LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[funky]

The 4th line is pretty annoying recently.

Grundstrom is showing that he is better as a spot player and not an everyday player. They need some jam on the 4th line.

this in my mind is a very underrated statement. I love Grundy, and I love Lewis, and I think Lizotte's hustle is contagious but for some reason I do not like our 4th line. We have all this talent up front and we waste that talents energy matching them up against oppositions top lines. Grundy seems like he is hot or cold.

Give me a true shutdown and heavy forecheck 4th line that can play with energy, attitude and blow the odd person up just to set a tone. A line that can shut down a top 2 line.

I believe it was you that brought up Hathaway earlier. Would love him with a large defensive first center and a speedy in your face SCUD missile on the other wing. forecheck hard, hit to rattle teeth, defend your primadonnas and trap the opposition in their end.....don't apologize.

We are paying our 4th line $3.775 mil. Hathaway makes $2,375 alone so we would have to get Philly to eat some cash. I would love him but I can't see him going anywhere with Torts as a coach.

With our laid back captain and coaching staff it would be nice to see someone inject a little spark.

 

[Johnny Utah]

I have mentioned Hathaway a few times and even spoke with Dennis Bernstein about it and he re-posted my tweet.

Cash would be an issue, but a Hathaway would really change the 4th line. Look at this hit below on McDavid.



I threw out some other names - basically you can go down the list of every team and pick out a similar player...Mathieu Olivier is another one I'm looking at - he is spot playing currently and with Gudbranson playing everyday, Columbus doesn't really need Olivier.

 

[bland]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Kings 4th line, its one of the very best in the league and is one of the strengths of this team.

No knuckle-chucker will ever have the impact as having physical skill players. That is the teams weakness. Toughness is perseverance, not retaliation.

 

[Johnny Utah]

If you all remember a few years back MacDermid was playing almost every game and then started making some bone head plays and about half way thru the season he stopped playing. Then Blake added Lemieux at the deadline because he said they were missing that "element" up front.

 

[Herby]

So if Spence were given the same minutes his numbers may be higher?

They are obviously different players. Faber wouldn’t be getting those minutes in LA.

You are comparing mostly offensive numbers between these players, but Faber is currently one of the better defensive d-man in the NHL and he has a half seasons NHL (and pro) experience. Just imagine what he will be like when he has 200 pro games under his belt. I think you are just drastically understating just how good this kid is defensively, this is not hyperbole, he has a chance to be one of if not the best defensive d-man in the NHL when he hits his peak.

Also the "he wouldn't get these minutes in LA" line should not be used as a criticism or to minimize Faber, it should be used to show just how ridiculous this organizations philosophy with how to develop players is. This has been one of the better defensive players in the NHL this season, and had he not been traded he probably would have been playing for the Ontario Reign, because this organization is not a meritocracy, especially with young defenseman. The fact that this player would have been fighting an uphill battle because "He needs to pay his dues" or "He needs to learn the system" is a real indictment on this team and the development choices they make.

Also, had the Kings had their way he would have been signed after his sophomore year and forced to rot in the AHL in 2022-23, and probably would be a lesser player. Returning to college is a big reason he is where he is, as the NCAA straight to the NHL is a much much better path for a player like Faber to develop than spending a year in the garbage AHL. But the Kings organization will never feel that way, they think the AHL is the end-all be-all with player development, whether the player is 18, 19, 20, 21, 22.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You are comparing mostly offensive numbers between these players, but Faber is currently one of the better defensive d-man in the NHL and he has a half seasons NHL (and pro) experience. Just imagine what he will be like when he has 200 pro games under his belt. I think you are just drastically understating just how good this kid is defensively, this is not hyperbole, he has a chance to be one of if not the best defensive d-man in the NHL when he hits his peak.

Also the "he wouldn't get these minutes in LA" line should not be used as a criticism or to minimize Faber, it should be used to show just how ridiculous this organizations philosophy with how to develop players is. This has been one of the better defensive players in the NHL this season, and had he not been traded he probably would have been playing for the Ontario Reign, because this organization is not a meritocracy, especially with young defenseman. The fact that this player would have been fighting an uphill battle because "He needs to pay his dues" or "He needs to learn the system" is a real indictment on this team and the development choices they make.

Also, had the Kings had their way he would have been signed after his sophomore year and forced to rot in the AHL in 2022-23, and probably would be a lesser player. Returning to college is a big reason he is where he is, as the NCAA straight to the NHL is a much much better path for a player like Faber to develop than the AHL. But the Kings organization will never feel that way, they think the AHL is the end-all be-all with player development, whether the player is 18, 19, 20, 21, 22.

