Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread 2022-23 Season

[AbsentMojo]

I think a team like Dallas is potentially instructive as a guide for this team's potential. Our system has more depth, but their cornerstone young talent is a few years older and showing its potential now. They have Benn and Seguin revitalized, and we have Kopitar and Doughty still playing well enough. At the core positions of the future, we line up as such:

Hintz (26) --> Byfield (20) or Kupari (22) or Turcotte (21)
Robertson (23) --> Vilardi (23) or Kaliyev (21)
Heiskanen (23) --> Clarke (19)
Oettinger (23) --> Petersen (27)

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the roster Blake put together is buying time for a handful of our many lottery tickets to hit pay dirt. Everyone thought Dallas's bubble Cup Final run was a fluke, and that they were done for afterwards. They now look like they could challenge for the Cup because of surprise upward trajectories from young players combined with still-effective veterans.

I do echo and agree with the frustration here around forward prospect development, but given Kempe and Vilardi showing well, I am hopeful we'll continue to see progress. Petersen is also still our biggest risk as given his age, contract, and our lack of goalie pipeline depth we'll need to make a trade or shrewd FA signing if he doesn't improve.

Dig the black on dark gray - very readable and easy on the eyes

 

[johnjm22]

People complain about the state of the franchise and it's direction, but the truth is most fans, including most posters around here, don't have the patience to see a rebuild through.

Prior to last year, people had had enough with the losing. Even though losing/tanking is exactly what LA should have been doing, and should have continued to do. Instead they acquired Danault and Arvidsson.

 

[AbsentMojo]

People complain about the state of the franchise and it's direction, but the truth is most fans, including most posters around here, don't have the patience to see a rebuild through.

Prior to last year, people had had enough with the losing. Even though losing/tanking is exactly what LA should have been doing, and should have continued to do. Instead they acquired Danault and Arvidsson.

Is that really true? I remember when Lieweakly and DL made announcement full rebuild was on in 2006 - and all fans I knew were excited about it and patient with it.(edit: Tim Liewiki was actually one of first owner/rep that committed to rebuild, so kudos to him and AEG)

 

[Kurrilino]

Is that really true? I remember when Lieweakly and DL made announcement full rebuild was on in 2006 - and all fans I knew were excited about it and patient with it.(edit: Tim Liewiki was actually one of first owner/rep that committed to rebuild, so kudos to him and AEG)

That was 400 years ago.

Today people scream to upgrade our defense or spend our youngsters on player/goalie X, despite this team going nowhere the next years.

My personal opinion is that as long as Kopitar and Doughty are in the lead, this team has no chance
making any noise.
Last year's veteran reunion tour to the playoff was a disaster from a future development point of view.
The best thing we can do right now is to ride out or somehow trade Kopitar and Doughty and draft well.
We should collect as many picks as wen can and start giving some serious minutes to the youngsters while limiting the vets and see what happens.
Nothing else should be priority.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think people here have PLENTY of patience to see an actual rebuild through.

It's not a rebuild when you're still riding your 1C drafted 15 years ago.

 

[Kurrilino]

Define an ACTUAL contender......for all the bullshit people sling......

Was Montreal an ACTUAL contender the year....it...you know, CONTENDED for the cup?

Nope, this is what you call a Cinderella run.
They got introduced to reality right next season

 

[King'sPawn]

People complain about the state of the franchise and it's direction, but the truth is most fans, including most posters around here, don't have the patience to see a rebuild through.

Prior to last year, people had had enough with the losing. Even though losing/tanking is exactly what LA should have been doing, and should have continued to do. Instead they acquired Danault and Arvidsson.

People get tired of losing when management keeps leaning on the vets to win. Shocker, I know.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I think people here have PLENTY of patience to see an actual rebuild through.

It's not a rebuild when you're still riding your 1C drafted 15 years ago.

So....Dallas.....didn't do it right?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

So....Dallas.....didn't do it right?

Dallas' most time on ice go to Miro Heiskanen and Jason Robertson, both 23. Their most important players are early-to-mid 20s and their franchise goalie is early 20s.

They have vets as complementary players and their draft pick that you're trying to use as a gotcha--Benn--isn't even getting 15 minutes a game.

I'd argue they didn't even really try to rebuild and they're still doing it better than us currently.

 

[mysterman2]

You can ask the same question, how many more Ls would the team have with Spence and Bjornfoot.....

Which 3 Dmen do you think are not NHL Dmen.....

Durzi defensively, Walker & Edler.

Could Edler even be Colorados #6 dman?

