LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[Statto]

I listened to the Hiller press availabilities from yesterday and today. Couple of key takeaways…

- His primary focus is on restoring confidence. He believes the team is great if it can play like it did in October and November.

- It’s not about individuals at this point, it’s about wins and losses. Stringing together a positive streak is how things get turned around.

- Any changes that are being made are small and will not be publicized. If they are effective, it will be noticed over the course of multiple positive games.

He said what is expected in the situation. My opinion hasn’t changed since the change was announced. It’s a lateral move at worst.

Given Blake’s last panic coach move was Willie D. It is safe to say he did marginally better at this one. At least Jim Hiller won’t get lost trying to get from the hotel to the practice rink. Awesome to see Rob apply his on the job training to the current team. At this rate, the cup is totally ours.

He’s rightly giving nothing away and talking at a high level and generalising. Hes not going to say anything interesting as it’s not just fans listening. Hes not going to give anything away for other coaches to use.

 

[DoktorJeep]

He’s rightly giving nothing away and talking at a high level and generalising. Hes not going to say anything interesting as it’s not just fans listening. Hes not going to give anything away for other coaches to use.

Yea, I’m sure glad he protected the state secrets. Now the opposition will be totally in the dark about this team with the same tactics since 2010. Could you be more pedantic?

 

[Statto]

Yea, I’m sure glad he protected the state secrets. Now the opposition will be totally in the dark about this team with the same tactics since 2010. Could you be more pedantic?

I can’t help myself I’m always pedantic… borderline ASD. I just find it frustrating when the narrative becomes ‘nothing changes’ based on nothing bar some neutral comments in a press conference. It may be that there is nothing new from him… or AK is buried etc… but we won’t know until they start playing for him. I just think people are reaching trying to read things into him comments.

 

[chris kontos]

we may get somewhat of a guilt bump for a short time, however the kings lack of goaltending and age out of key players has us cooked im afraid.
it will be more interesting to watch the changes(if any) on a management level, if the team is sold and the mechanics of whether damage control is attempted on the current roster makeup or if they rip it apart and start over. as the saying goes "may you live in interesting times" for the kings it looks to be more interesting than they could ever want.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Could you be more pedantic?

Had to look that one up.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

we may get somewhat of a guilt bump for a short time, however the kings lack of goaltending and age out of key players has us cooked im afraid.
it will be more interesting to watch the changes(if any) on a management level, if the team is sold and the mechanics of whether damage control is attempted on the current roster makeup or if they rip it apart and start over. as the saying goes "may you live in interesting times" for the kings it looks to be more interesting than they could ever want.

If this team gets above average goaltending, they should be fine. The last two months haven't been a spiral resulting from a team that can't match skill with other teams, it was about bad goaltending and boneheaded plays. You can fix the boneheaded plays.

Not saying the team is going to win the cup, but they are absolutely a playoff team. I would be concerned that Blake might give up assets for another goaltender by trade deadline.

 

[DoktorJeep]

I can’t help myself I’m always pedantic… borderline ASD. I just find it frustrating when the narrative becomes ‘nothing changes’ based on nothing bar some neutral comments in a press conference. It may be that there is nothing new from him… or AK is buried etc… but we won’t know until they start playing for him. I just think people are reaching trying to read things into him comments.

Pretty sure my comment was the coach said what I expected him to in the situation. Which is kind of saying the same thing you are. I went a bit out of my way to not editorialize what I heard in his videos and just stick to the facts. I saved the hyperbole for Blake.

 

[tny760]

If this team gets above average goaltending, they should be fine.

who could have possibly seen that coming

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

who could have possibly seen that coming

Probably the same experts that saw the Quick downfall coming...the Cal Peterson debacle and the MVP performance by Copley last year? Is that who?

 

[Herby]

Well I consider 25+ games as more than just a fast start - When you look at the recent slump.... It's honestly primarily just a bad January.

