LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[Statto]

This organization would be in a much healthier place if Kopitar and Doughty were moved during the rebuild. Doesn’t make sense to hold onto players like that and have them be top guys still when the rebuild is done. Just crazy.

Maybe or we waste the assets and it’s worse…. Anyone’s guess and given they choose not to play Clarke I’m certainly not confident we’d be in a better spot.

 

[Sol]

Maybe or we waste the assets and it’s worse…. Anyone’s guess and given they choose not to play Clarke I’m certainly not confident we’d be in a better spot.

I hope not to offend my fellow fans when I say that the Kings dropping Kopitar and Doughty would have put the Kings in a much better position as an organization regardless of the standings.

 

[AnThGrt]

I’d take Timo Meier just because when I’ve seen him play he’s trying but there’s no talent in NJ.

NJ are called the Devils. The play in the Metropolitan division and are a NHL team. Talk about an asinine comment.

J. Hughes - 45 pts in 32 games one of the top MVP candidates
J. Bratt - 73 pts last two seasons and this year 88 pts pace (better than any King)
N. Hischier - Near selke level two-way 25pts in 33g
T. Toffoli - Should remember him 30+g pace with 56 points
L. Hughes - As a rookie D on pace of 15g and 45 pts (Can only hope Clarke does semi as well)
3 more forwards at 0.5ppg or better

Can go one yet get the point.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

NJ are called the Devils. The play in the Metropolitan division and are a NHL team. Talk about an asinine comment.

J. Hughes - 45 pts in 32 games one of the top MVP candidates
J. Bratt - 73 pts last two seasons and this year 88 pts pace (better than any King)
N. Hischier - Near selke level two-way 25pts in 33g
T. Toffoli - Should remember him 30+g pace with 56 points
L. Hughes - As a rookie D on pace of 15g and 45 pts (Can only hope Clarke does semi as well)
3 more forwards at 0.5ppg or better

Can go one yet get the point.

No one here gives a f*** about all the shiny toys in NJ.

 

[Herby]

NJ are called the Devils. The play in the Metropolitan division and are a NHL team. Talk about an asinine comment.

J. Hughes - 45 pts in 32 games one of the top MVP candidates
J. Bratt - 73 pts last two seasons and this year 88 pts pace (better than any King)
N. Hischier - Near selke level two-way 25pts in 33g
T. Toffoli - Should remember him 30+g pace with 56 points
L. Hughes - As a rookie D on pace of 15g and 45 pts (Can only hope Clarke does semi as well)
3 more forwards at 0.5ppg or better

Can go one yet get the point.

Zero AHL games between all 4 guys on that list that were drafted by the Devils. Amazing how good they all turned out without "learning the system" and "paying their dues", you could also throw in Mercer, another guy with zero AHL games.

Or did they draft five "McDavid caliber players", damn I'd love to just have one.

But I'm sure GBH will be here soon to bring up Nemec, all that Nemec shows is that the organization is willing to be flexible with how they handle all their players as some guys maybe need to be handled differently, as opposed to the Kings and their forced conscription they require everyone to go through in Ontario before maybe getting a shot to play with JAD and Englund, if you are lucky enough to even dress when your called up.

 

[Statto]

I hope not to offend my fellow fans when I say that the Kings dropping Kopitar and Doughty would have put the Kings in a much better position as an organization regardless of the standings.

I’m certainly not offended and definitely see the argument either way, back when it was decision time. The argument for keeping them was to give act as vets to teach the kids the right way and act as scaffolding with a late run maybe as a 2/3C and #2/3D respectively as the kids developed. However, they were not used that way and the rebuild ended too early.

For me it is not so much about the right/wring approach but the execution of the chosen option. At this point I’d need a lot of convincing they’d have gotten a full tear down correct either.

 

[Herby]

I’m certainly not offended and definitely see the argument either way, back when it was decision time. The argument for keeping them was to give act as vets to teach the kids the right way and act as scaffolding with a late run maybe as a 2/3C and #2/3D respectively as the kids developed. However, they were not used that way and the rebuild ended too early.

For me it is not so much about the right/wring approach but the execution of the chosen option. At this point I’d need a lot of convincing they’d have gotten a full tear down correct either.

That is maybe what they were originally going to do, but then Drew had his little hissy fit and went to the media with his whining and how he was sick of losing and wasn't going to be happy unless changes were made. They tried to keep the youth and high picks with UFA Danault and Arvy for non 1sts, but they still weren't close to contending and the result was the trading of the best player they've drafted in Faber, Vilardi right when he finally figured it out and two other 1st rounders, plus destroying any hope of adding the high end talent they are still sorely lacking by not getting high picks in 22 and 23.

