LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[AbsentMojo]

The defensive angle is most likely the answer here, as Hiller wants to feels comfortable running this line while carrying a lead. It's clear he does not trust Turcotte or Kaliyev yet in that regard

Yes its the mindset that you cant afford to let a young guy develop in front of you (unless there's an injury or your 2OA which you do because you dont want to look like it was a bad pick).. the thing is whenever they've given the kids opportunities llike in 21-22 when they had no choice, they overachieved. In general, Hiller seems to still have that Koala mindset that young guys cant be trusted which maybe gives you short term returns but hurts their self esteem and development.

 

[lumbergh]

Russell Morgan keeps preaching Kayilev with Moore and Danault.

Where does that leave Fiala though? He has zero chemistry with PLD. I guess with Kopitar and Kempe...

PLD-Byfield-Fiala. DO IT!

Help us Hiller-wan Kenobi. You're our only hope.

 

[FSL KINGS]

PLD has played 6 good games. He's really working out.

Posted some of this before. The state of centers around the NHL is rough right now.

Vancouver traded for Lindholm, who had something like 6 goals at the time of the trade. He appears to be doing ok.

Winnipeg traded a first for old man Monahan & may still need to address the center position.

Bos is looking at going into the playoffs with Coyle, Zacha as a 1,2 punch down the center.

NYR is frantically looking for a center & considering options like Laughton (PHL), Dowd (WAS), or just sticking with Johnny Brodzinski.

TO actually needs a 2C with Tavares aging out.

Colorado has needed a 2C since they lost Kadri to UFA.

Blues, Preds, Wild are fighting for the wild card. Anyone know what they're running at center?

What does Detroit & Philadelphia have down the middle?

King's are loaded down the middle. If Kopi takes a step back, not a problem. King's have that covered. King's have the freedom to bounce Byfield & PL anywhere they want. They aren't considering giving up a 1st at the deadline for Laughton or Dowd for a 3C. In a time when centers are so hard to find for playoff teams, Blake has done a great job hoarding centers.

PL has a high xGF (maybe the stat tanked under Todd). The reason for this is PL goes to the net a lot because he's big. If you put a playmaker with him, it creates good opportunities. Todd couldn't figure out a fit to get PL producing.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

Really wanted to see turcs Byfield and PLD together. Laf will be with kempe and kopi

This sucks. So many puzzling lineup decisions this season. We know Lizotte is a good (or even great) 4C despite his lack of size. It's great that he's healthy but why the hell would he slot at 3rd line LW??? ESPECIALLY when you have a handful of young players with much higher ceilings who you desperately need to evaluate.

Obviously I understand the idea... "Defensively responsible. Brings a lot of energy". But Turcotte could do the exact same thing while also bringing more skill/playmaking. They're going to give Lizotte 13+ minutes tonight while Turcotte and Kaliyev play 7-8 minutes and sit on the bench most of the game. This shit is so asinine. I get that Hiller has been changing lines a lot and the lines will rotate around mid game but I guarantee the ice time will reflect actual usage.

Turcotte is NOT a 4C (at least long term). He was a 5th overall pick ffs and despite his rocky development path still has the chance to be a very effective top 9 forward for us. But how the hell is a player supposed to prove themselves in 5-10 minutes of ice time???? We're just ruining players left and right at this point.

The 4th line has been terrible most of the year. Still not happy with it. No identity. Look at other teams 4th lines - usually a speedy penalty killer, a gritty or tough forward, and a player who can win draws. We have just one of those items.

4th line was solid until Lizotte got injured. He would greatly improve our 4th line if they just.... idk... slotted him back in to the position/role that he's played for the last 4 years???? (I also understand moving on from Lizotte and adding more size at 4C - I'm just saying it's dumb he's being given a top 9 role)

PLD-Byfield-Fiala. DO IT!

Help us Hiller-wan Kenobi. You're our only hope.

Best he can do is Lizotte - PLD - Byfield, take it or leave it.

 

[Herby]

This sucks. So many puzzling lineup decisions this season. We know Lizotte is a good (or even great) 4C despite his lack of size. It's great that he's healthy but why the hell would he slot at 3rd line LW??? ESPECIALLY when you have a handful of young players with much higher ceilings who you desperately need to evaluate.

Obviously I understand the idea... "Defensively responsible. Brings a lot of energy". But Turcotte could do the exact same thing while also bringing more skill/playmaking. They're going to give Lizotte 13+ minutes tonight while Turcotte and Kaliyev play 7-8 minutes and sit on the bench most of the game. This shit is so asinine. I get that Hiller has been changing lines a lot and the lines will rotate around mid game but I guarantee the ice time will reflect actual usage.

Turcotte is NOT a 4C (at least long term). He was a 5th overall pick ffs and despite his rocky development path still has the chance to be a very effective top 9 forward for us. But how the hell is a player supposed to prove themselves in 5-10 minutes of ice time???? We're just ruining players left and right at this point.

