevor Moore yet, is it always "there's either a flaw with the scouts or the development team and THAT'S IT"

I'm just saying be more open minded and creative with the criticism and negativity.

Okay. We'll blame TMac for mishandling young forwards while he's been here.

What about before him? Desjardins? Stevens? Sutter? Murray?

Being creative apparently involves assuming 5 different coaches and personality ALL make the same mistake and ALL prioritize playing young defensemen over young forwards.

Be more open-minded and creative. Sheesh. Nobody else started questioning this shit years ago. People kept blaming Sutter for the Kings "playing defensively" to explain the low scoring. How is blaming the coaches more creative and open-minded again?

 

[kings11]

Some food for thought…

Examining the heavy hockey trend and whether it's the only path to a Stanley Cup

An in-depth look at how player playoff performance changes based on their relative size and physicality.

theathletic.com

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Some food for thought…

Examining the heavy hockey trend and whether it's the only path to a Stanley Cup

An in-depth look at how player playoff performance changes based on their relative size and physicality.

theathletic.com

Synopsis for those who don't care enough about the Athletic to support it?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I think people are seriously underestimating the "development" part.....of any organization let alone the Kings,

Fans as a general rule, get to see the "finished" product (as much as work in progress players improving can be finished) but generally referring to the games, that's what 90% of us see and that is ALL we see. Sure you can watch some of the practices, but realistically you may only catch a handful of those....

Here's what you don't get to see, game tape sessions, one on one workouts, gym routines, diet help, mental help, interactions with teammates and staff, and secondary staff etc,

It's like we as fans, are trying to guess a 1,000 jigsaw puzzle with....100 pieces...... and I suppose there's nothing wrong with it, but there are certain groups of fans, ones who are ok with seeing the 100 pieces and watching things evolve, ones that see the 100 pieces and think this might turn out pretty damn good, and ones that see the 100 pieces and go, this shit stinks, it's horrible, we have to start over....

Me personally, the last group, is the one that aggravates me the most, which is pretty damn ironic considering the reason why it aggravates me, is because I find that kind of mentality 100% useless......yea, figure that one out.

But to blame development, or scouting, or skill this, or skill that, is blaming the puzzle maker, because whomever is using the puzzle is only showing you 100 pieces, there's so much shit that goes on behind the scenes....

 

[kings11]

Synopsis for those who don't care enough about the Athletic to support it?

Damnit Goldie..
size matters lol.. they mention how heavier, physical teams are more likely to win the SC. Old Kings hockey is how you should mold your team!

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2022/04/16152042/Screen-Shot-2022-04-16-at-3.16.40-PM.png

 

[KingsFan7824]

Damnit Goldie..
size matters lol.. they mention how heavier, physical teams are more likely to win the SC. Old Kings hockey is how you should mold your team!

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2022/04/16152042/Screen-Shot-2022-04-16-at-3.16.40-PM.png

View attachment 534313

Start chasing trends, and you'll miss the next one. However tried and true does work sometimes.

See, there's no right answer. DL is gone because he didn't change with the league. Now it's don't change with the league.

If you win, you're right, whatever you do. If you lose, you're wrong, whatever you do.

 

[kings11]

Start chasing trends, and you'll miss the next one. However tried and true does work sometimes.

See, there's no right answer. DL is gone because he didn't change with the league. Now it's don't change with the league.

If you win, you're right, whatever you do. If you lose, you're wrong, whatever you do.

It’s never been a trend, it’s been a pretty obvious fact..
the past decade has been dominated by heavy, physical teams.. vs say the current favorites in the Avs. You could say the Pens but they also mucked it up and had major moxie
Capitals, Blues and TBL x2… big, heavy, physical

 

[All The Kings Men]

Okay. We'll blame TMac for mishandling young forwards while he's been here.

What about before him? Desjardins? Stevens? Sutter? Murray?

Being creative apparently involves assuming 5 different coaches and personality ALL make the same mistake and ALL prioritize playing young defensemen over young forwards.

Be more open-minded and creative. Sheesh. Nobody else started questioning this shit years ago. People kept blaming Sutter for the Kings "playing defensively" to explain the low scoring. How is blaming the coaches more creative and open-minded again?

Is the criticism that the team doesn't score or that the team doesn't "develop high talent forwards"?

The one I was addressing was the idea that the organization has failed to produce "talented forwards" and as I've said before... they weren't even trying.

Desjardins? lol

 

[All The Kings Men]

How is blaming the coaches more creative and open-minded again?

I'm not suggesting that anybody be "blamed" for anything but my comment about creativity was to say

A problem isn't always a binary proposition.

The Kings lack of young top end forwards doesn't have to be just "development" OR "scouting"

It can be a third explanation. Or a fourth explantaion... or some wild combination of multiple factors.

