Kyle Dubas will not be back as GM

[SmoggyTwinkles]

Giggles for GM…

Who knows, he might be better than Dubas (not a high bar).

If the giggles part was because of this:


Well played!

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Extremely dumb and bad logic. Not all 1st round picks are equal in value. Imagine if you had the 1st overall pick and traded down to the 32nd overall for a couple of 2nd round picks, but you say, at least we didn't lose a 1st round pick. An argument no rational person would make.

The exact draft slot is irrelevant when trying to compare one draft to another because every draft has what is called Tiers. Most drafts after the first 20 picks open up, and you see guys who may have been rated in the 2nd or 3rd round taken late in the 1st round, and you see 1st round rated talent fall to the 2nd round. The value of trading down was marginal at best in 2022 considering they took a guy at 38 who they were happy to take at 25 anyways. When you factor in that most people thought the Leafs would have had to trade a 1st round pick outright to unload Mrazek vs dropping only 13 slots, I think it's a waste of time to play revisionist history and the what if game, and hindsight 20/20. I think the trading down worked out fine in the end.

There's no tiers that we as fans know of. Chicago probably values trading up significantly differently than the leafs. Whose to say they didn't value it as much as mid or high second?

 

[Ace]

You don't think dubas is smart enough to have those conversations with pens management / ownership?

I’m gonna go ahead and stop you right there.

We just watched this man talk himself out of a job in his exit interview and he handles contract negotiations like compromise means giving away more. Everything good he had he inherited and he immediately overpaid to take away their value.

That exit interview isn’t even the dumbest move he made in public that month. That was boy genius mouthing back to fans, wasn’t it? Celebrating winning a series his team was outplayed in like he should have a Mission Accomplished banner behind him?

I know he wears glasses so it can be confusing. But…no. I don’t think he’s smart enough.

 

[AcerComputer]

There's no tiers that we as fans know of. Chicago probably values trading up significantly differently than the leafs. Whose to say they didn't value it as much as mid or high second?

There are plenty of draft rankings sites that give you a consensus on where players are ranked and what those tiers look like. I think the point is not all 1st round picks are the same, dropping 13 spots is not the same as giving up a 1st round pick outright.

 

[Golden_Jet]

There are plenty of draft rankings sites that give you a consensus on where players are ranked and what those tiers look like. I think the point is not all 1st round picks are the same, dropping 13 spots is not the same as giving up a 1st round pick outright.

It’s the same as trading a first round pick for a second round pick.

 

[WillTheThrill]

Is Dubas the most polarizing GM in league history?

 

[Gil Gunderson]

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

So either he was serious about taking a year off or he's holding out hope for the Ottawa job.

 

[FerrisRox]

Extremely dumb and bad logic. Not all 1st round picks are equal in value. Imagine if you had the 1st overall pick and traded down to the 32nd overall for a couple of 2nd round picks, but you say, at least we didn't lose a 1st round pick. An argument no rational person would make.

The exact draft slot is irrelevant when trying to compare one draft to another because every draft has what is called Tiers. Most drafts after the first 20 picks open up, and you see guys who may have been rated in the 2nd or 3rd round taken late in the 1st round, and you see 1st round rated talent fall to the 2nd round. The value of trading down was marginal at best in 2022 considering they took a guy at 38 who they were happy to take at 25 anyways. When you factor in that most people thought the Leafs would have had to trade a 1st round pick outright to unload Mrazek vs dropping only 13 slots, I think it's a waste of time to play revisionist history and the what if game, and hindsight 20/20. I think the trading down worked out fine in the end.

What a ridiculous and absurd response this is.

The Maple Leafs traded their 1st round for a 2nd rounder. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. It's frankly jaw-dropping that you think it's "extremely dumb and bad logic" to claim that trading away a 1st round pick and receiving a 2nd round pic equals losing a 1st round pick. It's not "bad logic" its a simple statement of fact.

Claiming, as the person I responded to did, that the Leafs didn't trade away their first round because they received a 2nd rounder that was close in range, doesn't some how make it so that the Leafs didn't trade away their first rounder.

They had a 1st round pick, they traded away, and they didn't receive a first round pick in the trade.

Why anyone would pretend that the Leafs didn't trade away their first round pick in that transaction is beyond me.

What are you even trying to argue here? You say "the exact draft slot is irrelevant."

What? The conversation is about whether or not the Maple Leafs traded away their first round pick in Petr Mrazek trade. I can't believe this is a debate, because it's a statement of fact. I assure you that "the draft slot" is very relevant when the conversation is about 1st round picks. I'll give you a clue, if the draft pick is higher than 32, it's not a first round pick. That's not my opinion, it's a simple statement of fact.

I can't fathom why you would try to argue this. It's insane.

 

[Hockeysawks]

So either he was serious about taking a year off or he's holding out hope for the Ottawa job.