The Kings were 7-4-2 in December and were 9th in the NHL with a .682 points % on January 1 (5th best points percentage in the NHL). So essentially we have a team who was REALLY good for the first 2 and a half months of the season, and then really bad for the last month.

You're choosing to view the month of January as a fall from grace and the new reality for the group. I'm choosing to view it as (hopefully) a bad slump where the team just wasn't clicking at all, players were being deployed incorrectly, and we had a coach who had clearly lost control of the room. Ultimately you might be right, and it might make sense to sell off some assets and look to next year (potentially with a new GM). But ultimately, you also might be wrong - And this team could come out of the break firing on all cylinders.

What I'm saying is.... Aging 1C and 1D and goaltending aside... If this team plays remotely to their potential (like we saw from them for the first ~30 games of the season), it's a really good roster that would at least have a chance in a 7 game series against any opponent.

It seems you disagree. Which like, fair enough I guess. It seems you're ready to completely write off Kopitar and Doughty as done, which again, fair enough. But I'd like to believe these guys might have some gas left in the tank. And personally, I'm more surprised with how bad the Kings have been throughout January than I was surprised by how good they looked from October-end of December. I personally, think this team is closer to what they showed us for the first 30 games than they are to what they showed in the last 18.

If I'm right, it's not crazy to think you should add a piece or two to this team and go for it - Not necessarily "go all in / trade all your first round picks because it's now or never" - But add a decent piece or two to increase your chances so you can have a shot to go on a run. If you're right, then definitely yes they shouldn't add. Again, hopefully in the next month we get an indication as to who's right and who's wrong.

I just don't know what you are basing this hope off of other than blind faith. Kopitar and Doughty are two of the best players in franchise history, but they are 36 and 34, this is a young mans game, not a game where your alphas are that old.

You place a ton of value on the first 25 games, but then mostly brush off whats happened since, what if they are more like the team that we have seen the past month and a half? Now I don't agree with that, but it's just as likely as the team that appeared in the first quarter. The truth is they drastically overachieved in the first quarter and have subsequently underachieved just as much in the second quarter, but all things being equal this is about where this roster deserves to be, they are well behind the other three teams in the division based on talent and are a wild-card caliber team. It's a tough pill to swallow for those who drank Rob Blake's contenders kool-aid but there is no way you can look at the rosters of Vancouver, Vegas and Edmonton and think the Kings have a solid chance to beat any of these teams in a 7-game series, especially without home ice, where the Kings roster weaknesses can be further exploited.

When was the last time a team won a Stanley Cup when their two best players were that old?
When was the last time a team won a Stanley Cup without a Top 50 player in the NHL?
When was the last time a team won a Stanley Cup with a goaltender as bad as Talbot?

You think the Kings are going to be an all-time historical fluke and defy all these things and maybe contend for a cup?

I just don't see how all this historical evidence can just be pushed aside because they are the team we cheer for. We are 60% of the way through the season, the Kings are about on par with teams like Detroit, NY Islanders, Nashville and Philadelphia, do you think those teams are contenders who should be adding at the deadline? I would guess 100% of the people on this forum would laugh and say no, but why do we act differently towards the Kings, despite the Kings having an identical resume 60% of the way through the year?

No team sitting where the Kings are in the standings in the 2nd week of February should ever consider trading a player like Arthur Kaliyev to chase a completely unrealistic goal. Kaliyev can have a clear role here next season when a competent manager comes in and puts the team back on the correct path towards building a contender, it would be ridiculous to give that up to try put a band-aid on a terminal illness.

Ownership should not allow Rob Blake to do anything else that may damage this team long-term, this is his last-stand as far as coaching staff and roster.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

@Herby

Finally getting back here....so wanted to tell you what I was talking about with MMQB, in general,

First point, G, the critcism is that Blake should have seen this coming years and years and years ago, and that he sat and did nothing about it, that's blatantly false, A. he thought/signed Peterson, B. Since his hire in 2017, he drafted 6 goaltenders in 7 drafts, and he Kuemper, Sparks, Copley, Rittich, Talbot, traded for Portillo. While yes, results matter, G is the one position that is MOST a crap shoot, than any other position in the game, apparently he tried to move up to get Wallstedt (that's what I heard) etc but it takes 2 to make a trade, he traded for Korpisalo, etc, You (collectively) wanna bitch that he didn't find a goaltender, absolutely, but that's not the criticism, it's that he's done nothing....that's blatant BS.