 

[King'sPawn]

People get tired of losing when management keeps leaning on the vets to win. Shocker, I know.

To add, here are the average ice time leaders on the Kings in the 2020-21 season. I omitted players who played less than half a season (<28 GP).

Drew Doughty
Anze Kopitar
Mikey Anderson
Alex Iafallo
Matt Roy
Sean Walker
Dustin Brown
Adrian Kempe
Tobias Bjornfot
Olli Maatta
Jeff Carter
Andreas Athanasiou
Gabriel Vilardi
Trevor Moore
Jaret Anderson-Dolan
Kurtis MacDermid
Blake Lizotte
Carl Grundstrom
Austin Wagner

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Durzi defensively, Walker & Edler.

Could Edler even be Colorados #6 dman?

No idea who their 6th man is, so maybe?

But for clarity purposes, you think if Sean Walker gets waived today.....no one claims him.....due to talent...not cap reasons...

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Dallas' most time on ice go to Miro Heiskanen and Jason Robertson, both 23. Their most important players are early-to-mid 20s and their franchise goalie is early 20s.

They have vets as complementary players and their draft pick that you're trying to use as a gotcha--Benn--isn't even getting 15 minutes a game.

I'd argue they didn't even really try to rebuild and they're still doing it better than us currently.

This year, last year it was Heiskanen and Pavelski......year before that the same....and Seguin and Benn etc....

Hesikanen, Robertson, 23...........Vilardi, 23 Robertson 17 minutese of ice, Vilardi, 16 minutes of ice....we don't have a Hintz, maybe Kempe? We sure as hell don't have a Heiskanen right now....

Can we revisit this when Kaliyev, Byfield, Kupari, are 23 etc?

 

[Statto]

Really enjoying this thread and was thinking about this but the issue was Blake didnt start the season with the best possible lineup he could have. His past contract decisions are solely to blame. Im a Blake supporter- hes done well in the drafts and brought in the next wave of players- but some of his contract decisions have proven horrible and we can only speculate- how many more Ws would the team have with Spence and Bjornfot?

Ive beaten the horse to the ground but we have 3 dmen who are at or below the minimum required level to be a full time NHL level player and can play the median level of Defense to succeed while we have 2 in Ontario that helped last years team win tight checking low scoring games and proven themselves more than capable. I Like Blake but he is at fault here. How he remedies the situation will go a long way to prove his worth as GM. Tough Decisions ahead but has tools and asset to make something happen.

I agree some of the contracts are an issue but…

Petersens didn’t need signing so quickly and whilst it wasn’t universally approved of by fans, fairly mixed IIRC, he was trending upwards when it was signed. It wasn’t viewed nearly as badly then as it is now with 20/20 hindsight. I’ll go further with Walker because the majority definitely thought it was a good deal at the time and whilst I’d happily waive him now, he has gotten very unlucky with injuries. Until the injury problems he’s another that was trending in the right direction.

I don’t think the Walker contract was bad at the time and the Peterson one was at least understandable, if we’re objective. However I completely agree that players need to be moved and space made for the 2 of the 3 NHL calibre D men in Ontario.

I can’t find the thread for his current contract but this thread almost exactly 3 years ago was overly optimistic from many of us: What is Sean Walker?

Even Sol, thought he might have top pairing upside but most likely second pair. That’s not a dig at Sol, it’s just that he generally more measured in his predictions of success.

 

[Fishhead]

To add, here are the average ice time leaders on the Kings in the 2020-21 season. I omitted players who played less than half a season (<28 GP).

Drew Doughty
Anze Kopitar
Mikey Anderson
Alex Iafallo
Matt Roy
Sean Walker
Dustin Brown
Adrian Kempe
Tobias Bjornfot
Olli Maatta
Jeff Carter
Andreas Athanasiou
Gabriel Vilardi
Trevor Moore
Jaret Anderson-Dolan
Kurtis MacDermid
Blake Lizotte
Carl Grundstrom
Austin Wagner

I don't think most are really upset with the actual makeup of the team, like you said it's just how much they play.

I will say we are seeing a shift, though. While management might seem to be relying on vets to win games, I really don't. I fully expect guys like Vilardi, Anderson, and Kaliyev (primarily on the PP) to lead to wins as much as I do guys like Moore and Arvidsson. Things are definitely evolving.

