Tribute Kyle Dubas discussion

[as Pure as Evil]

Let's hope it does.

its a great gesture with the perfect timing of the christmas season . with a young player feeling alone in a visiting city. . you cant write stuff up lol

 

[deprw]

An intelligent negotiator would use that "immovable" Marleau contract as leverage to make the RFAs take less. "We don't have the space, we want to be competitive, take market value or sit out the year."

An unintelligent negotiator would take that contract and trade it along with a very valuable 1st, just to be able to transfer that money straight into the pockets of RFAs as an overpayment. "Bend me over and take what you want, derp."

I don't know why I even comment on this. Derp.

But if he didn't trade Marleau back then, it would have been impossible later on. Marleau either played in Toronto or San Jose (he had full NMC) or needed to be bought out. So if we missed that window to trade Marleau (because he needed to be bought out, because San Jose had no interest for him with 6M contract) and your "use as leverage" -tactic would have blown on your face... You might have been unable to match offer sheet for Marner or would be behind eight ball in negotiations with other teams when you'd had to trade away Kapanen, Nylander or Johnson. Who would give any value back, when we would have been in cap hell, because of Marleau you can't get rid off.

Good leverage right there! "Please take this bad contract or I'm screwed, because I wanted to gamble that you'd take sweetheart deal rather than make me look like a f*** up."

 

[cesareborgia]

I don't know why I even comment on this. Derp.

But if he didn't trade Marleau back then, it would have been impossible later on. Marleau either played in Toronto or San Jose (he had full NMC) or needed to be bought out. So if we missed that window to trade Marleau (because he needed to be bought out, because San Jose had no interest for him with 6M contract) and your "use as leverage" -tactic would have blown on your face... You might have been unable to match offer sheet for Marner or would be behind eight ball in negotiations with other teams when you'd had to trade away Kapanen, Nylander or Johnson. Who would give any value back, when we would have been in cap hell, because of Marleau you can't get rid off.

Good leverage right there! "Please take this bad contract or I'm screwed, because I wanted to gamble that you'd take sweetheart deal rather than make me look like a **** up."

Always funny to see someone ramble on about something they have no clue about.

A 9.25m market value, "sweetheart" (derp) deal, or sit out the year. Given these two and only these two options, I wonder which one Marner chooses.

Take a break, bud.

 

[deprw]

Always funny to see someone ramble on about something they have no clue about.

A 9.25m market value, "sweetheart" (derp) deal, or sit out the year. Given these two and only these two options, I wonder which one Marner chooses.

Take a break, bud.

Or someone offers him nice offer sheet, when we try to sort out our cap puzzle. Puzzle it would have been, because you don't know outcome of those RFA negotiations before hand and you had zero leverage with Marleau. So you either had that 6,25M in cap or not and negotiated around that. That has no effect to your RFA players. Cap is your problem, they care about their contracts.

We actually had leverage with Marner, when we had around 9,5M cap space for him or couldn't ice full roster, because of that contract. Did that help us one bit?

You can say that Dubas is bad contract negotiator, but it isn't because not using Marleaus contract as leverage. That would have been idiot move from Dubas.

Keep player you don't want in your roster to bully other players to take discounts. So you can play them with player you don't want or need.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

Or someone offers him nice offer sheet, when we try to sort out our cap puzzle. Puzzle it would have been, because you don't know outcome of those RFA negotiations before hand and you had zero leverage with Marleau. So you either had that 6,25M in cap or not and negotiated around that. That has no effect to your RFA players. Cap is your problem, they care about their contracts.

We actually had leverage with Marner, when we had around 9,5M cap space for him or couldn't ice full roster, because of that contract. Did that help us one bit?

You can say that Dubas is bad contract negotiator, but it isn't because not using Marleaus contract as leverage. That would have been idiot move from Dubas.

Keep player you don't want in your roster to bully other players to take discounts. So you can play them with player you don't want or need.

we will know in six years if he overpaid to keep the players happy and show we take care of our stars or if he just overpaid . we paid our stars so what. would it be nice to have another 4-5 mill for another contract sure but not if it meant locking up a ufa at a contract we will regret the following year. you pay your stars and work out the rest

 

[Nithoniniel]

Always funny to see someone ramble on about something they have no clue about.

A 9.25m market value, "sweetheart" (derp) deal, or sit out the year. Given these two and only these two options, I wonder which one Marner chooses.

Take a break, bud.

