LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[GoldenBearHockey]

Every 20 goal scorer scores at at 40 goal pace for a portion of the season.

Offensive production is inconsistent for individual players. It's the nature of the beast.

At any given time on your roster some guys will be hot, some will be cold.

When Moore and Kopitar were red hot other guys were cold (like PLD). It was reasonable to think other guys would eventually start producing more to compensate when Moore/Kopitar predictably regress.

While no one should have expected them to maintain a 4 goals per game pace, I don't think anyone foresaw they'd drop to the bottom of the NHL in offense either.

Exactly this, No one expected Moore to be a 50 goal scorer for f*** sake, but when he slows down, you need someone else to step up, same with Grundstrom, same with everyone else on the same f***ing team.

There are literally only so many Matthews, McDavids, MacKinnon's in the league, not every team has a star like them, so when Kempe is going, it's ok that Moore isn't, and vice versa,

When NO ONE is going, this is what you get,

But yea....individualize the f*** out of a team sport why don't we. (General we,)

 

[johnjm22]

PLD was the one guy really playing below norms while you had a ton of guys overachieving (many of them drastically). I did mention at the time that PLD returning to normal career levels (he hasn't) would help alleviate the inevitable big-time drop off from Moore, Kopitar, Grundstrom and a few others, but it wasn't going to come close to making up for it.

Even with PLD playing at a 30 goal pace in the 2nd half we would still be in a bad spot offensively.

No star scorers, the depth players can't shoot a puck into the Pacific, the defense outside of Doughty and Clarke (when actually given a chance) have very little offensive ability.

I don't know man, this is not that surprising to me. Things have a way of correcting themselves, the Kings ran extremely well the first 2 months.

Fiala and Kempe had production, but it was largely secondary. We were all waiting for them to really get going along with PLD. And we expected RV to eventually come back.

Again, no one should expect a 4 GPG pace to maintain. But no one should have expected the offense to drop to near the bottom of the league either.

The team analytics were basically inline with the results they were getting.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Fiala and Kempe had production, but it was largely secondary. We were all waiting for them to really get going along with PLD. And we expected RV to eventually come back.

Again, no one should expect a 4 GPG pace to maintain. But no one should have expected the offense to drop to near the bottom of the league either.

The team analytics were basically inline with the results they were getting.

Not true, you can absolutely see it dropping like a f***ing stone in October, I mean anyone could have seen that now...looking back....

That's the argument here on HF....it's absolute bullshit....but that's what they use...

Again, Moore, Kopitar, Grundstrom wasn't going to stay that hot for the entire season, ok, we still have Byfield, Kempe, Danault, Fiala, PLD, and Laferriere/Arvidsson/Turcotte who should be able to chip in something....

 

[AbsentMojo]

Because Clarke can't play acceptable defense at the NHL level yet while the coach is trying to win games in a playoff push, and its better for the kid to play 20 in all situations now instead of 7 in the pros.

This isn't brain surgery.

But they'll develop LaFerriere in the top 9 with even more limitations. Clarke is an offensive weapon that they could make use of and protect his defensive zone starts while getting him reps at the NHL level. There isnt anything for him to learn in Ontario.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

But they'll develop LaFerriere in the top 9 with even more limitations. Clarke is an offensive weapon that they could make use of and protect his defensive zone starts while getting him reps at the NHL level. There isnt anything for him to learn in Ontario.

Except how to play defense at the pro level, there is that

 

[AbsentMojo]

Except how to play defense at the pro level, there is that

What dont you get about development. Durzi was a mess in 21-22 but due to injuries they had to let him develop.. My point is Clarke could be a net positive by contributing offensively if they give him some PP2 and some o-zone starts while he learns the trade.

 

[Statto]

Except how to play defense at the pro level, there is that

Which is why I was bitching in October that he needed to be played early whilst the team was playing well so he could play when his x-factor could be used when needed down the stretch/play-offs. I said then he needed time a minutes to prepare to play a key role. I don’t complain much but I’ve been adamant on this constantly.

Not that I thought the team would fall off this much.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

Like clockwork.