The hardest thing during a season is trying to see the whole picture and not get caught up in those 2-3 game sequences where things deteriorate. Every team goes through those. I think the big expectation this year was to thin the prospect pool and acquire some players in the right spots and age range to continue that evolution. That's been my biggest disappointment so far.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I agree some of the contracts are an issue but…

Petersens didn’t need signing so quickly and whilst it wasn’t universally approved of by fans, fairly mixed IIRC, he was trending upwards when it was signed. It wasn’t viewed nearly as badly then as it is now with 20/20 hindsight. I’ll go further with Walker because the majority definitely thought it was a good deal at the time and whilst I’d happily waive him now, he has gotten very unlucky with injuries. Until the injury problems he’s another that was trending in the right direction.

I don’t think the Walker contract was bad at the time and the Peterson one was at least understandable, if we’re objective. However I completely agree that players need to be moved and space made for the 2 of the 3 NHL calibre D men in Ontario.

I can’t find the thread for his current contract but this thread almost exactly 3 years ago was overly optimistic from many of us: What is Sean Walker?

Even Sol, thought he might have top pairing upside but most likely second pair. That’s not a dig at Sol, it’s just that he generally more measured in his predictions of success.

Petersen was a UFA after 21-22, and re-signed in Sept of 21. With Quick 35, and a $5.8m cap hit for 2 more years. And ss you said, his numbers weren't awful. So he actually had the leverage at the time. Sure, the contract could've waited, but if he plays even decently, now you have an even more expensive goalie to re-sign, while a 35 year old Quick at $5.8m is sitting there.

Petersen is just one of a long list of bad results post-contract for the Kings, dating back to at least Brown in 2013, if not Quick in 2012.

 

[BringTheReign]

Dig the black on dark gray - very readable and easy on the eyes

I'm a troglodyte for not using the site on dark mode apparently. I changed it all back to the base font color except the red and green.

 

[mysterman2]

No idea who their 6th man is, so maybe?

But for clarity purposes, you think if Sean Walker gets waived today.....no one claims him.....due to talent...not cap reasons...

I would be shocked if he were claimed....even if he were making league minimum probably clears.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The reality is that they had zero intention of rebuilding before the team went to crap at the start of 18-19. Quick was 32 with 4 full years left. Kopitar 31 with 5 full years left, and a NMC. Doughty, almost 29, with 8 full years left. Those guys aren't easily traded at the time, because of cap implications. They were never in a position like Chicago this year, where contracts are up, when they decide to officially rebuild.

This was never going to be a 2006 rebuild. The two situations couldn't be any different. Contractually, historically, prospectally. I don't believe the Kings had any long term contracts back then. Visnovsky got screwed over only after signing his deal in 2007.

That Kopitar and Doughty play as much as they do is on the coach. Of course the coach is on the GM, but I don't want a GM dictating who should be on the ice. It didn't work for Brad Pitt, it's not going to work now. If you hire a coach, he needs to have control. I couldn't care less if TM was fired today, but whoever the coach is, he has to be able to coach the team how he wants to.

As long as TM is at least somewhat successful with higher expectations, they're probably not going to fire him.

 

[King'sPawn]

I'm a troglodyte for not using the site on dark mode apparently.

I need to for as much as I get migraines and the work I do.

I actually miss the brighter colors, and don't blame people for sticking with it.

I don't think most are really upset with the actual makeup of the team, like you said it's just how much they play.

I will say we are seeing a shift, though. While management might seem to be relying on vets to win games, I really don't. I fully expect guys like Vilardi, Anderson, and Kaliyev (primarily on the PP) to lead to wins as much as I do guys like Moore and Arvidsson. Things are definitely evolving.

The hardest thing during a season is trying to see the whole picture and not get caught up in those 2-3 game sequences where things deteriorate. Every team goes through those. I think the big expectation this year was to thin the prospect pool and acquire some players in the right spots and age range to continue that evolution. That's been my biggest disappointment so far.

I would have an easier time buying the "bigger picture" if we saw a better semblance of big-picture action and decision-making. Let's take Kaliyev, for example:
- Yannetti has basically said they prefer to slow-boil prospects. I see the merits to it, but I also believe people learn and grow differently. I think they lack flexibility in this department, but let's say this works for Kaliyev. He's put on the fourth line and occasional powerplay time on the second unit.
- Kaliyev adapts. He develops his game to include playing better along the boards and playing physical. He spends over a season playing with Lizotte. He's a sniper who uses his size to forecheck. And he has one of the best scoring rates of all players. That means he gets more ice time, right?
- Well... no. See, now people are saying he looks better playing on the line he's spent the majority of his NHL career with than in much smaller sample sizes with any other players or lines. He's also not getting increased powerplay time, despite following the adage of "paying his dues."

