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Kyle Dubas Discussion (continued) the 2021 edition

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His recent moves have been impressive:

Kapanen for Amiron and Hallander
Niemela and Hirvonan for Kleven (early indications are good)
Sandin, Robertson draft
Bogosian signing
Thornton signing
Brodie signing
Lehtonen signing
Mikheyev signing

You have to be lucky to be good and even his one blemish turned out great. Rumor was C.Brown was also in the Kadri trade for Brodie and Jankowski. Not sure how the sens deal unloading Zaitsev would've went down without Brown, prob needed a different asset. Jankowski was a dud and benched in the Playoffs eventually Calgary let him walk in the offseason. Leafs of course received Barrie and Kerfoot... Kerfoot is a good 3rd line center.. leafs let Barrie walk and picked up Brodie in the offseason. Leafs ended up with Brodie and Kerfoot for Kadri which is far and wide better than both the Colorado deal and Calgary deal.

I'm a believer.... it is one thing to have a great group of young players who can win, but its another to have it and keep the cupboard relatively full. Dubas appears to be filling it back up, while Hunter and Lou let it get pretty empty.
 
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It's actually incredible the job Dubas has done, when you consider he didn't have the benefit of elite players on ELCs like Lou did, and he's still managed to upgrade the team from top to bottom, adding both more elite talent and more depth, making it more skilled, faster, better defensively, and bigger, too.




Lou's Leafs → Dubes' Leafs

(Asterisk = Entry Level Contract)
(Bold = replaced player)

Matthews* 20yrs, 6'3"/220 → Matthews 23yrs, 6'3"/220
Marner* 20yrs, 6'0"/175 → Marner 23yrs, 6'0"/175
Nylander* 21yrs, 6'0"/195 → Nylander 24yrs, 6'0"/195

Kadri 27yrs, 6'0"/190 → Tavares 30yrs, 6'1"/215
Hyman 25yrs, 6'1"/210 → Hyman 28yrs, 6'1"/210
VanRiemsdyk 28yrs, 6'3"/215 → Mikheyev 26yrs, 6'3"/195

Bozak 31yrs, 6'1"/200 → Kerfoot 26yrs, 5'11"/185
Marleau 38yrs, 6'2"/215 → Thornton 41yrs, 6'4"/220
Brown 23yrs, 6'0"/185 → Vesey 27yrs, 6'3"/205

Plekanec 35yrs, 5'11"/190 → Spezza 37yrs, 6'3"/215
Komarov 30yrs, 5'11"/210 → Simmonds 32yrs, 6'2"/210
Moore 37yrs, 6'0"/190 → Boyd 27yrs, 6'0"/190

Gauthier 23yrs, 6'5"/235 → Engvall 24yrs, 6'5"/215
Kapanen* 21yrs, 6'1"/195 → Robertson* 19yrs, 5'9"/165
Johnsson* 23yrs, 5'10"/195 → Barabanov* 26yrs, 5'11"/195
Leivo 24yrs, 6'2"/195 → Anderson 22yrs, 5'11"/190



Rielly 23yrs, 6'1"/215 → Rielly 26yrs, 6'1"/215
Gardiner 27yrs, 6'2"/205 → Muzzin 31yrs, 6'3"/215

Hainsey 36yrs, 6'3"/205 → Brodie 30yrs, 6'1"/185
Zaitsev 26yrs, 6'2"/190 → Holl 28yrs, 6'4"/210

Dermott* 21yrs, 6'1"/205 → Dermott 24yrs, 6'1"/205
Polak 31yrs, 6'2"/240 → Bogosian 30yrs, 6'3"/225

Carrick* 23yrs, 5'11"/190 → Lehtonen* 26yrs, 6'0"/195
Borgman* 22yrs, 6'0"/200 → Sandin* 20yrs, 5'11"/185



Anderson 28yrs → Anderson 31yrs
McElhinney 34yrs → Campbell 28yrs
Pickard 25yrs → Dell 31yrs

​
Last year was tainted by a big dip in goaltending (which will likely correct itself), massive injuries (which will likely correct themselves), and an inexplicable self-immolation by Mad Coach Babcock (which has already been corrected).....but we really shouldn't let that taint the pretty incredible job Dubey has done.

And now we really get to see the benefits when the next wave of ELCs start rolling into the lineup - Robertson, Sandin, Amirov, Liljegren, Hirvonen, Neimola, etc. over the next few years.
 
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Hunter and Lou let the cupboard get empty?

New Years Eve started early?
 
Reply to JT AM da real deal

I put Gretz and Lemieux on my list because well, they are the best and I think that they would totally make players like the Rocket look like an amateur, though the rocket might knock out some of their teeth, Gordie is another ball of wax....however to say that Bobby Clarke and Wendel Clark or Bobby Orr wouldn't go into the corners with the same tenacity as Gordie or the Rocket etc. Ill take that bet.
 
I wonder if Santa brought him a new pair of non-prescription glasses for Christmas.

I hope we get off to a good start, the media will not be kind to the Canadian teams who miss the playoffs. In our case specifically, the lynch lob would be at his door in short order if we get off to a rough start.
 
Menzinger said:
Do you think the Leafs drafted well, outside of the top 5 in that 2015-17 period?
Click to expand...

Weird question to answer considering none of Dubas' picks outside of the top 5 (except for Sandin) have played a single game in the NHL. So, you can't win that argument.

Unless you are invoking paranormal forces to predict the future... which... is.... uh.... dumb.

Do you think drafting in the top rounds is better than trading away draft picks?
 
Pookie said:
Do you think drafting is better than trading away draft picks?
Click to expand...
You want to talk about Dubas trading away draft picks, just look at the picks Lamoriello had traded away like they were nothing. For example he traded away 2nd round picks in 2017 and 2018 for Brian Boyle and Tomas Plekenace.