Second point, LHD, same criticism, he knew all about it, and did NOTHING to fill that LHD position, except, you know draft Anderson, Phillips, Hults, Doyle, Nouisanen, Bjornfoot, Meehan, Kirsanov, Booth, Dvorak and sign Englund, Edler, Lintunemi, Fantenberg, Gravel, Brickley, Ryan, Wolanin, Clague, Moverare, Hutton, Forbort, traded for Maata, Gavrikov etc, Again, yes, results matter, but there's not a player on this list with the exception of Michael Anderson, that this fan base wanted to keep, and it turns out, Forbort, Maata etc, maybe should have been? But again, the criticism is that he should have seen a shortage on LHD and did nothing, again except bring in 23 players in 7 years, argue they were the wrong players.....but you can't argue like some are, that he did nothing.

As far as 3 years ago, ending the rebuild vs results, etc, We can only judge on what we see/know, you and I both know there are factors that we aren't privy to, so we will set those aside, Danault signing signaled the end of the rebuild I would argue, let me know if you think different.

End of 2020-2021, back in January of 2021, Doughty complains about the rebuild, so end of the season they go out and sign Danault, trade for Arvidsson, and improve 50 points from 49 to 99, Lost in round 1 in the 2021-2022 season.

End of 2021-2022, they lose Brown to retirement, trade for Fiala, that was pretty much their off-season and went from 99 points to 104 points, Lost in round 1.

End of 2022-2023, they trade for PLD....started off red hot, then went ice cold...

You are saying that people say this coming from 3 years ago? That once the ended the rebuild, they would improve in the off-season? You want to point to playoff failures in that 3 year period,

Ok great, 2021 here are playoff teams that lost in round 1, Boston, Dallas, Toronto, in 2022, here are the teams that lost in round 1, Boston, Tampa, Colorado, Winnipeg, NYR.

This board, and collectively (you) seem to have this thought that playoff wins are EASY, not sure where that came from, but if it was easy every team would be winning right?

You asked the last time a team won with "old" players, besides Kopitar and Doughty, who is old? Kempe? Fiala? Danault, Arvidsson? Anderson? Moore? Byfield? You say they built around Kopitar and Doughty, but those are two players out of an 18 player roster, these ages come from CapFriendly, I did not verify them, Kempe 27, Fiala, 27, Danault, 30, PLD, 25, Moore 28, Byfield 21, Kaliyev, 22, Laferriere, 22, JAD, 24, Grundstrom, 26, Gavrikov 28, Anderson 24, Roy, 28, Clarke, 21, Spence 22, Doesn't look like a team that's built...around Kopitar or Doughty, it looks like a team in their prime, with Doughty and Kopitar, you want to argue usage and TOI for Kopitar and Doughty, sure, you can make that argument, wouldn't really be a good one or a compelling one.

Blake's "vision and strategy" had this team as one of the hottest teams in the league, to the point where nearly EVERY pundit who follows and writes about the NHL, had the Kings on their radar as contenders. Did it fall apart, absolutely, could be coach, could be division in the room, could be voodoo, could be a lot of things, but a start like that, and a roster that captures that kind of attention, isn't a mistake...

So yea, I call it MMQB when you wanna bitch about the last 23 games (rightfully so, they played absolutely brutal hockey at times) but they've shown improvement the past 3 years, and are in bed with teams like Boston, Dallas, Toronto, Tampa, Colorado, NYR who haven't gotten past round 1 in the past 3 years....