Wouldn't bigger picture thinking putting him in bigger responsibilities and letting him apply his learned skills with new linemates? He might struggle a bit as he adjusts to new linemates, but if they are expecting him to be a top-six forward, wouldn't "big picture" involve giving him time to acclimate into his new roles and responsibilities? Instead, with a small sample, it's decided that he needs to stay where he's most productive? Of course he's more productive on the fourth line. He's had a whole season+ on a line with them.

 

[YAYSAY]

I need to for as much as I get migraines and the work I do.

I actually miss the brighter colors, and don't blame people for sticking with it.


I would have an easier time buying the "bigger picture" if we saw a better semblance of big-picture action and decision-making. Let's take Kaliyev, for example:
- Yannetti has basically said they prefer to slow-boil prospects. I see the merits to it, but I also believe people learn and grow differently. I think they lack flexibility in this department, but let's say this works for Kaliyev. He's put on the fourth line and occasional powerplay time on the second unit.
- Kaliyev adapts. He develops his game to include playing better along the boards and playing physical. He spends over a season playing with Lizotte. He's a sniper who uses his size to forecheck. And he has one of the best scoring rates of all players. That means he gets more ice time, right?
- Well... no. See, now people are saying he looks better playing on the line he's spent the majority of his NHL career with than in much smaller sample sizes with any other players or lines. He's also not getting increased powerplay time, despite following the adage of "paying his dues."

Wouldn't bigger picture thinking putting him in bigger responsibilities and letting him apply his learned skills with new linemates? He might struggle a bit as he adjusts to new linemates, but if they are expecting him to be a top-six forward, wouldn't "big picture" involve giving him time to acclimate into his new roles and responsibilities? Instead, with a small sample, it's decided that he needs to stay where he's most productive? Of course he's more productive on the fourth line. He's had a whole season+ on a line with them.

Yeah I really don't get it, the whole thing about Kaliyev last year was "paying his dues." Let's say they re-sign Moore next season, the top 6 is still locked up, are they gonna keep him on the 4th line again all next season? He was projected to be in the top 6 this season already. The argument is always that he has better chemistry with Lizotte, well of course he does because that's who he has played the vast majority of his time with, he then gets a few shifts with Danault or Kopi, doesn't immediately score and then people say "he sucks anytime he's moved up."

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Yeah I really don't get it, the whole thing about Kaliyev last year was "paying his dues." Let's say they re-sign Moore next season, the top 6 is still locked up, are they gonna keep him on the 4th line again all next season? He was projected to be in the top 6 this season already. The argument is always that he has better chemistry with Lizotte, well of course he does because that's who he has played the vast majority of his time with, he then gets a few shifts with Danault or Kopi, doesn't immediately score and then people say "he sucks anytime he's moved up."

Kaliyev need someone on his line who can go into corners, dig pucks out, win those board battles, while he hangs out in the slot, the circles etc, and is ready for that kind of shot etc....

Now...WHO on the team does that?

 

[YAYSAY]

Kaliyev need someone on his line who can go into corners, dig pucks out, win those board battles, while he hangs out in the slot, the circles etc, and is ready for that kind of shot etc....

Now...WHO on the team does that?

Fiala, Vilardi, Grundstrum, Kopi, Moore, Danault...

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Fiala, Vilardi, Grundstrum, Kopi, Moore, Danault...

Fiala, no, not his game.
Vilardi, ok, I can see that
Grundstrom, not really his game, but he can do that,
Kopitar, his game is more controlled possession, he rarely takes away the puck from someone....EDIT I might be wrong on him, he's got the 3rd most takeways on the team.....I never viewed that as his game however
Moore
Danault, no, his game is in front of the net....

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I can’t find the thread for his current contract but this thread almost exactly 3 years ago was overly optimistic from many of us: What is Sean Walker?

Even Sol, thought he might have top pairing upside but most likely second pair. That’s not a dig at Sol, it’s just that he generally more measured in his predictions of success.

Was it, though?

He was thriving in those roles until his rough injury. And unfortunately his game was/is predicated on mobility. We wont see him at his best again until later this season/next season if at all.

I think most people had him pegged as a good second pairing guy and for a guy who took some shifts next to Doughty and didn't look out of place I think that's fair. Walker's biggest 'problem' in general, at leats up till the injury, was not having one standout characteristic. His versatility is what makes him useful...but not anymore on this roster since we're 3D printing 5'11ish 200lb ish goodish skating #4-#6 RHDs.