I said in the early part of the season, Clarke needed to be playing and adjusting his game and getting used to the NHL level, but nooooooo....

Now here we are, and Clarke (despite him being an offensive weapon on a team THAT CAN'T SCORE) all of a sudden isn't ready for NHL minutes. Because people can't see the forest through the trees. This season for Clarke should have been preparing him to be where he needed when the playoffs came around. That's how real contenders treat the regular season, to prepare for the playoffs.

 

[FrozenKing18]

I mean, it seems like common sense right? The more playing time you get, the more accustomed these guys will be. They will make mistakes no doubt, but this is how they'll learn and how they can adjust and translate their game. They can't do that with very little minutes and getting shuffled around the lineup. I think we're expecting a bit much from them, thinking they'll need to show something good in a short amount of time in the lineup. These guys aren't generational players that can instantly make an impact once they touch the ice.

 

[bland]

Like clockwork.

I said in the early part of the season, Clarke needed to be playing and adjusting his game and getting used to the NHL level, but nooooooo....

Now here we are, and Clarke (despite him being an offensive weapon on a team THAT CAN'T SCORE) all of a sudden isn't ready for NHL minutes. Because people can't see the forest through the trees. This season for Clarke should have been preparing him to be where he needed when the playoffs came around. That's how real contenders treat the regular season, to prepare for the playoffs.

You realize that you are preaching to the choir, right?

Clarke, Turcotte, Kaliyev, Fagemo, Bjornfot, etc should all have been playing LAST year so that they are ready for the playoffs NEXT year.

This team had no business trying to make the playoffs over the past few years, yet that was the path they chose.

When I tell you that Clarke isn't able to help them NOW that isn't suggesting that he should be sat, its explaining why he isn't playing. He isn't going to help anybody trying to win now. Putting him in because he has offensive ability isn't going to help them achieve their goals because his defensive zone play is simply not at NHL quality.

 

[All The Kings Men]

he's exempt, send him down and let fagemo have the rest of the season.. or are we trying to sandbag fagemo's RFA contract too?

You can't.

The only players currently on the roster that you can send to Ontario are Moverare and Turcotte.

 

[tny760]

You can't.

The only players currently on the roster that you can send to Ontario are Moverare and Turcotte.

oh this is that anti-smurfing stuff to prevent you from loading up your AHL squad late season huh? is that relatively new or am i just a dope that forgets every season

 

[kinghock]

And why is your blue chip Clarke riding the bus in the A and you are keeping Moverare up to play 11/7? Thats more rocket science I cant comprehend. Maybe you need to understand Einstein general relativity about black holes to make sense of it.

Or maybe your strategic approach is how to win another game without thinking how to develop players capable to win titles.

 

[Sol]

I think everyone is making too much of the SUCK the Kings are going through.

Despite being inept offensively, on paper, the Kings are definitely a talented team. Having a brain dead coach in Todd and a brain dead Gm in Blake will result in bizarre management and formation. Regardless of what happens Hiller is only an interim coach and Blake is most likely gone. The season is likely lost but next season should give us a better understanding how this team will perform IF the Kings put a better staff in place.

 

[King'sPawn]

oh this is that anti-smurfing stuff to prevent you from loading up your AHL squad late season huh? is that relatively new or am i just a dope that forgets every season

I don't remember when it was implemented, but ultimately, you have to be on the AHL roster on a particular day in order to be eligible to play in the AHL after the deadline.

Fun fact, this applies in the NHL, too. Theoretically, any team can make a trade after the trade deadline right now. But because they wouldn't be considered on the receiving team's roster by the deadline, they can't play in the regular season or playoffs for the team that acquired them.

But the Kings could trade, say, Kasper Simontaival for a third-round pick right now. Since neither would be playing in the AHL or NHL by season's end, it doesn't make a difference.

With Laferriere, he wasn't assigned to the AHL and put on the roster by the deadline. So he wouldn't be able to play in the AHL if he were sent down.

 

[DoktorJeep]

You either believe we’re a contender with Kopitar and Doughty leading the way or you don’t. I gave up on the idea once Vegas swept us 6 years ago.