Again, apologize for the snappish reply the other day, shitty work week etc,

And when Blake is fired, because he will be, my answser is, I hope the next guy is better, because I truly don't give a flying f*** who is the GM, or who is the coach, just want them to win, and they have been the past 2.5 years, and again, collective use here, what you fail to understand is this is sports, professional, shit happens.....Miracle on Manchester, this collapse, etc,

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

@Herby

Finally getting back here....so wanted to tell you what I was talking about with MMQB, in general,

First point, G, the critcism is that Blake should have seen this coming years and years and years ago, and that he sat and did nothing about it, that's blatantly false, A. he thought/signed Peterson, B. Since his hire in 2017, he drafted 6 goaltenders in 7 drafts, and he Kuemper, Sparks, Copley, Rittich, Talbot, traded for Portillo. While yes, results matter, G is the one position that is MOST a crap shoot, than any other position in the game, apparently he tried to move up to get Wallstedt (that's what I heard) etc but it takes 2 to make a trade, he traded for Korpisalo, etc, You (collectively) wanna bitch that he didn't find a goaltender, absolutely, but that's not the criticism, it's that he's done nothing....that's blatant BS.

Second point, LHD, same criticism, he knew all about it, and did NOTHING to fill that LHD position, except, you know draft Anderson, Phillips, Hults, Doyle, Nouisanen, Bjornfoot, Meehan, Kirsanov, Booth, Dvorak and sign Englund, Edler, Lintunemi, Fantenberg, Gravel, Brickley, Ryan, Wolanin, Clague, Moverare, Hutton, Forbort, traded for Maata, Gavrikov etc, Again, yes, results matter, but there's not a player on this list with the exception of Michael Anderson, that this fan base wanted to keep, and it turns out, Forbort, Maata etc, maybe should have been? But again, the criticism is that he should have seen a shortage on LHD and did nothing, again except bring in 23 players in 7 years, argue they were the wrong players.....but you can't argue like some are, that he did nothing.

As far as 3 years ago, ending the rebuild vs results, etc, We can only judge on what we see/know, you and I both know there are factors that we aren't privy to, so we will set those aside, Danault signing signaled the end of the rebuild I would argue, let me know if you think different.

End of 2020-2021, back in January of 2021, Doughty complains about the rebuild, so end of the season they go out and sign Danault, trade for Arvidsson, and improve 50 points from 49 to 99, Lost in round 1 in the 2021-2022 season.

End of 2021-2022, they lose Brown to retirement, trade for Fiala, that was pretty much their off-season and went from 99 points to 104 points, Lost in round 1.

End of 2022-2023, they trade for PLD....started off red hot, then went ice cold...

You are saying that people say this coming from 3 years ago? That once the ended the rebuild, they would improve in the off-season? You want to point to playoff failures in that 3 year period,

Ok great, 2021 here are playoff teams that lost in round 1, Boston, Dallas, Toronto, in 2022, here are the teams that lost in round 1, Boston, Tampa, Colorado, Winnipeg, NYR.

This board, and collectively (you) seem to have this thought that playoff wins are EASY, not sure where that came from, but if it was easy every team would be winning right?

You asked the last time a team won with "old" players, besides Kopitar and Doughty, who is old? Kempe? Fiala? Danault, Arvidsson? Anderson? Moore? Byfield? You say they built around Kopitar and Doughty, but those are two players out of an 18 player roster, these ages come from CapFriendly, I did not verify them, Kempe 27, Fiala, 27, Danault, 30, PLD, 25, Moore 28, Byfield 21, Kaliyev, 22, Laferriere, 22, JAD, 24, Grundstrom, 26, Gavrikov 28, Anderson 24, Roy, 28, Clarke, 21, Spence 22, Doesn't look like a team that's built...around Kopitar or Doughty, it looks like a team in their prime, with Doughty and Kopitar, you want to argue usage and TOI for Kopitar and Doughty, sure, you can make that argument, wouldn't really be a good one or a compelling one.

