Griffin76
Registered User
Last year he was paired with Bogosian. That's what I'm talking about. Jackets series was 2 seasons ago.
Rumor: Kyper: Dermott and Holl available for a trade
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Last year he was paired with Bogosian. That's what I'm talking about. Jackets series was 2 seasons ago.
DraftSchmaft
Registered User
- Jul 29, 2021
- 2,350
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Oh no, what I'm saying is, this isn't a learning year for us, the goal is the cup so given what we've seen already I don't think they're going to let Dermott run with the no.4. Jackets series was a glimpse of how that might go. I believe they want a true no.4 for this playoff run.
Trust me I get the confusion regarding protecting Holl. I really do. I was not a fan of leaving McCann exposed either. It really made zero sense to me at the time, and it makes less sense now. I completely agree. I thought it was terrible asset management. Solely because I felt from what I had seen from Liljegren on the Marlies that he was more than ready to take that next step. We knew we were losing Hyman on LW, and had a very capable replacement in McCann. For whatever reason we felt like the 4F + 4D was better protection scheme and asset management. I just couldn't have disagreed more.
That said, one of the things people on here love to refer to Dubas as is blindly loyal. How he will never trade the core 4 because those are "his guys". Well Holl was one of his guys. One of his guys he protected 4 months ago. He has never been afraid to admit defeat on what he believed to be true in the past. He let Barrie walk, knowing the outrage that would come with it and the narrative of giving Kadri away for nothing. But ultimately that was the right call. Say what you will about KD, but the man knows when to admit defeat, and move on
Predict, do, and verify. That's the game in any business. KD predicted Holl would be the player he was last year, He protected him, it doesn't seem to be proving true. KD is looking at the results and deciding to move in a different direction. He's not trying to cover up his tracks by trying to jam jello into a piggy bank.
KD has belief in the core 4 at this moment. He may be proven wrong on that belief in the not too distant future. But don't kid yourselves, I really don't think KD would be unwilling to move these players if an opportunity presented itself to better our team. He has shown he is not afraid to cut bait on things that aren't working. He's just not willing to cut bait on 4 of the most talented players to ever play for the franchise....at this moment
But if you still believe trading Marner would have been the right call, fair enough. I will not dispute the logic and reason to think change was necessary. But would you have been happy with a similar haul Buffalo got for Eichel? because that's clearly the market.
sometimes the best moves you make are the ones you don't make.
All n all I am happy to see they are exploring a trade for Holl. Clearly Liljegren is ready for a permanent role.
That said, one of the things people on here love to refer to Dubas as is blindly loyal. How he will never trade the core 4 because those are "his guys". Well Holl was one of his guys. One of his guys he protected 4 months ago. He has never been afraid to admit defeat on what he believed to be true in the past. He let Barrie walk, knowing the outrage that would come with it and the narrative of giving Kadri away for nothing. But ultimately that was the right call. Say what you will about KD, but the man knows when to admit defeat, and move on
Predict, do, and verify. That's the game in any business. KD predicted Holl would be the player he was last year, He protected him, it doesn't seem to be proving true. KD is looking at the results and deciding to move in a different direction. He's not trying to cover up his tracks by trying to jam jello into a piggy bank.
KD has belief in the core 4 at this moment. He may be proven wrong on that belief in the not too distant future. But don't kid yourselves, I really don't think KD would be unwilling to move these players if an opportunity presented itself to better our team. He has shown he is not afraid to cut bait on things that aren't working. He's just not willing to cut bait on 4 of the most talented players to ever play for the franchise....at this moment
But if you still believe trading Marner would have been the right call, fair enough. I will not dispute the logic and reason to think change was necessary. But would you have been happy with a similar haul Buffalo got for Eichel? because that's clearly the market.
sometimes the best moves you make are the ones you don't make.
All n all I am happy to see they are exploring a trade for Holl. Clearly Liljegren is ready for a permanent role.