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So you think they would give him the Spence treatment....not the Mikey Andersson treatment, or 1st year Bjornfoot,

 

[Herby]

So you think they would give him the Spence treatment....not the Mikey Andersson treatment, or 1st year Bjornfoot,

Bjornfot played in the AHL his first season (and his 3rd and 4th). 100+ AHL games.
Anderson played 50+ AHL games
Spence has played 100+ AHL games

I am saying that the optimal way to develop Faber was the way Minnesota did, to have him play in college and then jump to the NHL without any AHL time. And not just for Faber, but for most high end players.

But that is not the way the Kings operate, do you think Faber is the same player today if he leaves college, signs with the Kings and spends a year in Ontario instead of at the University of Minnesota? I don't.

 

[chris kontos]

Herby's statement "this is not a meritocracy"
Speaks volumes about the team, the mgmt and the entire show. I think all teams and organizations trend to this somewhat. However in the kings org it is almost exclusively a popularity contest and way out of balance that way. Its a huge reason they are not championship quality

 

[BigKing]

Anderson played two seasons of NCAA and then had his AHL season. Faber played three NCAA seasons then jumped into the end of the regular season and playoffs, never touching AHL ice.

I think the preference would have been for Faber to go to Ontario from LAK Management (they had not cleared up their RHD logjam yet) but I also think they were dangling immediate NHL action to get him to sign. Remember that Spence got in three playoff games the first Edmonton series which was shortly after Faber declined to sign. Those games easily could have gone to Faber.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Bjornfot played in the AHL his first season (and his 3rd and 4th). 100+ AHL games.
Anderson played 50+ AHL games
Spence has played 100+ AHL games

I am saying that the optimal way to develop Faber was the way Minnesota did, to have him play in college and then jump to the NHL without any AHL time. And not just for Faber, but for most high end players.

But that is not the way the Kings operate, do you think Faber is the same player today if he leaves college, signs with the Kings and spends a year in Ontario instead of at the University of Minnesota? I don't.

I do, because that's on the player, tell me, did NJ ruin Nemec?

 

[Telos]

I don't think there is much to complain about with the fourth line. They are producing at a decent rate, are more often than not attacking than defending, it features our two best penalty killers on the #1 penalty kill in the NHL which is a blessing not having to shift more top 6'ers in the role, and frankly I wish more had Lizzo's kind of "jam".

As much as I want someone who can stay on their skates and be more physical in that role, you absolutely have to give credit where it is due and there is no one that deserves what they get more than Lizzo. He isn't perfect and makes mistakes like anyone, but he is always involved, always making things happen, and often doing everything right.

Even with Turcotte waiting behind him and me wanting the Kings to play their kids, Lizzo is one of the last I'd replace. One of the only ones that truly gives a damn. You just can't teach that kind of heart and he is honestly a special player that finds a way to come out on top even if he lands on his ass doing it.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Telos, it's just not Turcotte - word is Kings management want Helenius for the 4C.

 

[Schmooley]

Telos, it's just not Turcotte - word is Kings management want Helenius for the 4C.

They should let Helenius get some games in this year then so he knows what he has to work on in the offseason.
If they cant afford to bring Lizotte back theyll need a 4c that Todd trusts more than 6 minutes a night.

 

[tigermask48]

Hahahaha

Lost Toby to waivers to VEGAS

To not even play Clarke

4d chess baby

 

[Herby]

I do, because that's on the player, tell me, did NJ ruin Nemec?

I don't know, we will see. You always reference Nemec, and I have said in the past that it can be argued that Euro pros in the AHL makes more sense than college players. But both instances the Kings did it (Bjornfot & Kupari) the results were bad.

It's also important to note that NJ is not an organization with a one size fits all approach to AHL usage like the Kings are.

Hischier, J Hughes, L Hughes and Mercer all played zero AHL games and were in the NHL as teenagers. None of those guys would have been given the same development path had they been drafted by the Kings.

Hischier would have been returned to the Q for at least his age 18 season, probably age 19 season and would have had to probably pay his dues in Ontario for at least part of his age 20 season.

Jack Hughes would have spent his age 18 season in Ontario. He was good, but remember, "Only McDavid types can jump right into the NHL", that is straight from the mouth of the development team.

They would have tried to sign L Hughes after his freshman season and put him in Ontario last year, if they signed Turcotte after his freshman year at Wisconsin, they certainly would have signed Luke after the freshman season he had. Where as Tom Fitzgerald correctly identified that Luke needed another season in Ann Arbor, a decision that was very clearly the right one.

You say it's all on the players for development, I couldn't disagree more, teams have a lot of control over players and where they choose to send them can have a big effect on how they develop. If you don't believe me, just find the numerous interviews with college players about how important staying in school until they were NHL ready was.

 

[Johnny Utah]

They should let Helenius get some games in this year then so he knows what he has to work on in the offseason.
If they cant afford to bring Lizotte back theyll need a 4c that Todd trusts more than 6 minutes a night.

Helenius is my new fav potential King after my encounter with him in Vegas. Really nice kid. Hoping he makes it.