Blake's "vision and strategy" had this team as one of the hottest teams in the league, to the point where nearly EVERY pundit who follows and writes about the NHL, had the Kings on their radar as contenders. Did it fall apart, absolutely, could be coach, could be division in the room, could be voodoo, could be a lot of things, but a start like that, and a roster that captures that kind of attention, isn't a mistake...

So yea, I call it MMQB when you wanna bitch about the last 23 games (rightfully so, they played absolutely brutal hockey at times) but they've shown improvement the past 3 years, and are in bed with teams like Boston, Dallas, Toronto, Tampa, Colorado, NYR who haven't gotten past round 1 in the past 3 years....

Again, apologize for the snappish reply the other day, shitty work week etc,

And when Blake is fired, because he will be, my answser is, I hope the next guy is better, because I truly don't give a flying f*** who is the GM, or who is the coach, just want them to win, and they have been the past 2.5 years, and again, collective use here, what you fail to understand is this is sports, professional, shit happens.....Miracle on Manchester, this collapse, etc,

Don’t know how many will see this (so many like to brag they have you on ignore), but I must say….well done. WELL DONE.

 

[Little Psycho]

Get your pitchforks ready y’all. Maybe they were saving him yesterday from getting hurt…was a weak excuse from Hiller

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Get your pitchforks ready y’all. Maybe they were saving him yesterday from getting hurt…was a weak excuse from Hiller

Holy f***...did he also predict the sun will rise in the east?

Tell me, if some team offers a top 10 1st for Turcotte, do you trade him?

What if they offer a Faber like player, do you trade Turcotte for him?

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

I just don't know what you are basing this hope off of other than blind faith. Kopitar and Doughty are two of the best players in franchise history, but they are 36 and 34, this is a young mans game, not a game where your alphas are that old.

You place a ton of value on the first 25 games, but then mostly brush off whats happened since, what if they are more like the team that we have seen the past month and a half? Now I don't agree with that, but it's just as likely as the team that appeared in the first quarter. The truth is they drastically overachieved in the first quarter and have subsequently underachieved just as much in the second quarter, but all things being equal this is about where this roster deserves to be, they are well behind the other three teams in the division based on talent and are a wild-card caliber team. It's a tough pill to swallow for those who drank Rob Blake's contenders kool-aid but there is no way you can look at the rosters of Vancouver, Vegas and Edmonton and think the Kings have a solid chance to beat any of these teams in a 7-game series, especially without home ice, where the Kings roster weaknesses can be further exploited.

When was the last time a team won a Stanley Cup when their two best players were that old?
When was the last time a team won a Stanley Cup without a Top 50 player in the NHL?
When was the last time a team won a Stanley Cup with a goaltender as bad as Talbot?

You think the Kings are going to be an all-time historical fluke and defy all these things and maybe contend for a cup?

I just don't see how all this historical evidence can just be pushed aside because they are the team we cheer for. We are 60% of the way through the season, the Kings are about on par with teams like Detroit, NY Islanders, Nashville and Philadelphia, do you think those teams are contenders who should be adding at the deadline? I would guess 100% of the people on this forum would laugh and say no, but why do we act differently towards the Kings, despite the Kings having an identical resume 60% of the way through the year?

No team sitting where the Kings are in the standings in the 2nd week of February should ever consider trading a player like Arthur Kaliyev to chase a completely unrealistic goal. Kaliyev can have a clear role here next season when a competent manager comes in and puts the team back on the correct path towards building a contender, it would be ridiculous to give that up to try put a band-aid on a terminal illness.

Ownership should not allow Rob Blake to do anything else that may damage this team long-term, this is his last-stand as far as coaching staff and roster.

I'm mostly just saying we need to take the next month to get a better idea of how good this team really is because as of right now it's hard to assess. Are they as good as the team we saw in the first 2/3rds of the season, as bad as they've been in the last 1/3rd of the season, or somewhere in the middle? We don't know - But I wouldn't say it's blind faith to think the team we saw in the first 2/3rds of the season is a more accurate representation of the Kings.