4th line was solid until Lizotte got injured. He would greatly improve our 4th line if they just.... idk... slotted him back in to the position/role that he's played for the last 4 years???? (I also understand moving on from Lizotte and adding more size at 4C - I'm just saying it's dumb he's being given a top 9 role)

Best he can do is Lizotte - PLD - Byfield, take it or leave it.

It's frustrating because if you are going to insist on the unorthodox AHL slow-cook and model your development after Nashville, it would be nice if they brought guys up after the slow cook and into defined roles on the NHL team. As a Milwaukee Admirals fan and former ticket holder, I can say that Nashville certainly slow-cooked (and the numbers back it up with them and the Kings), Ads fans were spoiled with the amount of future NHL talent they got to see, but when it was time to bring those guys up from Milwaukee to Nashville, they almost always did it into defined roles on the NHL team, where as with the Kings it seems the slow-cook continues when the players get to the NHL level, with inconsistent usage, healthy scratches and 4th line deployment.

So in that sense, the Kings while modeling Nashville's slow development strategy with AHL usage have taken it even a step further.

 

[dman3474]

The better Lizotte does the easier it is to move him.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

It's frustrating because if you are going to insist on the unorthodox AHL slow-cook and model your development after Nashville, it would be nice if they brought guys up after the slow cook and into defined roles on the NHL team. As a Milwaukee Admirals fan and former ticket holder, I can say that Nashville certainly slow-cooked (and the numbers back it up with them and the Kings), Ads fans were spoiled with the amount of future NHL talent they got to see, but when it was time to bring those guys up from Milwaukee to Nashville, they almost always did it into defined roles on the NHL team, where as with the Kings it seems the slow-cook continues when the players get to the NHL level, with inconsistent usage, healthy scratches and 4th line deployment.

So in that sense, the Kings while modeling Nashville's slow development strategy with AHL usage have taken it even a step further.

I think what makes it even worse is they often do have opportunities available for young players - But it seems a lot of the time when those opportunities come up they're either given to existing players/vets or the young player is given the opportunity but with a VERY short leash and the guy ends up being punished if they aren't perfect.

Just look at tonight.. With Arvidsson going back on IR - Tonight is the PERFECT opportunity to give a young player some ice time and see if they impress / take advantage of it.

But instead the coaching staff is electing to give that opportunity / ice time to a tenured player who likely has no long term future with the team. It's so frustrating.

Laferriere seems to be an exception but I think with Laf he impressed the coaches early (in large part because he dropped the gloves a couple times in his first 10 games) and is now viewed as a must have in the lineup as a result. Again, I like Laf a lot but why is he given opportunity after opportunity with little production to show for it while not being held accountable for the turnovers, defensive mistakes, etc??

If I'm Kaliyev I'm fighting someone tonight - Although granted that's easy to say behind a keyboard lol.

 

[Nasti]

I think one major reason Laf has been given a longer leash is because he’s a right hand shot. There is literally no one else with offensive upside with Arvidsson out and Vilardi traded.

 

[johnjm22]

I think one major reason Laf has been given a longer leash is because he’s a right hand shot. There is literally no one else with offensive upside with Arvidsson out and Vilardi traded.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Laferriere seems to be an exception but I think with Laf he impressed the coaches early (in large part because he dropped the gloves a couple times in his first 10 games) and is now viewed as a must have in the lineup as a result. Again, I like Laf a lot but why is he given opportunity after opportunity with little production to show for it while not being held accountable for the turnovers, defensive mistakes, etc??

If I'm Kaliyev I'm fighting someone tonight - Although granted that's easy to say behind a keyboard lol.

I think one major reason Laf has been given a longer leash is because he’s a right hand shot. There is literally no one else with offensive upside with Arvidsson out and Vilardi traded.

The #1 reason why Laf has played and played, and not getting the "Kaliyev" treatment, is his motor. Yes, he has giveaways, yes he loses his guy, but the guy never freaking stops, and he's able to create his own offense, Kaliyev doesn't do that, and has no where NEAR the motor that Laf does...

 

[YAYSAY]

Not gonna lie I completely forgot about Fagemo. I remember he got a few games a few months ago then I just never heard about him again. Is he still with the Kings or back with the Reign?

 

[bland]

I think one major reason Laf has been given a longer leash is because he’s a right hand shot. There is literally no one else with offensive upside with Arvidsson out and Vilardi traded.

I think folks are too obsessed with numbers and line combos, on-ice stuff, to understand whats probably going on here. The Dubois list stuff became public this week because the PR of the broadcast crew, but its fairly common for young players to be given a set of instructions to follow in a variety of areas of the game. If they don't follow them, or aren't progressing in the areas stated, you have to hold them accountable. And with kids out of waiver options, ice time is the chief weapon at their disposal.

I would bet the farm that they are having issues getting Kaliyev on board with the plans laid out for him.

I think what makes it even worse is they often do have opportunities available for young players - But it seems a lot of the time when those opportunities come up they're either given to existing players/vets or the young player is given the opportunity but with a VERY short leash and the guy ends up being punished if they aren't perfect.

Just look at tonight.. With Arvidsson going back on IR - Tonight is the PERFECT opportunity to give a young player some ice time and see if they impress / take advantage of it.

