Tribute Kyle Dubas discussion

[Tufted Titmouse]

But when it will start being his responsibility? Or is it never?

It always has been. In the past, I think he's built some very flawed teams. That's on him. This year, I think he's built a good team, and poor performance will be on the players. Then it will be up to Dubas to make the hard decision of changing the core of the group.

You can argue that should have happened last year, but I think this year it would make more sense given the status of some contracts.

I am most happy with how Dubas has taken the worst D core in the NHL and turned it into a serviceable group with some term. Not sold on Mo's contract, but I am really happy with the other 5-6 guys. Locking up Samsanov and Woll would also give us some stability defensively.

 

[WTFMAN99]

It always has been. In the past, I think he's built some very flawed teams. That's on him. This year, I think he's built a good team, and poor performance will be on the players. Then it will be up to Dubas to make the hard decision of changing the core of the group.

You can argue that should have happened last year, but I think this year it would make more sense given the status of some contracts.

I am most happy with how Dubas has taken the worst D core in the NHL and turned it into a serviceable group with some term. Not sold on Mo's contract, but I am really happy with the other 5-6 guys. Locking up Samsanov and Woll would also give us some stability defensively.

Maybe Dubas doesn't like the Rielly deal either and could choose him as a guy to jettison if the team falters? Ekholm was moved yr 1 into a 4 year deal...he didn't have any trade protection but it would mean Rielly could have a bit more say in where he could move.

Let's just hope they win a cup and this stuff isn't a conversation a month from now.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Maybe Dubas doesn't like the Rielly deal either and could choose him as a guy to jettison if the team falters? Ekholm was moved yr 1 into a 4 year deal...he didn't have any trade protection but it would mean Rielly could have a bit more say in where he could move.

Let's just hope they win a cup and this stuff isn't a conversation a month from now.

This is right attitude.

Blows my mind people are already dooming Dubas at this time of year. This is legitimately the best time of year to be a hockey fan of a good team.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Mailbag: Sabres, Senators as contenders; Dubas' future with Maple Leafs | NHL.com

NHL.com's Dan Rosen answers weekly questions

www.nhl.com

Kyle Dubas has shoved all his chips into the pot for this playoff run. He sacrificed picks and prospects for a chance to win the Stanley Cup. What will happen if this fails? Will Auston Matthews move on? Will Dubas stay? What gives? Toronto has been through enough. -- @theashcity

Matthews is signed through next season. His future will be a topic, but it will come after a decision is made on Dubas, the Toronto Maple Leafs general manager, who went into this season knowing it could be make a break for him. It's well known that he's in the last year of his contract, that he doesn't have an extension in place, or at least on the books as of yet. It's certainly reasonable from 30,000 feet to think Toronto's success or failure in the playoffs will determine Dubas' fate as the team's general manager. But it's not that simple.

The Maple Leafs as we know them right now, are a good team with Dubas' impact are all over it. He has been with the team for the development, drafting, signing or trading for every player on the team, either as an assistant GM from 2014-18 or as the GM since May 11, 2018. Toronto is fifth in points percentage (.650), third in goals per game (3.49) and 19th in goals against per game (2.94) with Dubas as their general manager. They have played in the postseason every year with Dubas as their GM. The fact is that they have been one of the best teams in the NHL under Dubas' watch; it just hasn't translated into playoff success. That's as much on the coaches and players, particularly the core of Auston Matthews, Mitchell Marner, William Nylander, John Tavares and Morgan Rielly, and coaches as it is on Dubas. Everyone takes a share of the blame for Toronto's inability to get out of the first round. And, fairly or not, the playoffs are where people in this business are most critically judged.

