LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[YP44]

I'm usually not a "culture" guy, but I think PLD is the exact type of player you don't want on the roster when you're trying to rebuild and bring in young players.

The highest paid player on the team would be a lazy, overrated, overpaid, unmotivated prima donna loser. It's bad for the whole team IMO.

I agree, i do understand the argument he has not been used effectively though either. His minutes are way below his career norms as is his PP time. he is being used as a 3rd line center which really Danault should be given his defensive pedigree. Hoepfully things change with a new coach and with RV returning.

 

[CarlSneep]

Kempe should be a prime guy to move since his value will never be higher, his contract is doable and he's not actually that good so replacing him will be easy but the current management seem incredibly invested in presenting him as a success so I doubt they trade him.

 

[Herby]

I'm usually not a "culture" guy, but I think PLD is the exact type of player you don't want on the roster when you're trying to rebuild and bring in young players.

The highest paid player on the team would be a lazy, overrated, overpaid, unmotivated prima donna loser. It's bad for the whole team IMO.

But what do you do?

Buy him out? That's a lot of money for ownership to shell out and it creates cap penalties for years, and hardest in a time where the Kings would hopefully be coming out of the rebuild.

Trade him for Huberdeau? It seems lateral, a lot of the same issues.

 

[AbsentMojo]

Then we are right back here again next year. How do you add the type of high-end pieces needed if you aren't going to do a full rebuild? Hard to find 1C's and 1D's losing in round 1 and picking 18th.

Nothing against any of those guys, they have all good players for the most part, even if they were just the wrong guys at the wrong time, but they have to be moved to create opportunities and to make sure the team is bottom 5 next year.

Dont you think one of the core problem is you have 2 league top 10 contracts tied up in DD and Kopi without the corresponding high end value. Then you added 8.5m sunk cost on PLD for 7 yrs, Peterson fallout(Provorov) and you are left with about the same amount of cap ballast as Minne is with the Suter and Parise buyouts. Kopi salary next season is more reasonable, but the whole idea of building around DD and Kopi to me was the primary miscalculation. They are not strong enough leaders and their skills are declining rapidly. To me that needs to be addressed by any new GM.. Move DD and make Kopi professor emeritus with a new captain and leadership group.

 

[bland]

But what do you do?

Buy him out? That's a lot of money for ownership to shell out and it creates cap penalties for years, and hardest in a time where the Kings would hopefully be coming out of the rebuild.

Trade him for Huberdeau? It seems lateral, a lot of the same issues.

Its nowhere near the actual cash they would be paying him. $30+ million in savings AND a better product shouldn't be a difficult sell.

 

[Herby]

Dont you think one of the core problem is you have 2 league top 10 contracts tied up in DD and Kopi without the corresponding high end value. Then you added 8.5m sunk cost on PLD for 7 yrs, Peterson fallout(Provorov) and you are left with about the same amount of cap ballast as Minne is with the Suter and Parise buyouts. Kopi salary next season is more reasonable, but the whole idea of building around DD and Kopi to me was the primary miscalculation. They are not strong enough leaders and their skills are declining rapidly. To me that needs to be addressed by any new GM.. Move DD and make Kopi professor emeritus with a new captain and leadership group.

The core problem was the Kings ended their rebuild in 2021 instead of 2024. That is why we are in the spot we are right now, none of these terrible trades would have happened if that simple decision had never been made. Look at where the Kings would be right now with young assets if that decision had never been made.

I hate to go Axl here, but the fact is most people cheered these terrible moves on at the time they happened. Danault and Arvidsson are good players and seem like great dudes, but those moves were the beginning of the end for Rob Blake ever building a winner in LA. It inevitably meant there would be more trading of youth, which there was, including the best player the team has drafted in a dozen years and it meant the team was moving on from drafting near the top of the draft, resulting in missing out on potential franchise players, to chase 1st round playoff losses instead.

Big picture the moves made in the summer of 2021 were some of the worst in team history.