 

[kilowatt]

You realize that you are preaching to the choir, right?

Clarke, Turcotte, Kaliyev, Fagemo, Bjornfot, etc should all have been playing LAST year so that they are ready for the playoffs NEXT year.

This team had no business trying to make the playoffs over the past few years, yet that was the path they chose.

When I tell you that Clarke isn't able to help them NOW that isn't suggesting that he should be sat, its explaining why he isn't playing. He isn't going to help anybody trying to win now. Putting him in because he has offensive ability isn't going to help them achieve their goals because his defensive zone play is simply not at NHL quality.

I think the idea of keeping the veterans and signing a guy like Danault was alluring during the rebuild because many of us incorrectly assumed the veterans would ultimately fall i to support positions and our young players would be put into high-impact positions. That didn’t really happen. Instead, we mostly got our young players playing third- and fourth-line minutes or playing in the AHL. Now that it’s “time” to compete, the only one to really take a step forward is Byfield.

I wonder if the current iteration of this team will make it to the second round at some point? If our guys get hot again, anything can happen. I just find it increasingly difficult to feel confident in this team rising to the challenge.

 

[All The Kings Men]

oh this is that anti-smurfing stuff to prevent you from loading up your AHL squad late season huh? is that relatively new or am i just a dope that forgets every season

Not sure if this was the case prior to COVID but in the years since you've only been allowed to send players to the AHL if they were on the AHL roster on "clear day" (the trade deadline)

Most people assume the conversations are limited to the AHL Playoffs eligibility rule and maybe that's the origin but I don't honestly know.

I was messing around with CapFriendly's cap calculator today and based on WHEN and IF Arvidsson and Grundstrom return they may not actually HAVE to assign anyone but even if they do their options are limited to those two guys.

I think... I'm like 99.9% sure.

 

[Herby]

I think the idea of keeping the veterans and signing a guy like Danault was alluring during the rebuild because many of us incorrectly assumed the veterans would ultimately fall i to support positions and our young players would be put into high-impact positions. That didn’t really happen. Instead, we mostly got our young players playing third- and fourth-line minutes or playing in the AHL. Now that it’s “time” to compete, the only one to really take a step forward is Byfield.

I wonder if the current iteration of this team will make it to the second round at some point? If our guys get hot again, anything can happen. I just find it increasingly difficult to feel confident in this team rising to the challenge.

Danault was not signing with LA to be a 3rd line center, people who thought this were naive. It was widely reported that he wanted to go somewhere that he was going to be put in a scoring position. People just wanted to believe otherwise because it was an admission that players they were emotionally invested in were either behind schedule or they were being written off completely.

LA was trying to appease Doughty and perhaps Kopitar too (he just may not have gone to the media) so they were trying to contend for the playoffs, and the drafted centers were in a tough spot to try and achieve that goal.

Byfield was clearly not ready to assume that role, I think he was a longer-term project than they imagined when he was drafted. If they took a guy who was going to take 4 seasons to reach a top-6 role while still wanting to contend with 11 and 8 they are dumber than anyone thought.

Vilardi had major injury issues and had looked pretty bad as a center the year before Danault was signed. His skating was going to make it impossible for him to play the position. He has since developed into a serviceable 2nd line winger but they were right that he couldn't play C.

Turcotte's lack of an offensive game was clearly obvious to everyone by then, and internally they had to have known he had zero chance to be a 2nd line center (see Jim Fox interview and subsequent walk-back).

I like Danault, he is a solid player and by all indications is a great locker-room presence. I think any contender would love to have this guy centering their 3rd line, but for LA he was a poor signing. It was the proverbial fork in the road moment for Blake, where he could have gone down the foolish path of trying to contend with older players, with a roster construction that has never been successful, or going down the path where he turned the franchise over to the next generation and continued rebuilding for three more years. The decision to go down the route he did, and the subsequent moves (trading Faber, trading for and signing PLD, punting 1st round picks) is unfortunately going to set the franchise back probably 5 additional seasons from being contenders than it would have had they committed to the youth, where they'd probably be coming out of the rebuild in an amazing spot to be long-term contenders.