Or he was offered a lower job
Or he is ressponsible for the leaks and actually failed his interview

 

[AvroArrow]

Or he was offered a lower job
Or he is ressponsible for the leaks and actually failed his interview

Pittsburgh may have lowered their offer once Toronto let him go, who knows though

 

[Hockeysawks]

Pittsburgh may have lowered their offer once Toronto let him go, who knows though

.That would be full out tampering, there would have been no offer until after they spoke.
And they would have to interview him before the offer was made.
Someone leaked he was returning to the leafs,
Someone leaked Monday was the decision day but that didn’t happen.
Seems like he and his agent are creating a demand for him that isn’t there

 

[AvroArrow]

 

[Folignos Helmet]

Reading between the lines of what Friedman was saying on his most recent pod. Sounds like Dubas to the Oil in some capacity and taking over from Holland as he retires into the sun.

 

[MXD]

View attachment 714192

... Meanwhile, you're defending Shanahan.

 

[AvroArrow]

... Meanwhile, you're defending Shanahan.

No, I'm defending his decision to can Dubas after he pulled that BS stunt in the media. If MLSE fires Shanny tomorrow, I'm alright with it and understand where it's coming from. I'm not gonna pretend like he's some perfect president and that we are doomed because we lost him, he has lost just as much as Dubas. Difference is he didn't walk up to his superiors and demand a raise and more power after using his wife/kids and end season presser as leverage.

 

[Oleksiak]

Reading between the lines of what Friedman was saying on his most recent pod. Sounds like Dubas to the Oil in some capacity and taking over from Holland as he retires into the sun.

Great idea. Fix a team with terrible defence, depth, and goaltending by hiring an unqualified analytics dweeb who built a team with exactly those issues.

 

[Hockeysawks]

Great idea. Fix a team with terrible defence, depth, and goaltending by hiring an unqualified analytics dweeb who built a team with exactly those issues.

Is he tho? The only time I ever heard him use analytics was for saying Ceci would be good.

 

[Oleksiak]

Is he tho? The only time I ever heard him use analytics was for saying Ceci would be good.

Well he sure as hell wasn't hired for his hockey knowledge.

 

[sansabri]

is Sutter gonna be the next coach

 

[LyleFubas]

Biggest mistake Toronto ever made. When Dubas is killing it in Pittsburgh Shanahan and MLSE will know what's up.

 

[nturn06]

Reading between the lines of what Friedman was saying on his most recent pod. Sounds like Dubas to the Oil in some capacity and taking over from Holland as he retires into the sun.

Yikes, please no.

Well he sure as hell wasn't hired for his hockey knowledge.

Actually, I am not really sure why he was hired for. Looking back he seemed that he was hired for his vision of building a very mellow high skill team.

 

[AcerComputer]

What a ridiculous and absurd response this is.

The Maple Leafs traded their 1st round for a 2nd rounder. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. It's frankly jaw-dropping that you think it's "extremely dumb and bad logic" to claim that trading away a 1st round pick and receiving a 2nd round pic equals losing a 1st round pick. It's not "bad logic" its a simple statement of fact.

Claiming, as the person I responded to did, that the Leafs didn't trade away their first round because they received a 2nd rounder that was close in range, doesn't some how make it so that the Leafs didn't trade away their first rounder.

They had a 1st round pick, they traded away, and they didn't receive a first round pick in the trade.

Why anyone would pretend that the Leafs didn't trade away their first round pick in that transaction is beyond me.

What are you even trying to argue here? You say "the exact draft slot is irrelevant."

What? The conversation is about whether or not the Maple Leafs traded away their first round pick in Petr Mrazek trade. I can't believe this is a debate, because it's a statement of fact. I assure you that "the draft slot" is very relevant when the conversation is about 1st round picks. I'll give you a clue, if the draft pick is higher than 32, it's not a first round pick. That's not my opinion, it's a simple statement of fact.

I can't fathom why you would try to argue this. It's insane.

If the Leafs traded away the 32nd pick a 1st round pick for the 33rd pick a 2nd round pick? You wouldn't make the same arguement.

Draft picks don't have value because they are a 1st round pick, they have value based of the strength of the draft class and what tier your pick is in. That was the point that you chose to miss.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

There are plenty of draft rankings sites that give you a consensus on where players are ranked and what those tiers look like. I think the point is not all 1st round picks are the same, dropping 13 spots is not the same as giving up a 1st round pick outright.

So Dubas scouts using draft ranking sites? Theres essentially no scouting consensus info.

I agree that giving up 13 spots isn't the same as giving up a 1st round pick outright. Its like giving up a 1st round pick for a 2nd round pick. Chicago isn't wasting cap space just to pick a similar tier prospect.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

If the Leafs traded away the 32nd pick a 1st round pick for the 33rd pick a 2nd round pick? You wouldn't make the same arguement.

Draft picks don't have value because they are a 1st round pick, they have value based of the strength of the draft class and what tier your pick is in. That was the point that you chose to miss.

32nd pick allows you to pick 64th overall in another year if you don't sign the player.