Dubas recognized that, and together with his management team and scouts, did some surgery on the Maple Leafs in advance of the trade deadline this season to put them in the best position for playoff success. There was some debate about if the Maple Leafs did too much, but judging from their playoff failures of the past there was an understanding as to why they made six additions; forwards Ryan O'Reilly, Noel Acciari and Sam Lafferty, and defensemen Erik Gustafsson, Jake McCabe and Luke Schenn. Each one of those additions was met with optimism, with the suggestion that Toronto should be more playoff ready and harder to play against. So if the Maple Leafs lose to the Tampa Bay Lightning in the Eastern Conference First Round, are we to then just disregard that and pin the blame on Dubas? That seems unreasonable. It could also be reality because optics matter, particularly in Toronto, and it might be challenging for ownership to run it back with zero changes at the highest levels of management if the Maple Leafs falter again. I don't know where this goes with Dubas, but I know it's in the hands of the coaches and players to help give Dubas a clearer picture of his future.

 

[Ciao]

Dubas has done a pretty good job. He'll be back next year, if he wants to be here. End of story.

 

[29Potvin]

Dubas has done a pretty good job. He'll be back next year, if he wants to be here. End of story.

Some fans seem to forget that he also has the option to walk. Maybe he test what's out there.
Plot Twist- Leafs make the cup finals but lose, KD walks after the Leafs offer him a long-term extension and SK if fired by the incoming Leafs GM.
Ottawa now owned by the Reynolds group(Ryan likes Kyle's glasses) hire Kyle and he fires Smith and brings in his boy SK. Sens Leafs meeting in the first round and Sens upset the Leafs in 7. Willy and AM34 walking into sweetheart deals with the Sens that off-season and MM the following and win back to back Stanley Cups

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

It has never, and will never matter what fans think when it comes to who the Leafs hire or fire.

Fans, real fans, are precious and hard to come by.

Just a few can change everything.

If what you are saying is correct, then that's where the problems all start. It's the fans that have allowed this franchise to become what it has today. The laughing stock of the entire NHL.

Because that's exactly what they are.

The majority of fans are unsatisfied with the performance of the GM and somehow that's ok. Ownership has no respect for the fans. And for some reason the fans are ok with that too.

The complacency in this fan base is mindnumbing.

Do I sound angry?
Do I sound frustrated?
Maybe even a little pissed off?

If I sound extremist it's only because the situation IS extreme.

This summer the team faces the very real possibility of replacing the coach, GM, and POHO. Next summer may witness the exodus of Matthews and/or Nylander. The entirety of "we can and we will" has dissolved into the hope they win a single playoffs series before the Matthews contract expires.

If the Leafs go out early in the playoffs again the best thing that could happen for this organization is vocal dissent in the arena. The fans booing as loud as possible. Get the message across that we won't support this team's failures anymore.

If ML$E had any respect for the fans at all they would listen.

 

[Griffin76]

Right thread for this?

 

[Racer88]

Right thread for this?

View attachment 688250

The list of failures is a long one

 

[Racer88]

Dubas has done a pretty good job. He'll be back next year, if he wants to be here. End of story.

Only if they have major playoff success and yes he wants this job with every fibre of his being

 

[Ciao]

Fans, real fans, are precious and hard to come by.

Just a few can change everything.

If what you are saying is correct, then that's where the problems all start. It's the fans that have allowed this franchise to become what it has today. The laughing stock of the entire NHL.

Because that's exactly what they are.

The majority of fans are unsatisfied with the performance of the GM and somehow that's ok. Ownership has no respect for the fans. And for some reason the fans are ok with that too.

The complacency in this fan base is mindnumbing.

Do I sound angry?
Do I sound frustrated?
Maybe even a little pissed off?

If I sound extremist it's only because the situation IS extreme.

This summer the team faces the very real possibility of replacing the coach, GM, and POHO. Next summer may witness the exodus of Matthews and/or Nylander. The entirety of "we can and we will" has dissolved into the hope they win a single playoffs series before the Matthews contract expires.

If the Leafs go out early in the playoffs again the best thing that could happen for this organization is vocal dissent in the arena. The fans booing as loud as possible. Get the message across that we won't support this team's failures anymore.

If ML$E had any respect for the fans at all they would listen.

The World is full of people who think they're really important when, in fact, they aren't.

MLSE cares about fans only to the extent they affect profits.

