LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[BaileyFan]

It’s not on Doughty. They could easily have said ‘tough luck’ or asked him to waive his NMC if he didn’t like it. Luc should have had more of a spine.

Part of the reason Doughty gets so much blame is because he noticeably stopped giving a f*** during the tank years and made himself untradeable. His contract was considered one of the worst in the league at that time. Luc should’ve told him to have a monster season to convince a contender to trade for him like EK65 did.

 

[All The Kings Men]

There's more here:

“Sick of Losing”, Drew Doughty Pushing LA Kings for Changes

Full interview here on YouTube:
Drew Doughty 2021 exit interview

Again this isn't Doughty's fault, but he knew what he was saying and the weight his words carry. He was pointedly asked if he believed in the direction of the team if changes weren't made. His response? "No."

That's the video I watched when describing his "dispassionate" answer.

It was a zoom call at the end of a season and someone asked him two very specific questions and he gave an opinion and an answer.

Gann's article is just rehashing that Zoom call as is The Fourth Period's article earlier in the thread.

It's two answers to two questions he was directly asked.


I won't deny that Doughty said what he said and I won't deny that it was shortly after that media availability that the Kings brought in Danault, Arvidsson and Edler.

But the way it's constantly talked about (and I'm sorry for going a little overwrought with semantics and pedantry) is as if Doughty called a press conference himself and demanded a change or he would raise holy hell.

He was asked some questions and he answered them.

There were other factors I imagine that influenced the organizations behavior. I don't know that for a fact but let's all not forget why that media availability was held over Zoom and not in person. Dot dot dot...

 

[kilowatt]

That's the video I watched when describing his "dispassionate" answer.

It was a zoom call at the end of a season and someone asked him two very specific questions and he gave an opinion and an answer.

Gann's article is just rehashing that Zoom call as is The Fourth Period's article earlier in the thread.

It's two answers to two questions he was directly asked.


I won't deny that Doughty said what he said and I won't deny that it was shortly after that media availability that the Kings brought in Danault, Arvidsson and Edler.

But the way it's constantly talked about (and I'm sorry for going a little overwrought with semantics and pedantry) is as if Doughty called a press conference himself and demanded a change or he would raise holy hell.

He was asked some questions and he answered them.

There were other factors I imagine that influenced the organizations behavior. I don't know that for a fact but let's all not forget why that media availability was held over Zoom and not in person. Dot dot dot...

Yeah I think timing has a lot to do with why the organization did what they did. A full rebuild may have been palatable from a financial standpoint in 2019 but no longer made sense in 2022 by no one’s fault. Did we “rebuild the right way”? Not the way we’ve seen at least. Did we do what we needed to? Yeah, maybe. It’s a bummer but the truth is we picked kind of a bad/weird time to suck, and we can see those impacts with prospect development too.

 

[bland]

Part of the reason Doughty gets so much blame is because he noticeably stopped giving a f*** during the tank years and made himself untradeable. His contract was considered one of the worst in the league at that time. Luc should’ve told him to have a monster season to convince a contender to trade for him like EK65 did.

Not true, at all.

Doughty cared too much - he tried to do too many jobs at the same time, struggled, and was burnt out by January.

 

[Surf Nutz]

Yeah, I don't understand what people have against AEG, and where these conspiracy theories about AEG come from. They've been good for the Kings have shown a willingness to invest and take a long term approach.


You can't expect a player to not want to win.

I think it's so lame when people frame it as "whining" and give it a negative connotation. Blame management. Don't blame a player for not wanting to win.

It's always stated here that Blake cut the rebuild short.

My speculation is on how much of that is Blake's doing and how much it may have to do with the revenue and accounting and any other myriad of factors.
Fans do not have access to behind closed door discussions, my dear Inspector Closeau , Sherlock Holmes and good old Watson.
I give credit for the interesting angle's mentioned as heresay, potential evidence but there are no actual receipts in any commenters hands , mine included.

Yeah, I don't understand what people have against AEG, and where these conspiracy theories about AEG come from. They've been good for the Kings and have shown a willingness to invest and take a long term approach.


You can't expect a player to not want to win.

I think it's so lame when people frame it as "whining" and give it a negative connotation. Blame management. Don't blame a player for wanting to win.

So what you believe is the truth and other possibilities brought up for discussion are conspiracy theories?

You better log off you tube for a while. Lol.