If that happened, Marner would most likely ask for a trade, and he'd be a lost asset. And for what? A little bit less cap devoted to one of the most irreplaceable players in the league? It's an asinine suggestion that would never ever be applied for any star player in this league.

 

[Judas Tavares]

One argument I find funny is that if the stars are overpaid, then they will only be able to give the minimum/go bargain hunting to/for their 4th liners. But those people complaining about that would be the same people complaining if a 4th liner was given $2 million aka overpaid.

 

[LeafsNation75]

One argument I find funny is that if the stars are overpaid, then they will only be able to give the minimum/go bargain hunting to/for their 4th liners. But those people complaining about that would be the same people complaining if a 4th liner was given $2 million aka overpaid.

Look at the 7 year/$7.14 million AAV the Flyers gave Kevin Hayes after trading for his rights. I rather pay more for Marner who is already more proven.

 

[Eye Test]

Always funny to see someone ramble on about something they have no clue about.

A 9.25m market value, "sweetheart" (derp) deal, or sit out the year. Given these two and only these two options, I wonder which one Marner chooses.

Take a break, bud.

Finally someone with some sense! Lose or damage relationships with our second best player for a 500k - 1mil over pay at the time of signing. If that doesn’t work just let’s just lose a year of marners prime. I like where your heads at.

Pitter patter bud

 

[Ciao]

You never want to make light of a situation like that because it's something we wished never happened. However I wonder how many other players see that and it might convince them to possibly sign in Toronto one day, knowing how great Dubas is for doing something like that.

I wonder as well if it brings home the ever present risk of a career ending injury to the young players who might realize the value of a long term guaranteed contract.

 

[Ciao]

came to post this. man that just got this g.m a lot of brownie points with players after this. what a great gesture by a guy that probably had lots planned for the holiday season

I think he was going on a scouting trip, but he gets full marks and deserves all the credit that comes his way.

 

[Ciao]

If that happened, Marner would most likely ask for a trade, and he'd be a lost asset. And for what? A little bit less cap devoted to one of the most irreplaceable players in the league? It's an asinine suggestion that would never ever be applied for any star player in this league.

I would like this twice if I could.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Always funny to see someone ramble on about something they have no clue about.

A 9.25m market value, "sweetheart" (derp) deal, or sit out the year. Given these two and only these two options, I wonder which one Marner chooses.

Take a break, bud.

What money do you re-sign Kapanen and Johnsson with? The little bit you saved on Marner? Ever notice that Marleau's contract and those two are almost identical? Hmmmm.....two 20 goal rookies or Marleau?

I don't think your negotiation strategies are particularly wise.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I wonder as well if it brings home the ever present risk of a career ending injury to the young players who might realize the value of a long term guaranteed contract.

I believe that Mikheyev is arbitration eligble, although I might be wrong about that. However given what's happened I'm sure Dubas will offer him a fair new contract for next season, so you think he would accept it to have some guarantee for at least next season.

 

[Ciao]

I believe that Mikheyev is arbitration eligble, although I might be wrong about that. However given what's happened I'm sure Dubas will offer him a fair new contract for next season, so you think he would accept it to have some guarantee for at least next season.

I think the Leafs will bend over backwards for Mikheyev now.

 

[Funk21]

It's not a leverage tool because it's good for the team.

Obviously you don’t understand how Time Value of money and inflation works so let me enlighten you:

A dollar is worth more today then it is 5 years from now due to inflation.

What Is Inflation?

Inflation is a quantitative measure of the rate at which the average price level of a basket of selected goods and services in an economy increases over a period of time. It is the constant rise in the general level of prices where a unit of currency buys less than it did in prior periods. Often expressed as a percentage, inflation indicates a decrease in the purchasing power of a nation’s currency.

So if we are giving player A a contract that pays a large sum up front of in the first few years of the contract the players dollars go further or can be invested longer. The player benefits from this option.

The second benefit is how signing bonus money is taxed in the US vs Canada. It’s the main reason why AM spends as little time as possible in the Canada so he can be considered a resident of the USA.

https://ca.rbcwealthmanagement.com/...nals.pdf/0920cb5a-2adf-4666-a451-3659710eece8

 

[The CyNick]

HR violation? This is a professional sports team and it’s the job of the GM to sign the players for as cheap as possible and it’s the players agent to try and get their clients as much as possible. Period. You play with the rules you have. There is a hard cap so you take it from there. What did MacKinnon and Rantanen state publicly that they would be willing to sign for less if it meant they could be winners.