Griffin76
Registered User
Fair enough. But I look at last year as the learning year. This year is the year he becomes a reliable top 4 or gets pushed down by Liljegren. Either way it's good for the Leafs.
Fogelhund
Registered User
- Sep 15, 2007
- 24,409
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If they want to keep Liljegren on the roster, then they need to trade someone to make room.
DraftSchmaft
Registered User
- Jul 29, 2021
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Confused why you think Eichel is a representation of the market? I can't imagine a world where teams don't sell the farm for a injury-free Eichel. He's a franchise player. His issues are why teams aren't willing to move things around and part with massive assets.
If an injury free, no strings attached Eichel does not get a kings ransom then this league is on a path of self destruction. But I fully believe we'd have seen massive offers for this guy under better circumstances. Teams make cap room for much less.
sorry sorry dermott thread. truce.
FiveHoleo
Registered User
- Jul 31, 2021
- 512
- 782
Let's see, trading away two NHL defencemen who are on cheap deals...... sure, it sounds a lot like something Dubas would do given our cap mess. Let the Mac Hollowell era in Toronto begin I guess. What is Dubas going to do with that extra salary he'll free up, give some more to Marner perhaps? Oh wait, you can't do that. But you know he wants to.
crump
~ ~ (ړײ) ~ ~
SeaOfBlue
The Passion That Unites Us All
- Aug 1, 2013
- 35,591
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Some of the defensemen trades since the start of this past offseason:
LD Brendan Dillon (3.9 x 3) for 2 2nd's.
LD/RD Nikita Zadorov (RFA; signed 1 x 3.75 and now pending UFA) for a 3rd.
LD Kurtis MacDermid (1 x 0.875) for a 4th.
LD Jake Bean (RFA; signed 3 x 2.33) for a 2nd.
LD Ryan Graves (2 x 3.167) for a 2nd + Maltsev (B prospect)
Excluded cap dump trades and trades like Ristolainen, Ellis, and Jones for obvious reasons.
I think what we have all learned here is there is absolutely no way the Leafs sell either for less than a 3rd, and quite frankly, I can see the Leafs asking for a Graves/Dillon return (at least for Holl).
Zonk
Registered User
- Jul 2, 2012
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It is interesting that some posters think that the Leafs plan to trade both Holl and Dermott.
My son-in-law had two cars. He advertised both, but only sold the one that brought the best offer. It would have been stupid to sell both because he would either be walking or taking the bus.
It should not be that hard a concept to figure out.
My son-in-law had two cars. He advertised both, but only sold the one that brought the best offer. It would have been stupid to sell both because he would either be walking or taking the bus.
It should not be that hard a concept to figure out.
The alternatives are? What happens with 1 more injury?
Since when do we have a deep dman list. Heck, we don't even have Marincin to kick around.
What kind of a gm signs Holl then less than 2 weeks in wants to get rid of him?
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
The guys got 8 points in 12 playoff games played with the Leafs. Let's not pretend he's a scrub, that's comfortably a top six forward level post season production
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
I'd suspect there's more to the story than just dumping a guy for a pick. The team has more use for a solid #7 D than it does a pick
I could see a scenario where they're paired with a forward with an intention to get an Forward upgrade.
I could see a scenario where they're paired with a forward with an intention to get an Forward upgrade.
Buds17
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2015
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Trading both is neither certainty nor far-fetched to me. Management might not have vastly differing views between Holl and Dermott if both are theoretically available. Holl is top four in minutes but has been a healthy scratch for a few games. It's really just a matter of promoting or acquiring a #6/bottom pairing d-man for Dubas if Keefe believes that either of Sandin or Liljegren can soon replace that going forward.
He played on the Erie Otters with McDavid and was supposed to be a 1st round pick but slipped to 2nd and was a steal there as he was the top teams D-man. At the NHL level he's been very average ish.
Carolina took Aho 1 spot after, imagine that forward depth.
Zonk
Registered User
- Jul 2, 2012
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If you think that Holl was signed less than two weeks ago, then you are clearly not a Leafs fan. What are you doing on this board. troll?