That is why I think KP is off when he says they should have used DD and AK to insulate the youth, maybe AK would have gone for it, but no way was it happening with Drew. Blake should have known from the start that Doughty wasn't going to be on board and traded him around 2019, that was mistake number one, mistake two was giving into his demands and not trading him in the summer of 2021. Rob Blake ended a rebuild that could have actually worked with a little lottery luck in 2023 to give in to the demands of a 32 year old who's play on the ice was trending down anyways.

 

[King'sPawn]

That is maybe what they were originally going to do, but then Drew had his little hissy fit and went to the media with his whining and how he was sick of losing and wasn't going to be happy unless changes were made. They tried to keep the youth and high picks with UFA Danault and Arvy for non 1sts, but they still weren't close to contending and the result was the trading of the best player they've drafted in Faber, Vilardi right when he finally figured it out and two other 1st rounders, plus destroying any hope of adding the high end talent they are still sorely lacking by not getting high picks in 22 and 23.

That is why I think KP is off when he says they should have used DD and AK to insulate the youth, maybe AK would have gone for it, but no way was it happening with Drew. Blake should have known from the start that Doughty wasn't going to be on board and traded him around 2019, that was mistake number one, mistake two was giving into his demands and not trading him in the summer of 2021. Rob Blake ended a rebuild that could have actually worked with a little lottery luck in 2023 to give in to the demands of a 32 year old who's play on the ice was trending down anyways.

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Of course, anyone who wouldn't buy in to a rebuild should be removed. That should have gone without saying - but that is my fault for not explicitly stating as such.

 

[Schrute farms]

I def think Kopi would have accepted a mentor role.

DD is another story. He wouldn't like it; but he'd have to weigh that against living the SoCal beach life. I'm not sure which one would have won out in the end. I think ultimately a trade.

 

[Piston]

I'm reminded of what Bill Guerin did in Minnesota. He paid a huge price but wanted to get Suter and Parise out of the locker room. He likely felt that he needed new leadership voices. The Kings would not have had to pay such a huge recapture penalty since DD still had value. Blake's fatal error, one which will likely cost him his job, was believing that the old core could still deliver another Cup.

 

[fivehole32]

I'm reminded of what Bill Guerin did in Minnesota. He paid a huge price but wanted to get Suter and Parise out of the locker room. He likely felt that he needed new leadership voices. The Kings would not have had to pay such a huge recapture penalty since DD still had value. Blake's fatal error, one which will likely cost him his job, was believing that the old core could still deliver another Cup.

My last year having season tickets was the year Lombardi was fired. Luc and Blake had a STH meeting before one of the games left in the season and the mantra over and over was "the window is still open." Where we are at is equally the fault of business operations and hockey operations. On the business side they know there isn't the stomach of a lot of STH for an actual rebuild and on the hockey operations it's just bad management of players and contracts.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm reminded of what Bill Guerin did in Minnesota. He paid a huge price but wanted to get Suter and Parise out of the locker room. He likely felt that he needed new leadership voices. The Kings would not have had to pay such a huge recapture penalty since DD still had value. Blake's fatal error, one which will likely cost him his job, was believing that the old core could still deliver another Cup.

I'm ambivalent on actually keeping Kopitar and Doughty around. I personally really liked the idea of them mentoring the new folks. But they've clearly unfortunately been utilized incredibly poorly and too much and I think they've had far too much pull. So the idea of them staying--I was fine with that. But the how? Ugh. Disaster.

Imagine Kopitar playing 2C for a contender and Doughty, even #1 minutes, but reduced to 20-22 instead of 28-30.

 

[Schmooley]

Imagine Kopitar playing 2C for a contender and Doughty, even #1 minutes, but reduced to 20-22 instead of 28-30.

Both would have value if Kings retain salary. Kopitar to Colorado or Boston half retained and Doughty to Toronto half retained would be perfect fits for them. Kings could get some first rounders in return and try to get more high end talent to do it by the book this time around. And they wouldnt be too bad of an on ice product in the mean time that fans wont buy tickets.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Doughty is not and never will be a mentor type.

He should’ve been jettisoned to Toronto years ago.

Kopitar and Brown could’ve definitely played that role and stuck around for the duration of their careers. The nature of Kopitar’s contract windows in general makes it difficult to move him at any point before now.

In another universe, Dean is allowed to play hardball with Kopitar like he wanted to back in 2016, and who knows what kind of ripple effect that has on the franchise.

 

[Piston]

Both would have value if Kings retain salary. Kopitar to Colorado or Boston half retained and Doughty to Toronto half retained would be perfect fits for them. Kings could get some first rounders in return and try to get more high end talent to do it by the book this time around. And they wouldnt be too bad of an on ice product in the mean time that fans wont buy tickets.

Kopitar will never waive his NTC, Doughty probably would if he was going to Toronto. It would cost us some dead cap space but getting new leadership into the locker room would be worth it.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Doughty is not and never will be a mentor type.