You or i, Bud, everyone else on this board and the entire seasom-ticket holding base of the Toronto Maple Leafs really don't matter a gosh darn. If we were gone, the Leafs would still sell stuff and continue to be very profitable in this market.

MLSE will do what they think is in the best interests of the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's not a joint or delegated decision.

 

[DarkKnight]

Dubas has finally figured out how to build a team, too bad it’s taken years for him to learn on the job, ditto for his green coach. Anyways, it’s all forgotten with one run now, and this team is the best we’ve seen.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

The World is full of people who think they're really important when, in fact, they aren't.

MLSE cares about fans only to the extent they affect profits.

You or i, Bud, everyone else on this board and the entire seasom-ticket holding base of the Toronto Maple Leafs really don't matter a gosh darn. If we were gone, the Leafs would still sell stuff and continue to be very profitable in this market.

MLSE will do what they think is in the best interests of the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's not a joint or delegated decision.

That's a defeatist attitude if I ever saw one.

Roll over and play dead just like the team itself.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy it for one second. I think ML$E takes the fans attitude a lot more serious than you would believe. If you think for one second they don't come on forums and message boards and scour the blogs for insight on the fans attitude you are sorely mistaken.

The arrogance of this franchise is astonishing

But EVERY organization still takes the pulse of the hand that feeds it.

 

[ACC1224]

The World is full of people who think they're really important when, in fact, they aren't.

MLSE cares about fans only to the extent they affect profits.

You or i, Bud, everyone else on this board and the entire seasom-ticket holding base of the Toronto Maple Leafs really don't matter a gosh darn. If we were gone, the Leafs would still sell stuff and continue to be very profitable in this market.

MLSE will do what they think is in the best interests of the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's not a joint or delegated decision.

They shouldn't listen to the fans who for the most part really have no clue as to what is going on.

 

[GQS]

The majority of fans are unsatisfied with the performance of the GM and somehow that's ok. Ownership has no respect for the fans. And for some reason the fans are ok with that too.

Seriously I don't believe many if not the majority of Leafs fans follow the team very closely the way that Leafs fans on HFboards or r/leafs or a few other places do. Most fans might react to a trade in general terms, but few would know the Leafs team and every move that Dubas makes inside and out and even fewer follow the Marlies and the development of Leafs prospects.

This summer the team faces the very real possibility of replacing the coach, GM, and POHO. Next summer may witness the exodus of Matthews and/or Nylander. The entirety of "we can and we will" has dissolved into the hope they win a single playoffs series before the Matthews contract expires.

If the Leafs go out early in the playoffs again the best thing that could happen for this organization is vocal dissent in the arena. The fans booing as loud as possible. Get the message across that we won't support this team's failures anymore.

If the Leafs go out against the Lightning again this playoffs series, the only management move I would make is to replace Keefe. Dubas has done more than enough for me to want him to be re-signed here and stay the GM of the Leafs for at least the next few years. This year more than any other he's gone out and went 'all in' without completely giving away our future in an effort to address every real or perceived weakness in this team and if the Leafs can't get it done on the ice, I don't see how you can hang it on Dubas this time around.

I've agreed and liked most of the moves he's made as GM and I hope he sticks around for longer to complete what he started even if it hasn't been as successful and as quick as we had hoped.

 

[ToneDog]

Seriously I don't believe many if not the majority of Leafs fans follow the team very closely the way that Leafs fans on HFboards or r/leafs or a few other places do. Most fans might react to a trade in general terms, but few would know the Leafs team and every move that Dubas makes inside and out and even fewer follow the Marlies and the development of Leafs prospects.



If the Leafs go out against the Lightning again this playoffs series, the only management move I would make is to replace Keefe. Dubas has done more than enough for me to want him to be re-signed here and stay the GM of the Leafs for at least the next few years. This year more than any other he's gone out and went 'all in' without completely giving away our future in an effort to address every real or perceived weakness in this team and if the Leafs can't get it done on the ice, I don't see how you can hang it on Dubas this time around.

I've agreed and liked most of the moves he's made as GM and I hope he sticks around for longer to complete what he started even if it hasn't been as successful and as quick as we had hoped.