 

[Kudelski37]

Then we are right back here again next year. How do you add the type of high-end pieces needed if you aren't going to do a full rebuild? Hard to find 1C's and 1D's losing in round 1 and picking 18th.

Nothing against any of those guys, they have all good players for the most part, even if they were just the wrong guys at the wrong time, but they have to be moved to create opportunities and to make sure the team is bottom 5 next year.

This overlooks Byfield as a possible 1C.

I don't follow players before they are drafted unless they play with someone that the Kings or Caps drafted. Is the 2025 draft supposed to be good?

My thought is get rid of the UFAs and Lizotte at the deadline if the team doesn't start dominating and see what the kids can do. Buy out PLD this summer. If Doughty and Kopitar want out, add them.

If they are worse, they get a better pick and are able to sell off next year. If they are the same or better, than the kids are making progress. I think losing PLD would be a positive for the team. The young kids could thrive in the correct roles with consistent playing time.

 

[Johnny Utah]

I keep asking if the teams chemistry was ruined by moving out AI, Durzi and Quick and bringing in PLD.

I agree, I would have blown up the roster completely and traded Doughty - who was the only one unhappy with the rebuild.

 

[Kudelski37]

But what do you do?

Buy him out? That's a lot of money for ownership to shell out and it creates cap penalties for years, and hardest in a time where the Kings would hopefully be coming out of the rebuild.

Trade him for Huberdeau? It seems lateral, a lot of the same issues.

Most years, the cap penalty is less than 2 million including the two years of Kopitar's extension. There are only 3 years in the 3.xx range. That is the max amount and should be offset by some cheap contracts from prospects/picks from trades this year.

Ownership will pay PLD 27.3 million over ~13 years if bought out this summer. Ownership will pay him ~23 million over the next 2 years if he remains with the Kings. Invest the yearly savings and collect interest to pay future money to PLD to reduce the difference. There isn't a down side to the buyout.

 

[Kudelski37]

I keep asking if the teams chemistry was ruined by moving out AI, Durzi and Quick and bringing in PLD.

I agree, I would have blown up the roster completely and traded Doughty - who was the only one unhappy with the rebuild.

I think moving Durzi negated PLD's pp skill of deflecting point shots. Durzi and Vilardi were very good working those plays last year. Spence and Doughty don't really set up deflections like Durzi.

I think any time a group or team has someone getting paid much more than their performance has ever justified and it limits options, it creates a problem whether it is a sport or a business.

 

[tny760]

trent you're not supposed to say that part out loud!

 

[BaileyFan]

I seriously doubt AEG has the appetite for another full-scale tear down just a few years after the previous one and after spending so much time hyping this group up as Kopi and DD’s last stand. Especially since they are still tied to both players for at least 2 seasons.

The Kings as currently constructed are a bubble team next year that would probably still get 2-3 home playoffs dates. I think once Blake goes, ownership will pick someone who they know will either stay the course or do yet another “retool on the fly” as long as Kopi is here.

 

[YP44]

I seriously doubt AEG has the appetite for another full-scale tear down just a few years after the previous one and after spending so much time hyping this group up as Kopi and DD’s last stand. Especially since they are still tied to both players for at least 2 seasons.

The Kings as currently constructed are a bubble team next year that would probably still get 2-3 home playoffs dates. I think once Blake goes, ownership will pick someone who they know will either stay the course or do yet another “retool on the fly” as long as Kopi is here.

Was it a full scale teardown given Brown, Kopitar, Quick and Doughty were not moved out?
I would say no, and I also am not of the believe they needed to.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Just get a goalie & go for it.
Roy + goalie + Clarke PP1 > 8

Love all this trade or buyout PLD talk. Ownership is really going to go for that. Buckle up for another 7.5 years.

 

[dman3474]

They aren't going to buy him out, no one is going to trade for him, and the kings should not move multiple picks to get rid of him.