 

[Schmooley]

Danault was not signing with LA to be a 3rd line center, people who thought this were naive. It was widely reported that he wanted to go somewhere that he was going to be put in a scoring position. People just wanted to believe otherwise because it was an admission that players they were emotionally invested in were either behind schedule or they were being written off completely.

LA was trying to appease Doughty and perhaps Kopitar too (he just may not have gone to the media) so they were trying to contend for the playoffs, and the drafted centers were in a tough spot to try and achieve that goal.

Byfield was clearly not ready to assume that role, I think he was a longer-term project than they imagined when he was drafted. If they took a guy who was going to take 4 seasons to reach a top-6 role while still wanting to contend with 11 and 8 they are dumber than anyone thought.

Vilardi had major injury issues and had looked pretty bad as a center the year before Danault was signed. His skating was going to make it impossible for him to play the position. He has since developed into a serviceable 2nd line winger but they were right that he couldn't play C.

Turcotte's lack of an offensive game was clearly obvious to everyone by then, and internally they had to have known he had zero chance to be a 2nd line center (see Jim Fox interview and subsequent walk-back).

I like Danault, he is a solid player and by all indications is a great locker-room presence. I think any contender would love to have this guy centering their 3rd line, but for LA he was a poor signing. It was the proverbial fork in the road moment for Blake, where he could have gone down the foolish path of trying to contend with older players, with a roster construction that has never been successful, or going down the path where he turned the franchise over to the next generation and continued rebuilding for three more years. The decision to go down the route he did, and the subsequent moves (trading Faber, trading for and signing PLD, punting 1st round picks) is unfortunately going to set the franchise back probably 5 additional seasons from being contenders than it would have had they committed to the youth, where they'd probably be coming out of the rebuild in an amazing spot to be long-term contenders.

For me the Danault signing was the first move to start questioning Blake. It was such an unnatural progression for a team to force something that wasnt and still isnt there.

 

[KINGS17]

You either believe we’re a contender with Kopitar and Doughty leading the way or you don’t. I gave up on the idea once Vegas swept us 6 years ago.

This organization hasn't been a contender since 2014. Dean made a big mistake in not cutting Richards loose after the 2013-14 season and that started the ball rolling. I do believe he was going to start cleaning house after the 2014-15 season, but he didn't get the opportunity.

BLuc sold AEG a bill of goods and Kings fans are about to see some really bad hockey over the next 4 or 5 seasons all while prime Byfield and Clarke years are wasted.

 

[AbsentMojo]

This organization hasn't been a contender since 2014. Dean made a big mistake in not cutting Richards loose after the 2013-14 season and that started the ball rolling. I do believe he was going to start cleaning house after the 2014-15 season, but he didn't get the opportunity.

BLuc sold AEG a bill of goods and Kings fans are about to see some really bad hockey over the next 4 or 5 seasons all while prime Byfield and Clarke years are wasted.

I sensed it was the Nero period for the team when Voynov did his thing, then Stoll tried sneak blow in the Hard Rock in Vegas, then DL let Voynov attend practice and got slapped. I wanted them to tear it down after that.. Felt like the culture was falling apart and they need some surgery to reset the tone.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

I think everyone is making too much of the SUCK the Kings are going through.

Despite being inept offensively, on paper, the Kings are definitely a talented team. Having a brain dead coach in Todd and a brain dead Gm in Blake will result in bizarre management and formation. Regardless of what happens Hiller is only an interim coach and Blake is most likely gone. The season is likely lost but next season should give us a better understanding how this team will perform IF the Kings put a better staff in place.

That’s the problem we have pieces there is no semblance of a team!

 

[johnjm22]

All things considered, Doughty has probably been our best player this season.

He wants to win. It's not going to happen here. I don't think he ends his career with LA.

 

[Reaper45]

All things considered, Doughty has probably been our best player this season.

He wants to win. It's not going to happen here. I don't think he ends his career with LA.

Who can afford to take that contract?