The world is rarely as simple as "Well the Kings haven't had another Kopitar so therefore... (explanation given here)

 

[deaderhead28]

Folks calm down,this team is in its late rebuilding stage. There's nothing to really get upset over. Just slip some wine,drink a beer or for some a tall glass of warm milk and relax my homes. Kings are not a serioue Stanley Cup contender or will they be one next year. If I can wait from 1982 til 2012,I think many can wait a couple of years lol

 

[KINGS17]

Damnit Goldie..
size matters lol.. they mention how heavier, physical teams are more likely to win the SC. Old Kings hockey is how you should mold your team!

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2022/04/16152042/Screen-Shot-2022-04-16-at-3.16.40-PM.png

View attachment 534313

I am good with a Boston vs Calgary SCF. It would be an interesting series.

I don't think it takes a rocket surgeon to figure out where the Kings appeared on similar charts in 2011-12 through 2013-14.

 

[johnjm22]

Evander Kane with a hat trick tonight. He now has 20 goals in 39 games. 42 goal pace.

He'll be one of the most interesting UFAs this offseason.

 

[King'sPawn]

I'm not suggesting that anybody be "blamed" for anything but my comment about creativity was to say

A problem isn't always a binary proposition.

The Kings lack of young top end forwards doesn't have to be just "development" OR "scouting"

It can be a third explanation. Or a fourth explantaion... or some wild combination of multiple factors.

The world is rarely as simple as "Well the Kings haven't had another Kopitar so therefore... (explanation given here)

So how can development be blamed if drafting is failing to bring in talent?

And how can drafting get blamed if development isn't fulfilling their end?

And how can there be a third or fourth explanation where neither of the aforementioned departments are involved? They are literally the two branches involved with bringing in the talent and preparing them for the NHL.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Evander Kane with a hat trick tonight. He now has 20 goals in 39 games. 42 goal pace.

He'll be one of the most interesting UFAs this offseason.

Man, if the hockey gods care at all, they'll let Edmonton and VGK go down in flames...

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I’m still missing the point of the complaints (as I usually do I guess), the team is icing the best lineup they possibly can, despite the age, and doing it without trading away any of the ‘prize prospects…what’s wrong with that? The point is to win games and consistently have good players to do that year after year.

Every single top level prospect has been given an opportunity this year to prove they belong in the lineup. Some have done that, some have not…hence needing more time in the ‘A’.

What’s wrong with playing key minutes on the Reign and learning how to win there? Isn’t that part of development? ONT is one of the best teams in the league this year…that’s great stuff for the prospects.

Blake had acquired key players that have helped this team win and given most of the fans (that includes me) reason to watch this team again.

Here, I'll try.

First boldfaced: "despite the age" is part of the problem in a rebuild where you're supposed to be giving guys 'meaningful minutes' in a playoff race. Well, that's happening to the defense by injury default--but you have guys like Vilardi in purgatory in neither the NHL OR AHL lineup at the most meaningful possible time (and Byfield JUST got back in on the 4th line), for example.

2nd boldfaced ties in: you and I have very different definitions of 'opportunity.' I'd like to see my offensive 2nd overall draft pick center at least SNIFF the powerplay, or if he's not going to replace the top Cs, get on a line where he can get high ice time and puck touches and not just have to go out for a checking shift every 5th shift at best. How long did it take Iafallo to flunk off the top line to get replaced by kaliyev--and then how quickly did they bonk Kaliyev back down? Why not take that as an opportunity?

3rd boldfaced: there's nothing at all with that other than it's not happening, see above. Also, keep in mind OTHER top prospects weren't even getting PP time in Ontario! What other organization keeps a 5th overall off both PP units?!?

The whole organization is showing no thought or creativity here and simply defaulting to whoever is oldest goes in the lineup in descending order. The major complaint is they're mortgaging the future for the present--but instead of coughing up assets to do it, they're just letting the assets rot, instead.

Edit: and maybe theyre doing this with one eye closely on the future, like as early as next year--but you can understand why we're pessimistic with this recent cabinet's history as well as the entire org's last 20 years. Would love nothing more than to enter the start of next year having misread this situation terribly.

 

[kings11]

I am good with a Boston vs Calgary SCF. It would be an interesting series.

I don't think it takes a rocket surgeon to figure out where the Kings appeared on similar charts in 2011-12 through 2013-14.

Damn, I’d have to imagine they’d be hits, blood and mayhem if those two met!

 

[AbsentMojo]

Evander Kane with a hat trick tonight. He now has 20 goals in 39 games. 42 goal pace.

He'll be one of the most interesting UFAs this offseason.

I bet youre right