It sucks but they are stuck with him. They need to minimize the damage he does to the rest of the team and try to milk every little bit of game he has in him to not be a liability. If he doesn't start playing like he gives two shits at center, then move him to wing. If that doesn't do anything then he can move down to the 4th line. If he doesn't like it he can go to his agent and request a trade, and he can put it together and get himself shipped out at a fair cost.

On the off chance that this is where DJ comes in and is the PLD whisperer then that's great! He can be an asset to the team and go from there. Maybe this is growing pains. Kempe didn't have his first real good season until he was 25, and I'm sure there are other players who have hit their strides later in their careers. I am grasping at straws but I really don't think he is going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Statto]

It's really unfortunate for the Kings that we have a GM that's job is on the line, we could actually do something logical like trade 31 year-old Danault to an actual contender to free up space and a center spot.

But instead we will keep Danault, either miss or lose in the 1st round and then the new GM will trade him this summer for less value than he would have at this years deadline because the contending team will get two playoff runs instead of three.

I’ve been saying that about Danault since the start of the season. Completely agree with your reasoning. I like the player and he’s been good value but it’s time.

 

[DoktorJeep]

The last time I was happy with Rob Blake was when he drafted Byfield. A couple weeks later he signed Danault, effectively blocking QB. We’re in year 2.5 of Danault’s 6 year deal. And people are ready to move him for futures.

I said at the time that Danault was the new Brian Smolinski. Solid second fiddle on an average team. But ultimately over played and over paid for a contender.

Look at Stoll. Paid 4.25M to be a 2C on a team building towards a championship and the exact same amount on a dynasty. And he made that same money as a 3C when he killed Vlasic on the way to coming back from an 0-3 playoff deficit.

Can you imagine Smolinski doing what Stoll did? If not, then don’t buy into the spin around how amazing Phillip Danult is.

 

[kilowatt]

The last time I was happy with Rob Blake was when he drafted Byfield. A couple weeks later he signed Danault, effectively blocking QB. We’re in year 2.5 of Danault’s 6 year deal. And people are ready to move him for futures.

I said at the time that Danault was the new Brian Smolinski. Solid second fiddle on an average team. But ultimately over played and over paid for a contender.

Look at Stoll. Paid 4.25M to be a 2C on a team building towards a championship and the exact same amount on a dynasty. And he made that same money as a 3C when he killed Vlasic on the way to coming back from an 0-3 playoff deficit.

Can you imagine Smolinski doing what Stoll did? If not, then don’t buy into the spin around how amazing Phillip Danult is.

The entire rebuild hinged on Byfield becoming a 1C and letting Kopitar and Danault shift down to 2C and 3C. Except that Blake forgot and traded for Dubois last year too. We're in a much better place if Byfield was playing 1C (or at least 2C) and Kaliyev was a top six winger.

Vilardi - Byfield - Kempe
Fiala - Kopitar - Kaliyev
Moore - Danault - Arvidsson

Of course, that's not what happened.

 

[johnjm22]

But what do you do?

Buy him out? That's a lot of money for ownership to shell out and it creates cap penalties for years, and hardest in a time where the Kings would hopefully be coming out of the rebuild.

Trade him for Huberdeau? It seems lateral, a lot of the same issues.

This will be a very unpopular opinion, but I would give up a 1st round pick (or two) to get rid of him, and take back a short term bad contract.

Would another team take it? I don't know. But I suspect it would garner some interest.

Hopefully you wouldn't have to give up that much.

Take the pain now. Clean house. Wipe the slate clean and start anew.

 

[DoktorJeep]

The entire rebuild hinged on Byfield becoming a 1C and letting Kopitar and Danault shift down to 2C and 3C. Except that Blake forgot and traded for Dubois last year too. We're in a much better place if Byfield was playing 1C (or at least 2C) and Kaliyev was a top six winger.

Vilardi - Byfield - Kempe
Fiala - Kopitar - Kaliyev
Moore - Danault - Arvidsson

Of course, that's not what happened.

Thank DL (and god) that the previous, actual rebuild didn’t hinge on Kopitar becoming 1C and letting Demitra and Conroy shift down to 2C and 3C.