At least Dubas made a smart move when he traded their 1st round pick in 2019 for Jake Muzzin who was not a rental.

Now before you say he traded their 2020 1st round pick to Carolina, yes that's true and it was to get rid of Patrick Marleau's contract which Lamoriello was responsible for. However at least he got back a 2020 1st round pick from Pittsburgh in the Kapanen trade and it only ended up being two spots down from where the Leafs pick ended up. So it's fair to say Dubas might still select Amirov 13th overall instead of 15th overall.
 
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Pookie said:
Weird question to answer considering none of Dubas' picks outside of the top 5 (except for Sandin) have played a single game in the NHL. So, you can't win that argument.

Unless you are invoking paranormal forces to predict the future... which... is.... uh.... dumb.

Do you think drafting in the top rounds is better than trading away draft picks?
Click to expand...
A large percentage of Dubas' picks are tracking better than anyone drafted outside of the 1st round by Lou/Hunter.

And Lou traded away multiple picks for rentals while Dubas has maximized value by doing trade down scenarios, acquiring multiple picks and keeping the prospect pool looking deep as those picks are looking great. Even with 2 first rounders traded by Dubas the pool still looks good. Under Lou/Hunter the pool was starting to empty.
 
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acrobaticgoalie said:
A large percentage of Dubas' picks are tracking better than anyone drafted outside of the 1st round by Lou/Hunter.

And Lou traded away multiple picks for rentals while Dubas has maximized value by doing trade down scenarios, acquiring multiple picks and keeping the prospect pool looking deep as those picks are looking great. Even with 2 first rounders traded by Dubas the pool still looks good. Under Lou/Hunter the pool was starting to empty.
Click to expand...

Of course. Our pool is obviously better than anyone else’s pool..... because.... well.... it’s our pool.

It’s way too premature to give him a drafting trophy when only 1 player has played in the NHL.
 
Pookie said:
Of course. Our pool is obviously better than anyone else’s pool..... because.... well.... it’s our pool.

It’s way too premature to give him a drafting trophy when only 1 player has played in the NHL.
Click to expand...
Not including Auston Matthews or Mitch Marner who were obvious selections when they were drafted, the only player who Lamoriello and Hunter were responsible for drafting after the 1st round was Travis Dermott. So don't go giving the drafting trophy to them as well.
 
LeafsNation75 said:
Not including Auston Matthews or Mitch Marner who were obvious selections when they were drafted, the only player who Lamoriello and Hunter were responsible for drafting after the 1st round was Travis Dermott. So don't go giving the drafting trophy to them as well.
Click to expand...

Fair point.

Look, it’s way too early to compare the success of draft picks. I mean Lou/Hunter also brought in Timashov and Grundstrom who were moved.

who knows. If this is important, we should start a thread 5 years from now.

I also would love to know the make up of the draft department during Lou and after Lou. If the only departure was Hunter... this whole discussion on draft picks is silly. It would basically be the same bloody department which means the only difference is in the eyes of fans vs reality.

I’ve got more important things to do like finish this whiskey and I’m sure you do too.
 
Pookie said:
Fair point.

Look, it’s way too early to compare the success of draft picks. I mean Lou/Hunter also brought in Timashov and Grundstrom who were moved.

who knows. If this is important, we should start a thread 5 years from now.

I also would love to know the make up of the draft department during Lou and after Lou. If the only departure was Hunter... this whole discussion on draft picks is silly. It would basically be the same bloody department which means the only difference is in the eyes of fans vs reality.

I’ve got more important things to do like finish this whiskey and I’m sure you do too.
Click to expand...
Timashov only played 39 games for Toronto before Detroit claimed him off waivers.

Grundstrom never played any games for the Maple Leafs when Dubas traded him to Los Angeles, so it doesn't matter that he's played 28 games for the Kings.

So I stand by my previous comment about Dermott being the only one who made the NHL full time after he was called up in January 2018.
 
LeafsNation75 said:
Timashov only played 39 games for Toronto before Detroit claimed him off waivers.

Grundstrom never played any games for the Maple Leafs when Dubas traded him to Los Angeles, so it doesn't matter that he's played 28 games for the Kings.

So I stand by my previous comment about Dermott being the only one who made the NHL full time after he was called up in January 2018.
Click to expand...

that’s fine. Review this again in 5 years.

stay safe brother.
 
Pookie said:
Hunter and Lou let the cupboard get empty?

New Years Eve started early?
Click to expand...

Pookie said:
Weird question to answer considering none of Dubas' picks outside of the top 5 (except for Sandin) have played a single game in the NHL. So, you can't win that argument.

Unless you are invoking paranormal forces to predict the future... which... is.... uh.... dumb.

Do you think drafting in the top rounds is better than trading away draft picks?
Click to expand...

Pookie said:
Of course. Our pool is obviously better than anyone else’s pool..... because.... well.... it’s our pool.

It’s way too premature to give him a drafting trophy when only 1 player has played in the NHL.
Click to expand...

I never said our pool is better than anyone else's, so I don't know where you're getting that from. You tried to make a sarcastic remark about hunter/ Lou emptying the cupboards which is a fact as I and others already pointed out.

Where have all these guys gone in the last 5 years?

Korshkov
Rasanen
Middleton
Grundstrom
Gordeev
Walker
Deroschers
Bobylev
Chebykin
Bracco
Brooks
Timashov
Kara
McGregor
O'Connell
Greenway
Mattinen
Nielsen
Dzierkals
Lindgren

Again. Lou traded away picks for rental players and the picks we did have have been a total waste.

Our last 3 drafts under Dubas/Lilley have many players having noteworthy seasons and are comparing well to NHL players' post draft seasons.
 
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