In this instance I refuse to believe that Doughty didn't know that the plan was a full rebuild and he decided to go into business for himself, Kopitar, Brown, and Quick.

Also and I've pointed this out before, Doughty saying that to the media ironically now, seems to be one of the major things that prevents this team from getting back to a yearly contender until well after him and Kopitar retire.

So a full rebuild would have to also mean Blake was going to also trade most or all of Doughty , Quick , Brown and Kopitar?
I see you clearly feel that Drew's comments directly caused former player and GM Rob Blake to completely change directions without a single other factor being part of the consideration.
I completely refuse to believe that!
In my mind, the main thing that has kept us from being bonafide contender has been Blake's head coach selections.

In regards to the defenseman, very few teams have ever paired two offensive minded defenseless, for pretty obvious reasons.
Also what happens to Englund and Moverare and Roy if Blake can pull of an extension? @funky

That's from 2017.

Doughty re-signed with the Kings in 2018.

The "rebuild" began in 2019.

Please don't introduce conspiracy facts you will be branded a heretic by the remote fiction viewers.

 

[Schrute farms]

Not saying he should be blamed. Just that that event appears to be linked to when the rebuild changed.

The blame goes on the GM. The GM is the one that folded like a cheap lawn chair and ended the rebuild early. He should have told Drew:
Trust the rebuild process and we'll get there. We're building something great. We envision you being a big part of that. But if you don't want to be a part of it, then you can release your NTC and we can work out a deal for you that works for both of us.

 

[Statto]

The blame goes on the GM. The GM is the one that folded like a cheap lawn chair and ended the rebuild early. He should have told Drew:
Trust the rebuild process and we'll get there. We're building something great. We envision you being a big part of that. But if you don't want to be a part of it, then you can release your NTC and we can work out a deal for you that works for both of us.

Nothing I’ve seen changed my view that the strategy change will have been Luc’s decision. That doesn’t absolve Blake for some of the poor choices he’s made in terms of trades etc, however the strategy (coming out of rebuild early) I’m certain will have been Luc’s. That assumes an organisational setup consistent with other NHL teams and sport in general.

 

[King'sPawn]

The blame goes on the GM. The GM is the one that folded like a cheap lawn chair and ended the rebuild early. He should have told Drew:
Trust the rebuild process and we'll get there. We're building something great. We envision you being a big part of that. But if you don't want to be a part of it, then you can release your NTC and we can work out a deal for you that works for both of us.

Yep. It's never been about trading players for maximum value. It's about keeping players who are on board with the organization's direction.

 

[Statto]

The blame goes on the GM. The GM is the one that folded like a cheap lawn chair and ended the rebuild early. He should have told Drew:
Trust the rebuild process and we'll get there. We're building something great. We envision you being a big part of that. But if you don't want to be a part of it, then you can release your NTC and we can work out a deal for you that works for both of us.

Btw, I agree with what the message should have been back to DD.

 

[tigermask48]

The blame goes on the GM. The GM is the one that folded like a cheap lawn chair and ended the rebuild early. He should have told Drew:
Trust the rebuild process and we'll get there. We're building something great. We envision you being a big part of that. But if you don't want to be a part of it, then you can release your NTC and we can work out a deal for you that works for both of us.

I guess I was bad at making my point... Which is not putting the blame on Doughty, or even Blake.

It was simply pointing out that Doughty appears to have influenced the direction of the team based on his comments in that 2021 exit interview based on how the seasons since have gone.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

It’s fair to assume that if Doughty was comfortable sharing those sentiments with a reporter, he’d made them well known to Kings management. He’s the team’s franchise defenseman. It’s utterly absurd to suggest his opinion didn’t matter to management and ownership.

With that said, Doughty is not a GM. It’s not his job to build a hockey team. That job was Blake’s and by extension Luc’s. And they have failed miserably to both “retool” around their legacy players, as evidenced by their total lack of postseason success, as well as position the franchise to compete in the future, as evidenced by their constant shedding of draft capital and failure to assemble a new young core.

All roads of failure lead back to two people: Rob Blake and Luc Robitaille.

 

[chris kontos]

But they dont consider whats happening rightnow a failure.
Thats the problem.
Our goals and expectations of winning are different from thiers.

 

[tigermask48]

But they dont consider whats happening rightnow a failure.
Thats the problem.
Our goals and expectations of winning are different from thiers.