Lou did what in NJ for the past 10 years once he lost Brodeur, absolutely nothing. He saddled us with the 3rd year of Marleau, he handed out the Zaitsev contract and when Shanny decision came down to look to a more innovative GM his pride got in the way and he left for what was a mess in NYI because he would have full authority.

How exactly have Hunter’s picks other than the most obvious ones pan out?

2015
We could have had the 24 overall....
We could have drafted Aho or Carlo at 34, Dermott is a fine player but just saying

2016
Selects Korskov with 31
We could have had Kyrou, DeBrincat, or Hart

Not too mention every big hulking D man he has selected has amount to nothing.

Guy is so overrated, if he was so good why wouldn’t any team hire him as their GM or Scout?

My post was just pointing out your scenario of having all three guys in a room is ludicrous and unprofessional. The thread is not about debating Hunter's track record in hockey or Lou's moves. Happy to contribute to a thread on those topics if you want to start one. Or better yet, save us all some time and use the search function to read my past posts. I highly recommend them.

Let's get back to talking about why you think your put Shanny's ring on the table scenario would end up with the three kids signing team friendly deals. The issue was we put a rookie in charge of those negotiations. No amount of gimmicks or showmanship at the negotiation table would have produced a different result.

On top of that, as I stated it would come off hypocritical coming from Shanny and the GM. Let's just stick to talking about those points for now.

 

[The CyNick]

@Funk21 -- now you made me agree with@The CyNick!

That should tell you how far fetched are your imaginary contract-negotiation strategies!

Everyone comes around to the dark side eventually.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Obviously you don’t understand how Time Value of money and inflation works so let me enlighten you:

A dollar is worth more today then it is 5 years from now due to inflation.

What Is Inflation?

Inflation is a quantitative measure of the rate at which the average price level of a basket of selected goods and services in an economy increases over a period of time. It is the constant rise in the general level of prices where a unit of currency buys less than it did in prior periods. Often expressed as a percentage, inflation indicates a decrease in the purchasing power of a nation’s currency.

So if we are giving player A a contract that pays a large sum up front of in the first few years of the contract the players dollars go further or can be invested longer. The player benefits from this option.

The second benefit is how signing bonus money is taxed in the US vs Canada. It’s the main reason why AM spends as little time as possible in the Canada so he can be considered a resident of the USA.

https://ca.rbcwealthmanagement.com/...nals.pdf/0920cb5a-2adf-4666-a451-3659710eece8

View attachment 301049

Incredible that you could be so condescending while missing his point.

Just because it's good for the players doesn't necessarily make it bad for us. In fact, paying out more early in cash is beneficial for the Leafs. If/when those players are on the trade market, they will have less real dollars owed. Less cash owed to the player makes them a more desirable asset and should result in a better return. Everyone wins.

 

[Funk21]

Incredible that you could be so condescending while missing his point.

Just because it's good for the players doesn't necessarily make it bad for us. In fact, paying out more early in cash is beneficial for the Leafs. If/when those players are on the trade market, they will have less real dollars owed. Less cash owed to the player makes them a more desirable asset and should result in a better return. Everyone wins.

Oh I get the benefits to the team, you don’t need to express that to me. I just think we need to use our financial might to get better terms from the players. There is a reason why players are willing to take a lower AAV in Florida or states with no state tax.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I think the Leafs will bend over backwards for Mikheyev now.

When it's time to negotiate his next contract we can have confidence that Dubas will make sure it gets done.

 

[Ciao]

When it's time to negotiate his next contract we can have confidence that Dubas will make sure it gets done.

I really do think the Leafs will treat this player fairly when his contract comes up.

 

[hotpaws]

When it's time to negotiate his next contract we can have confidence that Dubas will make sure it gets done.

he's an rfa , why would anyone believe we couldn't re sign him ?

 

[stickty111]

Always funny to see someone ramble on about something they have no clue about.

A 9.25m market value, "sweetheart" (derp) deal, or sit out the year. Given these two and only these two options, I wonder which one Marner chooses.

Take a break, bud.

always funny to see someone complain about somebody having no clue, when the person complaining has no idea.
take a break buddy.

 

[LeafsNation75]

he's an rfa , why would anyone believe we couldn't re sign him ?

I never said they wouldn't be able to. My point is that Mikheyev would remember how Dubas helped him during this time and both sides will want an easy negotiation.