He should’ve been jettisoned to Toronto years ago.

Kopitar and Brown could’ve definitely played that role and stuck around for the duration of their careers. The nature of Kopitar’s contract windows in general makes it difficult to move him at any point before now.

In another universe, Dean is allowed to play hardball with Kopitar like he wanted to back in 2016, and who knows what kind of ripple effect that has on the franchise.

Like I said--I'm ambivalent either way. I think they could have found a way to either trade OR retain both guys or either and still had a road to success and one can make a strong case for any of those multiverses. But I think they've found and chosen the worst possible reality--build around their silver fox versions and run them into the ground.

 

[BigKing]

You guys know that this f***ing organization is throwing a "Legend In The Making Night" on Wednesday for Kopitar so they can celebrate his achievements?

What the actual f***?!? Having a legends night while the guy is still the 1C on the team pretty much says everything that needs to be said.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You guys know that this f***ing organization is throwing a "Legend In The Making Night" on Wednesday for Kopitar so they can celebrate his achievements?

What the actual f***?!? Having a legends night while the guy is still the 1C on the team pretty much says everything that needs to be said.

Sounds like...a guy who may be retiring back to slovenia at the end of the year leaving us on the hook for the rest of his 35+ contract

 

[BaileyFan]

Doughty made himself untradeable with his contract and tendency to completely mail it in once the playoffs were out of reach. The first half of 2021 when the Kings were kinda sorta in the playoff race he was getting some dark horse Norris buzz then completely tanked with the rest of the team which triggered his outburst after the season. Blake should’ve told him to stop crying and enjoy his $11 million or do what EK65 did and actually try for a full season so a trade would be possible.

 

[Statto]

You guys know that this f***ing organization is throwing a "Legend In The Making Night" on Wednesday for Kopitar so they can celebrate his achievements?

What the actual f***?!? Having a legends night while the guy is still the 1C on the team pretty much says everything that needs to be said.

That stuff should always be saved for after a players retirement. Yes he deserves a whole bunch of accolades but the timing is bizarre at best. Given the current situation it’s even worse than that.

 

[Herby]

I'm ambivalent on actually keeping Kopitar and Doughty around. I personally really liked the idea of them mentoring the new folks. But they've clearly unfortunately been utilized incredibly poorly and too much and I think they've had far too much pull. So the idea of them staying--I was fine with that. But the how? Ugh. Disaster.

Imagine Kopitar playing 2C for a contender and Doughty, even #1 minutes, but reduced to 20-22 instead of 28-30.

They absolutely should have traded Doughty, ideally the moment they took over (their Demitra trade), but it should have been a no-brainer after the 2019 season when any thoughts that the Core Four could win another cup should have been permanently dashed. I think not doing that may be Blake's worst decision as GM, but awarding that honor is like asking my daughter and all her friends a consensus on their favorite Taylor Swift song.

I think they could have made it work with Kopitar (assuming he was ok with it), still a pretty good player who you can market to casual fans, who helps you get to the cap floor (where the Kings should have been from 2019-2023) and who can be a mentor for the guys they drafted. And if you end up with a Bedard, Fantilli, Carlsson or Smith you can gradually change the guard this season and next to them as the 1C and limit Kopi's minutes because you aren't in this "cup or bust" crap that Luc and Blake have put us in.

You guys know that this f***ing organization is throwing a "Legend In The Making Night" on Wednesday for Kopitar so they can celebrate his achievements?

What the actual f***?!? Having a legends night while the guy is still the 1C on the team pretty much says everything that needs to be said.

I still can't believe we haven't had a Nelson Emerson Legends Night.

 

[BigKing]

That stuff should always be saved for after a players retirement. Yes he deserves a whole bunch of accolades but the timing is bizarre at best. Given the current situation it’s even worse than that.

You do a little something for 1,000 games/points, 500 goals, I guess they are doing this because he passed Brown in games played earlier this season and passed Dionne for most assists? They already did a little thing during a TV timeout for the games played complete with a video on the jumbotron from Brown.

On one hand, they just dump Quick right after a road win in Winnipeg so it's like "Blake is cold...he's like Belichick now" but then we get a Legends Night for the current TOI leader amongst forwards.

If we want to keep holding on to the good times, roll Matt Greene out there for an actual Legends Night.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

I wasn't able to watch the game on Saturday - How did Byfield look at center??

Obviously the whole PLD situation sucks but if Byfield can be an option down the middle for us that's huge.

 

[Sol]

When I have kids I’m going to tell them how lucky I was to go to Nelson Emerson legends night

 

[Lt Dan]

I wasn't able to watch the game on Saturday - How did Byfield look at center??

Obviously the whole PLD situation sucks but if Byfield can be an option down the middle for us that's huge.

He looked great

Dare I say that he looked Better than Ezra?