Hopefully that first sentence isn't the case, but that remains to be seen this summer I guess.

 

[AbsentMojo]

It’s fair to assume that if Doughty was comfortable sharing those sentiments with a reporter, he’d made them well known to Kings management. He’s the team’s franchise defenseman. It’s utterly absurd to suggest his opinion didn’t matter to management and ownership.

With that said, Doughty is not a GM. It’s not his job to build a hockey team. That job was Blake’s and by extension Luc’s. And they have failed miserably to both “retool” around their legacy players, as evidenced by their total lack of postseason success, as well as position the franchise to compete in the future, as evidenced by their constant shedding of draft capital and failure to assemble a new young core.

All roads of failure lead back to two people: Rob Blake and Luc Robitaille.

Which leads back to AEG. They didnt get serious about a rebuild last time until the Ducks won a cup... whats it going to take this time?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Which leads back to AEG. They didnt get serious about a rebuild last time until the Ducks won a cup... whats it going to take this time?

San Jose......(watches everyone faint with horror)

 

[AbsentMojo]

San Jose......(watches everyone faint with horror)

That might delay things til the next century

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

Which leads back to AEG. They didnt get serious about a rebuild last time until the Ducks won a cup... whats it going to take this time?

The ducks winning another cup after a complete tear down. Which they may not even achieve. Lol

 

[AbsentMojo]

But they dont consider whats happening rightnow a failure.
Thats the problem.
Our goals and expectations of winning are different from thiers.

I get they are trying to squeeze something out of 8 and 11 before their total decline - for the average fan that is marketable and lets them sell tickets and jerseys. Only the die hards understand that is leading to the black hole. If they play their cards right though, they can rebuild around 55 and 92 like DL got a head start w 8/11/32.. they'd need to start that like tomorrow.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Which leads back to AEG. They didnt get serious about a rebuild last time until the Ducks won a cup... whats it going to take this time?

And even then, that wasn’t so much AEG as it was Lieweke. Say what you want about him, but he was a competitive executive and wanted to win.

Without that competitive focus at the very top of the organization, you’re destined for apathy and failure.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

It feels redundant to come in here and post when I truly believe this team is a lost cause in terms of winning a cup until Blake is gone and the roster takes 2/3 steps back and rebuilds correctly. Does anyone else feel the same way. First time I have honestly ever felt in an actual black hole as a fan of this team since 1990.

 

[AbsentMojo]

And even then, that wasn’t so much AEG as it was Lieweke. Say what you want about him, but he was a competitive executive and wanted to win.

Without that competitive focus at the very top of the organization, you’re destined for apathy and failure.

I credit Lieweke also.. without his support, DL's plans never wouldve happened.

 

[yankeeking]

Not getting help at the deadline speaks tons on what they think of this version of the team, not one depth player not one scorer and it seams they are more worried about the Reign playoffs than the main team and they want us to renew season seats HARD DECISIONS love my kings but getting sick of half assed management decisions

 

[tigermask48]

It feels redundant to come in here and post when I truly believe this team is a lost cause in terms of winning a cup until Blake is gone and the roster takes 2/3 steps back and rebuilds correctly. Does anyone else feel the same way. First time I have honestly ever felt in an actual black hole as a fan of this team since 1990.

I said a few months ago, depending on how this summer plays out, I don't see the Kings truly competing for at minimum another 5 years.
Can't see it happening until Kopitar and Doughty are retired, and this team gets turned over to whoever is still left from the new core (Byfield, Clarke, Turcotte, etc)

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

I feel like you can’t even call it a core until you are on the verge of a legitimate cup window. Until then they are all just hockey players on your team.

 

[tigermask48]

You can. You Just need to identify the small handful of players that the team builds around.

I think it was pretty easy to look at the Kings a couple years ago and say Byfield, Vilardi, Kaliev, Turcotte, Clarke, Faber, Bjornfot, and Spence/Durzi/Moverare is a really intriguing and exciting core group of players to build a team around. All players at a roughly similar age that are/were highly talented but brought different skillsets to the table.

If all or even most of those players reach their full potential, you have; two high skill centers in Byfield and Vilardi, an elite checking line center in Turcotte, a top 6 goal scoring wing in Kaliev, two top pairing d-men in Clarke and Faber, and a number of other serviceable D to plug into the lineup.