Dubas won't survive another 1st round exit IMO. No idea what the minimum they need to do for Dubas to get an extension, but I am guessing Shanny played a role in the TDL moves.

Who knows. perhaps if they are not happy with the playoffs results, they may want a different set of eyes going forward. The saga continues.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Mailbag: Sabres, Senators as contenders; Dubas' future with Maple Leafs | NHL.com

NHL.com's Dan Rosen answers weekly questions

www.nhl.com

Kyle Dubas has shoved all his chips into the pot for this playoff run. He sacrificed picks and prospects for a chance to win the Stanley Cup. What will happen if this fails? Will Auston Matthews move on? Will Dubas stay? What gives? Toronto has been through enough. -- @theashcity

Matthews is signed through next season. His future will be a topic, but it will come after a decision is made on Dubas, the Toronto Maple Leafs general manager, who went into this season knowing it could be make a break for him. It's well known that he's in the last year of his contract, that he doesn't have an extension in place, or at least on the books as of yet. It's certainly reasonable from 30,000 feet to think Toronto's success or failure in the playoffs will determine Dubas' fate as the team's general manager. But it's not that simple.

The Maple Leafs as we know them right now, are a good team with Dubas' impact are all over it. He has been with the team for the development, drafting, signing or trading for every player on the team, either as an assistant GM from 2014-18 or as the GM since May 11, 2018. Toronto is fifth in points percentage (.650), third in goals per game (3.49) and 19th in goals against per game (2.94) with Dubas as their general manager. They have played in the postseason every year with Dubas as their GM. The fact is that they have been one of the best teams in the NHL under Dubas' watch; it just hasn't translated into playoff success. That's as much on the coaches and players, particularly the core of Auston Matthews, Mitchell Marner, William Nylander, John Tavares and Morgan Rielly, and coaches as it is on Dubas. Everyone takes a share of the blame for Toronto's inability to get out of the first round. And, fairly or not, the playoffs are where people in this business are most critically judged.

Dubas recognized that, and together with his management team and scouts, did some surgery on the Maple Leafs in advance of the trade deadline this season to put them in the best position for playoff success. There was some debate about if the Maple Leafs did too much, but judging from their playoff failures of the past there was an understanding as to why they made six additions; forwards Ryan O'Reilly, Noel Acciari and Sam Lafferty, and defensemen Erik Gustafsson, Jake McCabe and Luke Schenn. Each one of those additions was met with optimism, with the suggestion that Toronto should be more playoff ready and harder to play against. So if the Maple Leafs lose to the Tampa Bay Lightning in the Eastern Conference First Round, are we to then just disregard that and pin the blame on Dubas? That seems unreasonable. It could also be reality because optics matter, particularly in Toronto, and it might be challenging for ownership to run it back with zero changes at the highest levels of management if the Maple Leafs falter again. I don't know where this goes with Dubas, but I know it's in the hands of the coaches and players to help give Dubas a clearer picture of his future.

I still don't get the "all in" narrative? Apart from Sandin (which may have had other motivations), not much seemed "all in".

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Seriously I don't believe many if not the majority of Leafs fans follow the team very closely the way that Leafs fans on HFboards or r/leafs or a few other places do. Most fans might react to a trade in general terms, but few would know the Leafs team and every move that Dubas makes inside and out and even fewer follow the Marlies and the development of Leafs prospects.



If the Leafs go out against the Lightning again this playoffs series, the only management move I would make is to replace Keefe. Dubas has done more than enough for me to want him to be re-signed here and stay the GM of the Leafs for at least the next few years. This year more than any other he's gone out and went 'all in' without completely giving away our future in an effort to address every real or perceived weakness in this team and if the Leafs can't get it done on the ice, I don't see how you can hang it on Dubas this time around.

I've agreed and liked most of the moves he's made as GM and I hope he sticks around for longer to complete what he started even if it hasn't been as successful and as quick as we had hoped.

What has Dubas done to advance the team?

If they go out early again this year how can you say he's built a better team?