 

[kilowatt]

Thank DL (and god) that the previous, actual rebuild didn’t hinge on Kopitar becoming 1C and letting Demitra and Conroy shift down to 2C and 3C.

I don't disagree. In fact, I've mentioned the Ewing effect a few times through the years. LA would likely be in a better place without Doughty and Kopitar. It's too difficult to butterfly effect the whole roster, but there's a world in which Byfield and Turcotte are our top two centers and Faber and Clarke are our top two defenders.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

The core problem was the Kings ended their rebuild in 2021 instead of 2024. That is why we are in the spot we are right now, none of these terrible trades would have happened if that simple decision had never been made. Look at where the Kings would be right now with young assets if that decision had never been made.

I hate to go Axl here, but the fact is most people cheered these terrible moves on at the time they happened. Danault and Arvidsson are good players and seem like great dudes, but those moves were the beginning of the end for Rob Blake ever building a winner in LA. It inevitably meant there would be more trading of youth, which there was, including the best player the team has drafted in a dozen years and it meant the team was moving on from drafting near the top of the draft, resulting in missing out on potential franchise players, to chase 1st round playoff losses instead.

Big picture the moves made in the summer of 2021 were some of the worst in team history.

Let's keep going, let's assume they are still rebuilding now....so instead of Fiala, PLD, Arvidsson, Danault Gavrikov etc, they have Faber, Vilardi, Kupari, Durzi, Walker,

What prevents them from being Buffalo south?

 

[Kudelski37]

This will be a very unpopular opinion, but I would give up a 1st round pick (or two) to get rid of him, and take back a short term bad contract.

What do you think it would take to trade him and with how much retention? I think any trade would require more retention than the cap hit of a buy out for the next 7 years. A bad contract coming back would likely mean the first rounders would be very high because the team would struggle to field a good team. Trading one or more firsts would simply provide the Kings 1.1 million dollars in cap space in years 8-14. This works out to an extra healthy scratch almost a decade from now. I don't see the upside of a trade.

I really see this as the same situation the Kings were in with Richards in the summer of 2014. There is a very clear option that is best for the team. Betting on the player improving will likely ruin the team for most of a decade.

 

[Herby]

Why do you guys think AEG would be hesitant to do a proper and traditional rebuild when the last time they did a rebuild it resulted in 2 Stanley Cups, 14 playoff series wins and 36 home playoff games between 2010-2014.

Rob Blake's 6+ seasons as GM have resulted in 0 Cups, 0 Playoff series wins and 8 home playoff games between 2018 and now.

Do you really think they are that short sighted?

The entire rebuild hinged on Byfield becoming a 1C and letting Kopitar and Danault shift down to 2C and 3C. Except that Blake forgot and traded for Dubois last year too. We're in a much better place if Byfield was playing 1C (or at least 2C) and Kaliyev was a top six winger.

Vilardi - Byfield - Kempe
Fiala - Kopitar - Kaliyev
Moore - Danault - Arvidsson

Of course, that's not what happened.

The Kings weren't offering Danault the most money and a scoring line opportunity for him to play the role you suggested. Many people thought it on the day he was signed, but it was wishful thinking. He was brought in because Blake believed he gave the Kings the best chance to win a Stanley Cup in the next 3 years out of any of the C's available.

 

[Brownie to Pancakes]

Let's keep going, let's assume they are still rebuilding now....so instead of Fiala, PLD, Arvidsson, Danault Gavrikov etc, they have Faber, Vilardi, Kupari, Durzi, Walker,

What prevents them from being Buffalo south?

Do the math on what each player group costs. Cheap production is a benefit almost too obvious to mention, but here we are. A shrewd GM starting from that core should be able to monitor their development and add pieces that complement the group in terms of culture, leadership, toughness, positional need etc. Everybody knows there's no guarantee that it succeeds, but it's a better starting point than the cap hell, no goalie, TOI leaders with dentures, young players blocked, "too many centers but not enough centers" shitshow we see right now.