But instead the coaching staff is electing to give that opportunity / ice time to a tenured player who likely has no long term future with the team. It's so frustrating.

Laferriere seems to be an exception but I think with Laf he impressed the coaches early (in large part because he dropped the gloves a couple times in his first 10 games) and is now viewed as a must have in the lineup as a result. Again, I like Laf a lot but why is he given opportunity after opportunity with little production to show for it while not being held accountable for the turnovers, defensive mistakes, etc??

If I'm Kaliyev I'm fighting someone tonight - Although granted that's easy to say behind a keyboard lol.

Why would Lizotte not have a longterm future with the club?

 

[Bandit]

Key game against the Perds tonight. Chance to put some space between the teams battling for wild card and the Kings. If the Kings win they are neck and neck with Oilers and Vegas.

What’s a pederass, Walter???

 

[johnjm22]

Why would Lizotte not have a longterm future with the club?

The guy takes an absolute beating. I don't think he'll have a long career.

Some guys burn bright, but they don't burn for long.

 

[Nasti]

Losing him to waivers pretty much tells us what they think of him.

 

[Docgonzo]

Let’s see if Turcotte can play more than 32 games in a season before we pencil him in anywhere next year.

 

[dman3474]

The guy takes an absolute beating. I don't think he'll have a long career.

Some guys burn bright, but they don't burn for long.

And he will need a raise off of the 1.6+mil that he's currently getting to play 11 min per night. Some other team might value him enough to trade a shiny new pick for him or he could be an add on for other pieces.

 

[Schmooley]

Let’s see if Turcotte can play more than 32 games in a season before we pencil him in anywhere next year.

I noticed hes changed up how he goes into the corners. More stick work and better body position rather than just going in full speed as the first man like a crash dummy. Hes also more aware when he crosses the blue line. He is not shying away from contact just smarter about it.
Hope he can stay healthy!

 

[Statto]

The #1 reason why Laf has played and played, and not getting the "Kaliyev" treatment, is his motor. Yes, he has giveaways, yes he loses his guy, but the guy never freaking stops, and he's able to create his own offense, Kaliyev doesn't do that, and has no where NEAR the motor that Laf does...

On giveaways… (not targeting you as several people bring it up with Laf).

Laf has had 20 giveaways which is 7th on the team. He’s had a couple of bad ones recently but it hasn’t been that bad, and 13 are D zone. Roy has 43 (42 in D zone), Fiala 40 (16), Doughty 32 (25), Kopitar 26 (10), Gavrikov 26 (23), Danault 26 (16), PLD 20 (8), Anderson 20 (19). The D are always going to have more giveaways but still… Roy is the outlier and Fiala is also a problem there but his role as a maverick makes in expected to a point. He only had 37 last season in 69 games.

Byfield has 8 giveaways… just 3 in the D zone… anyone with fewer has significantly less ice time. Clarke 1, Turcotte has 0.

It’s a very important and overlooked stat. A giveaway is a clean play. The puck is either clean stolen or it’s a picked off pass/clear, the culprit needs to start with full control of the puck. So mishandling a poor pass doesn’t count, nor do battles in corners etc.

I’ve not done a full analysis but there has definitely been too many giveaway across the team. Byfield’s number is impressive though.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Let’s see if Turcotte can play more than 32 games in a season before we pencil him in anywhere next year.

I know what you're saying but think he's gotta be penciled in regardless because he's about all the cheap NHL ready talent they have left in the system.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Kings might have to move Lizotte and Grundstroms contracts.

I would rather have Thomas, Turcotte and Fagemo playing than those two.

 

[kingsfan28]

I think what makes it even worse is they often do have opportunities available for young players - But it seems a lot of the time when those opportunities come up they're either given to existing players/vets or the young player is given the opportunity but with a VERY short leash and the guy ends up being punished if they aren't perfect.

Just look at tonight.. With Arvidsson going back on IR - Tonight is the PERFECT opportunity to give a young player some ice time and see if they impress / take advantage of it.

But instead the coaching staff is electing to give that opportunity / ice time to a tenured player who likely has no long term future with the team. It's so frustrating.

Laferriere seems to be an exception but I think with Laf he impressed the coaches early (in large part because he dropped the gloves a couple times in his first 10 games) and is now viewed as a must have in the lineup as a result. Again, I like Laf a lot but why is he given opportunity after opportunity with little production to show for it while not being held accountable for the turnovers, defensive mistakes, etc??

If I'm Kaliyev I'm fighting someone tonight - Although granted that's easy to say behind a keyboard lol.

Starting players very rarely lose their spots after returning from injury. Soon as Lizzo was good to go , he was back in.

 

[Rod Auger]

What’s a pederass, Walter???

 

[Live in the Now]

I think one major reason Laf has been given a longer leash is because he’s a right hand shot. There is literally no one else with offensive upside with Arvidsson out and Vilardi traded.

He's also under contract for one year longer than any other young forward the team has, as such the team is completely invested in developing him.

 

[ru4reals]

Really wanted to see turcs Byfield and PLD together. Laf will be with kempe and kopi

GTFOH!!! Trade Lizzo already. LOL.