I'm sorry, but I don't think it is possible. There has literally been zero progress since he took over. Dubas hitched his wagon to Keefe the moment he hired him.

No other candidates were even interviewed.

So if Keefe goes, so does the GM that hired him.

The same logic applies going up the chain of command as well. Shanahan hired Dubas as GM without so much as a single interview being granted to any other candidate. Hunter resigned in protest.

So if Dubas goes, so does Shanahan.

A President gets three bullets: one for a coach, one for a GM, and one for himself.

Shanahan has already used the first two.

 

[ToneDog]

What has Dubas done to advance the team?

If they go out early again this year how can you say he's built a better team?

I'm sorry, but I don't think it is possible. There has literally been zero progress since he took over. Dubas hitched his wagon to Keefe the moment he hired him.

No other candidates were even interviewed.

So if Keefe goes, so does the GM that hired him.

The same logic applies going up the chain of command as well. Shanahan hired Dubas as GM without so much as a single interview being granted to any other candidate. Hunter resigned in protest.

So if Dubas goes, so does Shanahan.

A President gets three bullets: one for a coach, one for a GM, and one for himself.

Shanahan has already used the first two.

I agree but with Matthews and Nylander up for extensions, might be too many moving parts to get it all done by July 1st.

 

[DarkKnight]

I think back to all the years of arguing with people over his approach, hockey isn’t baseball, and now we sit here and the team is constructed almost exactly as many of us argued, skill AND the dreaded word grit. Rookie GM Dubas has come a long way…

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I think back to all the years of arguing with people over his approach, hockey isn’t baseball, and now we sit here and the team is constructed almost exactly as many of us argued, skill AND the dreaded word grit. Rookie GM Dubas has come a long way…

You don't think grit was added before?

 

[andora]

Right thread for this?

View attachment 688250

He had a NMC

It would be funnier with the kapanen claimed off waivers graphic on the left

 

[AllDay28]

Fans, real fans, are precious and hard to come by.

Just a few can change everything.

If what you are saying is correct, then that's where the problems all start. It's the fans that have allowed this franchise to become what it has today. The laughing stock of the entire NHL.

Because that's exactly what they are.

The majority of fans are unsatisfied with the performance of the GM and somehow that's ok. Ownership has no respect for the fans. And for some reason the fans are ok with that too.

The complacency in this fan base is mindnumbing.

Do I sound angry?
Do I sound frustrated?
Maybe even a little pissed off?

If I sound extremist it's only because the situation IS extreme.

This summer the team faces the very real possibility of replacing the coach, GM, and POHO. Next summer may witness the exodus of Matthews and/or Nylander. The entirety of "we can and we will" has dissolved into the hope they win a single playoffs series before the Matthews contract expires.

If the Leafs go out early in the playoffs again the best thing that could happen for this organization is vocal dissent in the arena. The fans booing as loud as possible. Get the message across that we won't support this team's failures anymore.

If ML$E had any respect for the fans at all they would listen.

Do Leafs fans want unlimited money? do they want unlimited resources? Then definitely don't listen to the stupid f***ing fans .. this fanbase is as fickle as every other one. A successful team ignores the fans.

 

[GQS]

Dubas won't survive another 1st round exit IMO. No idea what the minimum they need to do for Dubas to get an extension, but I am guessing Shanny played a role in the TDL moves.

Who knows. perhaps if they are not happy with the playoffs results, they may want a different set of eyes going forward. The saga continues.

Dubas might not survive another 1st round exit, but he should based on the moves he's made during his time as GM here to improve not just the Leafs, but also the Marlies and the team's prospect pool from being nearly bare with very little to look forward to compared to now where we have a decent crop of promising prospects that could make the team in the next few years.

 

[DarkKnight]

You don't think grit was added before?

It’s been a gradual move. Look we were universally known around the league as soft, it really isn’t an opinion. And I’d add our grit can play now too, nobody wants useless plugs just because they can hit. Dubas has learned through failure, hockey isn’t a spreadsheet. It’s a tool, not the toolbox.