 

[AbsentMojo]

I don't know, we will see. You always reference Nemec, and I have said in the past that it can be argued that Euro pros in the AHL makes more sense than college players. But both instances the Kings did it (Bjornfot & Kupari) the results were bad.

It's also important to note that NJ is not an organization with a one size fits all approach to AHL usage like the Kings are.

Hischier, J Hughes, L Hughes and Mercer all played zero AHL games and were in the NHL as teenagers. None of those guys would have been given the same development path had they been drafted by the Kings.

Hischier would have been returned to the Q for at least his age 18 season, probably age 19 season and would have had to probably pay his dues in Ontario for at least part of his age 20 season.

Jack Hughes would have spent his age 18 season in Ontario. He was good, but remember, "Only McDavid types can jump right into the NHL", that is straight from the mouth of the development team.

They would have tried to sign L Hughes after his freshman season and put him in Ontario last year, if they signed Turcotte after his freshman year at Wisconsin, they certainly would have signed Luke after the freshman season he had. Where as Tom Fitzgerald correctly identified that Luke needed another season in Ann Arbor, a decision that was very clearly the right one.

You say it's all on the players for development, I couldn't disagree more, teams have a lot of control over players and where they choose to send them can have a big effect on how they develop. If you don't believe me, just find the numerous interviews with college players about how important staying in school until they were NHL ready was.

You continually highlight this issue and I think you are 100% right about it. This org does seem to have a love affair with the AHL for development which idoesnt seem to be common across the league. I found only a couple of instances where a top 10 pick was in the A last year aside from Clarke's stint - Eklund of SJ and I forgot the other. Ive moved onto another question - why the hell do they do this? One of my theories is it stems from DL's ideology. Remember how he slammed JMFJ and threw Red Berrenson under the bus for not teaching fundamentals at UM (im sure you do based on your avatar). Also DL went through the trouble of aligning systems and terminology with Manchester and LA and was proud of that. Another contributing factor is the damn Koala's heritage. He came out of the crock pot / slow cooker of the 1990s Red Wing's org where guys didnt get a sniff til 23 or 24.. and wasnt Yanetti on record re the slow cooking of prospects being of benefit (or maybe it was Blake himself). All these things to me are at the core of their approach.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm not sure I can hate on the theory--that having your prospects nearby and playing the same system as the big club makes sure the parts are interchangeable. I dig it. And hell, the Kings were at the forefront of pushing for the AHL west division. So I love all that.

But the execution feels a little overforced, like everyone needs to go there and you don't trust anyone else's development? and the results so far and not reflecting well on it.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I don’t care what their approach is or how they justify it. It’s not translating to results, and they’re trading away just as many bluechip pieces as they are graduating to their own club.

Pro sports are a results driven business and Blake has zero results.

 

[bland]

I don’t care what their approach is or how they justify it. It’s not translating to results, and they’re trading away just as many bluechip pieces as they are graduating to their own club.

Pro sports are a results driven business and Blake has zero results.

Took a quick glance. The longest the Kings had gone between series wins prior to Lombardi's last year and Blake's tenure was six seasons.

They are on year 9 in their current run.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Took a quick glance. The longest the Kings had gone between series wins prior to Lombardi's last year and Blake's tenure was six seasons.

They are on year 9 in their current run.

That’s actually wild.

Do Beckerman and co. actually not give a f***? Is there any pressure at all on Blake and Luc to put together an actual contender? Or is it really just “get us a couple games of playoff revenue and we’re good.”

 

[bland]

Bjornfot played in the AHL his first season (and his 3rd and 4th). 100+ AHL games.
Anderson played 50+ AHL games
Spence has played 100+ AHL games

I am saying that the optimal way to develop Faber was the way Minnesota did, to have him play in college and then jump to the NHL without any AHL time. And not just for Faber, but for most high end players.

But that is not the way the Kings operate, do you think Faber is the same player today if he leaves college, signs with the Kings and spends a year in Ontario instead of at the University of Minnesota? I don't.

I think it is highly unlikely that Faber ever would have played in Ontario. His ability and intelligence was on display immediately - he is a special player, and while so many of us have been furious with the way this team has handled its developmental program, they have not had a "special" player on their hands who has come in ready to go right away after having played multiple years in another league.

 

[bland]

That’s actually wild.

Do Beckerman and co. actually not give a f***? Is there any pressure at all on Blake and Luc to put together an actual contender? Or is it really just “get us a couple games of playoff revenue and we’re good.”

Honestly, nobody seems to care enough to beat that drum. There is no media to demand answers, they own the building so any short falls can be mitigated, and they will trot out some Cup heroes from time to time in the relatively near future to rake in some cash.

It would probably take a failing grand enough to create doubt on a bigger scale than just fans airing their grievances online.

 

[kilowatt]

View attachment 796610

Hey can you delete this because it makes me super sad

 

[AbsentMojo]

The rarified air of the King's futility