We saw this team play amazing hockey for the first 30+ games of the season (They were 5th in the NHL in points percentage 33 games into the season - This puts us at January 1, 2024) then play terrible hockey for the month of January. We know this team can play VERY good hockey because we've seen this team play VERY good hockey.

Here's the problem (reference the bold part).... We just flat out don't know if that assessment is true. Did they overachieve in the first 30 games??? Or was that just the team playing to their potential?? We don't know. Yet you throw it out there like it's truth/fact. So how can we have this conversation? When you're claiming something as fact that is just your subjective assessment?

Again, at the end of the day we've seen this team be great through 67% of the season, and bad through 33% of the season. So why is it 'blind faith' for me to believe the team that the 67% is a more accurate representation of the team?

Ultimately you might be right - Maybe the team did overachieve for the first 67% of the season and the last 33% of the season has been them coming down to earth/reality. Or maybe the last 33% was just a terrible slump that showed this team at it's absolute worst.

Here's the thing for me (and if you disagree that's fine lol)....

- If the Kings are really as good as they looked through the first 67% of the season to date - I don't think it's completely ridiculous to be buyers at the deadline and I do like the Kings chances in a 7 game series against anyone.​

- If the Kings are really as good as they've shown to date (in that wildcard playoff spot conversation) - I think it's a bad idea to buy at the deadline.​

- If the Kings are really as bad as they've shown in the last month or so - I think they should sell at the deadline.​

I'm not saying they should go all in even as a wildcard team. And I'm not saying they'd have a perfect roster and would be cup favorites if they turn things around. I'm just saying, the team we saw at the beginning of the year sure as hell looked like a contender - So we should use the next month to evaluate whether they can get back to that level or if it really was just an extended hot start as you'd suggest.

 

[Herby]

Holy f***...did he also predict the sun will rise in the east?

Tell me, if some team offers a top 10 1st for Turcotte, do you trade him?

What if they offer a Faber like player, do you trade Turcotte for him?

People are being realistic. Turcotte has minimal trade value, if he were dealt it would be for some veteran 4th line center or 3rd pairing LHD, and people would rather keep him here and see what he could develop into. I don't kno why you are suggesting things like Faber or a Top 10 pick, I think we all know the return would not be anything exciting.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

People are being realistic. Turcotte has minimal trade value, if he were dealt it would be for some veteran 4th line center or 3rd pairing LHD, and people would rather keep him here and see what he could develop into. I don't kno why you are suggesting things like Faber or a Top 10 pick, I think we all know the return would not be anything exciting.

Because it's a bit ludicrous to get into a hissy fit about Turcotte's NAME being involved in trade rumours, like that's some surprise?

 

[kilowatt]

Because it's a bit ludicrous to get into a hissy fit about Turcotte's NAME being involved in trade rumours, like that's some surprise?

You were the first and only person to respond to that. You’re the one throwing a hissy fit about our hypothetical responses.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You were the first and only person to respond to that. You’re the one throwing a hissy fit about our hypothetical responses.

Well except for the.....get the pitchforks ready....apparently, I wasn't the only one anticipating idiotic responses......but try again.

 

[johnjm22]

Byfield has surpassed Stutzle.

 

[Schmooley]

Byfield has surpassed Stutzle.

Since the last time they played Ottawa I havent seen anyone on here talk about Stutzle. He was diving the whole game.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Byfield has surpassed Stutzle.

Byfield can still fill out.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Since the last time they played Ottawa I havent seen anyone on here talk about Stutzle. He was diving the whole game.

Yah, still wondering if a certain poster will apologize for their ‘Mark Yannetti is a liar’ comments….implying Yannetti was lying through his teeth when he stated the org felt Byfield was on track at start of this season. lol…

 

[johnjm22]

 

[All The Kings Men]

tsk... should have set the upper limit at 21 years old and move Byfield into 1st place